Chicagoist: Goodbye Uptown Snack Shop

Folksy Spook

Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:55:23 -0600

Dear condo owner nomad: impressive list! and you got yourself a deal. I'll tell you Honolulu, if you tell me New Orleans! And Speaking of "Naw Leans".A Friday story. Not germane but fun still the same!There's an old saying down there. So there are three types of Yankees: An O.K Yankee is a northerner who goes down to Nawleans, spends some money,and leaves A bad Yankee is a northerner who goes down to Nawleans and stays. A good Yankee is a northerner who goes down to Nawleans, gets the bad Yankee and takes them home! now speaking of drinks.....bye now

condo owner nomad

Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:55:40 -0600

"How bout the three of you go back to the suburban cities of Saferville, Smuckburg, and Skunkie and I'll flip for the Metra tickets and a Bud lite each for the ride?" Spookums, I have lived in the following places: Honolulu (1 year) Seattle (1 year) Charleston, SC (3 years) Honolulu (5 years) San Diego (4 years) Fairfax, VA (2 years) Baltimore (5 years) Washington, DC (4 years) Chicago (8 years) I am white with some freckles, Irish and German. I am a Libra. I went to college and work in an office building behind a desk. Sometimes I drink Tecate. Other times Bells Stout. I have been on the Metra a couple times. My family are south siders and make fun of me because they think I live in Wrigleyville but I live three miles north of there. Please tell me where you have deemed in your supreme wisdom and knowledge where I should move back to (I'm hoping you say Honolulu!). 'Preciate it. Mahalo.

ready for the weelend Spook!

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:19:29 -0600

Dear“s”: Of course I expect you to agree with those supercilious twits. This is America after all and you are just another blind sheep. Course I’m sure you know your Simpson’s episodes! And of course I don’t expect you to "get" that realistate speculation is separate from the “gettoization” of a community, especially in the short run and even in the long run. Hence I can afford a condo in the Barrios of a Logan Square, (yes sad to say we do have a starbucks) but can’t afford a Grey Stone (yet) in wilrd jungles of Garfield Park. Both hoods are still ghetto,-Garfield Park more so- i.e. majority low income population, lack of basic services including large grocery stores, banks as opposed to currency exchanges and pay day loan shops, combined with under performing schools, high drop out rates etc, etc. What this means is that now even Chicago Ghettos are becoming unaffordable to the masses. But that’s another can of worms. How bout dose Bearrs!

jon

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 22:13:59 -0600

crazies_out- I was using your use of "unpretentious" as a good thing. Those complaining about the loss of an unpretentious place and its replacement with condos are acting pretentious. Thats the irony i saw there. Nothing in what you said :)

s

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:49:16 -0600

I gotta agree... spook is a nimrod... Spook, where do you live that is so "ghetto" but has people buying into condos... it would seem to me that if you really lived in a "ghetto" neighborhood you'd be able to afford an entire house/building for the price of a condo in this city.. I am struggling with this right now. I live in one of the up and coming hoods, and the price of a condo seems to me outrageous. If I lived here 5 years ago I could have bought a multi-unit flat for the same price as condos are going for now.

Laughing because you must be joking

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:54:36 -0600

He's right, guys, we should get out of here--I guess there's no place in this hard-luck town for non-bottle-hurling, straight, white-collar shlubs like us ... Wait--what's that? Is that a Starbucks opening in Spook's neighborhood?? Scrap the white flight, boys! Someone get me a real estate agent, stat!

NSH

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:53:54 -0600

Tell you what Spock, next time I run into Lonnie Brooks or Harry Porterfield, I'll remind them to renew their KKK cards, cause you know you gotta be racist if you live in Beverly, boss. Now should they renew with you, or your mother? And why do you call yourself Spook, Spock? You're obviously 14 and white.

Philanthropic Spook

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:46:51 -0600

How bout the three of you go back to the suburban cities of Saferville, Smuckburg, and Skunkie and I'll flip for the Metra tickets and a Bud lite each for the ride?

condo owner

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:17:01 -0600

If you ignore Spook/Baltimore/City Scape, he won't go away.

Laughing because you must be joking

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:54:16 -0600

Hands down, the biggest nimrod here. Or so a buddy of mine says.

NSH

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:46:45 -0600

Spook, you're an absolute nimrod.

crazies_out

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:33:00 -0600

Um jon, my post was the only one to use the word 'unpretentious', in stating that simple, welcoming diners are a good thing to have around (and thereby also implying that some 'joints' ARE pretentious, which I think is inarguable) and I think I put forth a pretty unmistakeably pro-development rant. So...what are you talking about?

NSH

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:04:16 -0600

What is the saturation point of this condo mess? When does supply overtake demand? Condos all over the city are being built and "flipped" like stock market transactions without anyone ever taking occupancy. This type of behavior can only happen for so long. I'm a little worried for the neighborhoods that have put growth in front of everything which has led to a very profitable yet very volatile real estate market. Those who said this is good for Uptown, you are probably right, but Wicker Park, Bucktown, South Loop where every new building being built is a condo, I'm a little worried folks.

Laughing because you must be joking

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:52:13 -0600

Spook, wow, you sound like a complete asshole. Please pull your tongue out of your cheek and tell us you're kidding! What would the ramifications be if I said "certain people" just "belong" on the South Side? Those whiny accountants and corporate minions have jobs in your--our--city. Kids can be raised here, like they can't in a lot of other cities. If your pride comes from your ignorance, so be it. At least I know to stay away from your neighborhood.

Spook telling in to Go

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:21:17 -0600

A: Gew up in Chicago- mostly -except for school B.If I saw any Friends or Sex in the City like characters outside my window in the ghetto condo I would pelt them with beer bottles and of course I'm sure the Latin Kings would incorporate them into a Latin King style episode of friends. Of course I would also call the police because if they were in my neighborhood, then they are buying heroine from the Latin Kings C. I've been physically assaulted, fought back, had the fools arrested, went to court and played the scarred yuppie rule infront of the judge to maximize their sentences, while winking at the thugs when no one was looking D. Don't rent, and services as President of my Ghetto Condo Board E. Attend all of my CAPS Meetings in the spring and summer F. I still proudly tells people to move to Naperville/ Schaumburg. Come on now, certain people just BELONG there! Just like certain people BELONG in Lincoln Park until they have a bunch of whiny future accountants or other corporate minion- like their parents- kids and move to Naperville or Schaumburg.

jkt

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:17:18 -0600

j, I hear you. However, the response you're going to get to that is "move to the southside". Of course, if everyone moved to the southside it would push up prices and eventually all you could afford would be condos on the southside, too. I too am curious as to what the "condos are the scourge of the earth" people expect everyone who doesn't want to rent for life to do (besides move to the suburbs...the cheap suburbs, that is).

Spook telling in to Go

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:17:03 -0600

j

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:29:12 -0600

also, regarding the "I hate condos" statement - what options are there for someone who doesn't want to pay someone elses' mortgage? i know i certainly can't afford the $700,000 minimum it would cost to buy a single family home on the north side of the city...

jon

Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:26:18 -0600

how predicatable.. chicagoist bitching about the scourge that is condos on city of chicago! if it wasn't for the growth of the condo market (and the accompanying influx of younger people into the city), i'm sure that the "artistic" types that author this blog would still probably be living in the burbs, close to mom and dad. i have seen the word "unpretentious" used in reminiscing about the uptown snack shop. complaining about the natural growth of the city, including all its ebbs and flows of the housing market, is about as "pretentious" as it gets. the city will keep doing what it will do. if there wasn't enough demand for condos, then they wouldn't get built. simple as that. living a few blocks away from the uptown snack shop, i gotta say - never even crossed my mind to go in. so can't say i'll miss it. nor did it ever seem busy when i walked past it. yet, the blogs can't stop crying about it! le sigh...

crazies_out

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 17:47:23 -0600

The Uptown Snack Shop was never on my to do list, but I used to frequent similar diners in other neighborhoods and I think unpretentious neighborhood joints are a great thing. That said, as a current Uptown resident, I can say that I'm perfectly happy for more condos to spring up even though I currently rent. Sure, many of them are abominations aesthetically speaking, yet they are desperately needed if Uptown is ever going to become a stable community. Currently I live close to Irving Park where sanity generally prevails, but when I was near Wilson, I often considered paying the outrageous sum needed to break my lease, just so I could flee that horrid place. So many broken people dumped in a small area is never a good thing, contrary to what supporters of Schillerville USA would have folks believe. It doesn't help that many of the do gooder programs in the area simply enable and validate lives in perpetual decline instead of really helping these people help themselves. This area is truly a place where inmates run the asylum. The fault really isn't even due to the presence of large numbers of poor people, as there are legions of working class people in the area who bust their asses every day to provide for their families. Yet they are rarely mentioned when do-gooder types rail against the gentrification of the area. No, instead they focus on the people who make Uptown nearly unlivable. Those dregs who make the short walk from the red line, Broadway, or the buses on Clarendon a miserable exercise. Those who, quite frankly, are a massive waste of time and effort. There are so many children in this city, hell in the Uptown neighborhood, who need activities and role models, yet Uptown is a magnet for every loser with a messianic complex. With some more development mixed with an eye for economic diversity (That is people with lower paying jobs living next door to people with higher paying jobs, as opposed to people at the methadone clinic living next to people with lower paying jobs), maybe Uptown could be both vital and safe. So please, yes, more condos, more businesses, more entertainment venues, more opportunity for anyone who wants it.

condo owner

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:48:22 -0600

Anonymous, I likely misread the intended message in your 'Naperville' email. I believe I jumped to a conclusion and thought your point was that people who own condos and/or do not decry the improvements in Uptown (this is NOT including the demise of the Snack Shop) should all just move to Napperville. My apologies.

dave

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:39:13 -0600

Oh, I know, CO--just riffing on the 'cast of Friends'line. With your handle, I had a feeling you might be a condo owner.

condo owner

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:36:33 -0600

Dave, I wasn't knocking condo owners (I am one) ... just the people who say things like "move to Schaumburg." In my experience, they usually live in places like Wicker Park or the Southport area ... places that I love, but also places where certain (not all) people can live in relative security and insulation from the other grittier areas they then half-assedly rush to defend ... then the lament over gentrification and condos. Not all condos are good but not all condos are bad either. There are some associations in my neighborhood that are 20-plus years old. My association is over ten years old and my building was built in the late teens. And there's the whole in-unit laundry thing.

Anonymous

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:30:19 -0600

(a) didn't grow up in Chicago. I did. (b) live in a neighborhood where they can look outside their window and, as a friend of mine puts it, "see the cast of Friends." No, I see public housing, but my neighborhood is getting there. (c) have not yet been unfortunate to be robbed or physically assaulted. I have, raped. (d) rent, no kids. own, no kids. (e) have never been to a CAPS meeting. true, I have not. But I have been to my condo board meetings.

NSH

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:14:33 -0600

attaboy

dave

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:04:41 -0600

Baby steps, NSH. First, I work on the accent. Then I finally watch the Blues Brothers. After taking a gangster tour bus ride, eating a Polish, and yelling WOOOOOOOO at the corner of State and Division at 4am, *then* it's bungalow time.

NSh

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:01:59 -0600

dave you can always become a true chicagoan and buy a bungalow on the sw side

dave

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:58:47 -0600

Pressed the Post button too quickly ... I meant to mention that the impact of these condos, ugly or otherwise, is that people who want to buy and stay in the city now have that option--I could buy a pretty sweet house outside of the city. I work 40 miles north of here, and my fiance works 40 miles NW. But we choose to live here because we love it here--but we'd be priced out, or have to live away from the parts of town we like, without something like a condo. We may look like extras on Friends--haha, Condo Owner--but it doesn't make us love or appreciate the city any less.

sb

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:58:09 -0600

so when are we going to get started on this robot?

dave

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:52:54 -0600

There are some good points on both sides here ... it's too bad that "condo" is such a derrogatory word, but you can blame that on the lack of art in the architecture. Before I started looking at one to buy, all I could imagine were those horrid high-rises along LSD. (There are some in the Gold Coast and Streeterville that, while too expensive for a lot of budgets, at least look like there was some thought put into the impact on the skyline.) But I've come to find that so many condos can be found in older apartment buildings. Where else can someone with less than $300k to spend find a decent dwelling? What do the condo-haters do, rent all their lives? When you're hovering around 30 and decide to stop pissing money away on someone else's property, but decide that you want to stay in the city, you don't have a ton of options. As for erasing history with condos, it really is too bad--too bad that somewhere like The Uptown Snack Shop can't survive in the wake of so-called gentrification and development. But someone had to make way for the Uptown; someday the condos will be replaced, to make way for whatever counts as progress at that point in time.

condo owner

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:43:58 -0600

In my experience, the people who say things like "move to Naperville/Schaumburg/et al": (a) didn't grow up in Chicago. (b) live in a neighborhood where they can look outside their window and, as a friend of mine puts it, "see the cast of Friends." (c) have not yet been unfortunate to be robbed or physically assaulted. (d) rent, no kids. (e) have never been to a CAPS meeting. But what do I know. Like Anonymous, I'm just generalizing.

Anonymous

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:00:13 -0600

I'd like to talk to you all when you have abandoned the city for naperville.

NSH

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:39:57 -0600

What I actually do as a concerned citizen is attend community meetings whenever a property tries to rezone in my neighborhood, luckily I have an alderman who will publicize such meetings. I've been to three. Spoke up against one development and went in favor of two developments. The alderman nixed one development, neighbors of one of the other developments would not sign off on a zoning change, and the last one is underway. So call your alderman would be my suggestion, it works in my ward.

condo owner

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:21:48 -0600

1. Uptown is not overpopulated. It is a dense north lakefront neighborhood with tons of public transpo. 2. I'm sad to see the Uptown Snack Shop go. We need more places like this, not fewer. 3. I have no problem with condos. I live in one. I know all my neighbors, go to CAPS meetings and belong to my block club. Most renters in my neighborhood are the ones who don't get very involved, which is a shame. 4. Spread the Uptown shelters, subsidized, mentally-ill, section 8 and sex offender housing to other parts of the city other than the far north lakefront. Uptown is a dumping ground for problems. Anyone objecting to evil condos and the gentrification of Uptown or Edgewater is invited to walk up and down Kenmore or Winthrop tonight. Or hang out in my neighborhood on Thorndale with the blunt-smoking thugs. Or wait for the 36 bus at Montrose and Broadway.

sb

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:20:38 -0600

we need to construct a bullet train that stretches to central iowa. i'm thinking some sort of forced relocation program. we could do a lottery. (we've got to fuel this sprawl people!)everyone allowed to remain in the city would be subject to mandatory product testing. (you wouldn't want to use products tested on animals, would you?) then we take the money earned from the product testing and further fuel the sprawl by investing in startbuck's franchises. we take the cash from our starbuck's enterprise and build a gigantic robot to fight off the robot that milwaukee's building. (you know they are!) after the milwaukee robot has been vanquished we send the robot on a mission to restore our reputation as the #3 city in amercia. (look out dallas/ft. worth, atlanta, houston, las vegas, boston, and san francisco!) once we've restored our dignity as the #3 city in america (say it with me: we're #3! we're #3!) we'll release the reality tv show we were filming throughout this whole process. the show will dominate the rating, causing new york and california to drop into the ocean. by this time chicago will occupy all of illinois, parts of kentucky, indiana, iowa, missouri, wisconsin, minnesota, and ohio. we'll declare ourselves the #1 city in the world, re-rename marshall's fields "marshall fields," reopen the berghoff, figure out how to get cement to stop falling off of wrigley field, rename us cellular field comiskey park, save the uptown snack shop, fix the cta's budget problems, drive corruption out of city hall, make all of the busses run on time, re-elect mayor daley, put in bike lanes everywhere, provide all instructions in english and spanish, and make commonwealth edison pick up all signs and/or barricades they've been leaving all over the place as of late. this my friends, is my vision for how to make chicago a better place.

Thad

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 13:38:28 -0600

NSH: I know the complaint. And while it may be "called overpopulating an area" (interesting, given that the city is well below previous population levels), one might also call it, with as much accuracy, "building the tax base." Do you have any ideas? Any at all? Or just complaints? I'm in favor of a bit more property tax relief for owners of buildings that have apartment rentals, for one. I would like to see the city administration focus less on tourist spots--they seem healthy enough--and put more of the redevelopment money into neighborhoods, perhaps especially poorer ones with ample stock of single-family homes. I would like to see zoning reform (but I think the city just did a big update of its zoning laws, right?), or least adherence to existing zoning rules. I would like to see TIF used for truly blighted areas, to help bring jobs to the truly dire parts of the city. I would like to see more school reform to help keep families without astronomical incomes here in Chicago instead of inspiring them to move to the 'burbs. I also would like to see more state and, especially, fed subsidies for public transportation, based on the theory that ample public transport is key to helping keep poorer people in this city. Perhaps these are all small or overly idealistic steps, but maybe they would help a bit. What do you have, NSH?

NSH

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:39:35 -0600

Thad it's called overpopulating an area. It leads to disease no parking and rats.

navin

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:34:21 -0600

I am all for tearing down crappy buildings. So you must mean that you're for tearing down poorly built condos seing as the most cheapest most shoddily built buildings ARE condos. re solutions. I personally don't mind condos being built especially on already existing vacant lots and there are tons of those. I would like to see them have to be somewhat in scale with the other buildings on the block, not set back so far from the sidewalk, not having entrances that don't face the street, not having garages that face the street, not looking like they were designed by the worst architects in the world etc. etc.

Thad

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:08:38 -0600

One on hand, I fear the changes taking place to Uptown and many other neighborhoods, which may make it harder for low-and middle-income people to live in Chicago over the longer term. On the other, I am happy that people still want to plop down decent sums of money and put some roots in this city, actions that help protect the tax base. I'm also happy the city still has the energy to change, instead of rot and decay, even if some changes mean gentrification and less diversity in certain areas. That said, for all those who complain about the rising number of condos, what would you do to change the situation? What is your solution? I don't mean to be an asshole; rather, I just want to know more about solutions than complaints and nostalgia. Would you push for more zoning reform? Or perhaps expanded homebuyers' programs that target those with lower incomes? Something else? How would you pay for it? Who should push it--local, state, feds? I don't pretend to know, but I'm interested in ideas.

Anonymous

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:06:57 -0600

I live in a condo. I was born and raised in the city. I am all for tearing down crappy buildings.

sb

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:35:58 -0600

inre: the berghoff, i'm sure that this sentiment has been echoed here or elsewhere, but why's everyone so upset about losing a pretty so-so german restaurant? i understand the historic nature of the place, but still, it really wasn't all that. i've never been to the uptown snack shop so i can't get too upset about losing it. but i hate to see anything go away to make room for condos.

spook

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:49:59 -0600

My bad. I thought it was there policy that all wait staff and bartenders were male.

NSH

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:34:22 -0600

I am in aggreeance with everyone else who hates condos. Aren't there density restrictions on neighborhoods anymore?

FernLaPlante

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:31:38 -0600

When I was at the Berghoff our waitress was "of color" so I am not sure what poster "spook" is referring to. As for the Uptown Snack Shop, the owner(s) must have sold the business to a developer for a large sum of money so I can't be too sad but it does stink for the community. I hate condos.

Spook

Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:06:04 -0600

As far as the Berghoff goes, even though the last time I was there, my boss took me to announce my raise,That place still always pushed my creepa meter into the red!. Good riddance! No women or people of color working on the front line, creepy suburbanites and old people. Kinda made me think of prewar Nazi Germany. If I want German food there are plenty of other more colorful spots on the Northwestside( with out the Marathon Man Movie feeling) and the beer is not that good! Yea I know those people that worship the Marshall Fields "tradition" will be "outraged" but like that old Hoodoo saying goes "The only souls that fear change are ghosts" But I am a bit sad to hear about the Uptown Snack Shop making way for Condos. I was only there once, but it seemed like a whole Community joint on the cheap with a cap.C for Community