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Hard though it may be to believe, occasionally we at Chicagoist carry differing viewpoints. These tend to manifest themselves most strongly when it comes to discussion of the arts, though we have learned that the way to resolve contrasting opinions need not be through a duel to the death. Anymore.
So with that in mind, we decided to hand associate editor Scott Smith and music critic Tankboy each a copy of the new Catfish Haven disc in advance of their CD release show at Double Door Saturday night.
Dear Tankboy,
Since everyone else has weighed in on the new Catfish Haven album, we ought to as well. Especially since their show is this weekend, and our earlier conversations about it prove that you have no idea what you're talking about.
I'll cop to a bias right away: I love soul music and I'm coming off a recent trip to Memphis. So the walking bass lines, horns and swamp boogie rhythms of Tell Me didn't have to do much to catch my ear. Maybe I've heard too many artists that are trying to convince me that they're reinventing Echo and the Bunnymen, but the straightforward earnestness of a band that isn't afraid to dig into rough and sloppy grooves is refreshing.
"Don't Worry" is a hot rave-up right at the start that slides into some Dion and the Belmonts-style doo-wop with the title track. Most of the other tracks here had me wanting to do "the Pony" and consume some damn fine barbecue.
Scott
I think part of the problem is that EVERYONE does seem to have already offered his or her opinion of Catfish Haven. Unfortunately, most of this opining has served to paint the band in a slightly disingenuous picture. I mean, I dig soul music but if you want a band unafraid to dig into sloppy grooves without sounding redundant, might I suggest something from Pavement's back catalog?
Sorry, that was a bit off-track, huh?
Okay, so I'm listening to "Crazy For Leaving" and while it's certainly a harmless little tune, it's the same sort of song I've heard recreated by countless bands in any number of suburban strip mall music clubs. So this leads me to question whether we're dealing with a truly refreshing band, or whether we're dealing with a particularly effective publicist.
This sort of music usually wouldn't get word one on Pitchfork or Stereogum, yet both sites have gone gaga over Catfish Haven. In doing so, they've set up expectations for a band of great import and what we actually get is yet another competent white-boy soul act.
I've got nothing against barbecue, just don't try to sell it to me as Kobe beef.
Luv,
Tankboy
I'm not going to get into the whole notion of whether or not something should or shouldn't be reviewed—or how that happens (ending up on Secretly Canadian doesn't hurt). I think everything's worthy of a critical view and the CH boys are building a buzz here so it's worth investigating further.
I was a fan of their last album, but thought it was guilty of the criticisms you lay out here. It's partly why I like this album, since I can hear the growth. Tell Me isn't a perfect record, of course. Some of the latter tracks noodle around a bit too much, and aren't as tight as the earlier songs.
But having seen a few blues-rock bands in my own time, I know it's a lot harder than it looks to even sound "competent." Catfish Haven actually bespeaks authenticity, and since none of them were born on the bayou, that's a pretty impressive feat.
With warmest regards,
Scott
I never said that Catfish haven shouldn't be reviewed, I was merely questioning the reams of praise that keep coming their way. I've listened to this disc over and over and over again, hoping to hear some of the same things you've mentioned, and I just don't hear it. What I do hear is a nice, inoffensive group of musicians, making nice, inoffensive music. Honestly, this sort of thing is lovely but I really don't think it's worthy of all the attention it's been receiving.
Unless, of course, this is preceding another indie rock backlash, wherein it will suddenly be cool to listen to The Dave Matthews Band and other "competent" groups that do nothing new musically and continue to shamelessly mine some sort of Motown-lite vein. Actually, if this disc was even a pale imitation of soul music, I might have enjoyed it more. However, a few smidgens of "soulful" blues-rock licks mired in a mix dominated by acoustic guitar-driven coffeehouse rock is barely even an imitation.
I wish our local boys well, I really do, just don't try and sell this as anything other than some 'XRT-friendly AC or I'm liable to get testy.
Stax of respect,
Tankboy
Decide for yourself who's right. Double Door hosts Catfish Haven's CD release party this Saturday, September 16th at 10 p.m. with Secretly Canadian labelmates Someone Still Loves You Boris Yeltsin and Birdmonster opening. Tickets are $10.
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Gentlemen-
Having never heard their music, I have no opinion of Catfish Haven. However, I will say that I like the format of this post- it's always much more interesting to get a back-and-forth discussion of music rather than one reviewer's opinion.
You should do this type of duel more often (it has the added benefit of being less bloody tha the real thing).
you both wrote these in the nude, didn't you....
That was kind of sexy you two.
i second all of the above comments.
I would pay lots of money to watch Scott do the pony.
Oh man, I am chomping at the bit to join this one.
To clarify, Scott, George was indeed "born on the bayou" - in the Missouri trailer park that gave Catfish Haven its name.
Now, Tankboy...give me a couple of examples of the "competent white boy soul" acts that you feel CH is on par with, and I'll tell you why that's poppycock.
Finally, the PR machine behind Catfish Haven is...Catfish Haven. While being on a progressive indie with a roster of blog darlings is certainly an advantage, George, Miguel, and Ryan are tirelessly offering access to themselves and their music in ways very few artists do. There's no pretense, no posturing...just an affable group of guys who will make you dance til you sweat through your ironic tshirt and then challenge you to shotgun cans of PBR in front of a writer for Stereogum.
It's no wonder people WANT to write about them - they're in it for the love of making music and don't take themselves too seriously, yet everyone I've played "Tell Me" for (from my rocker rommate to my pop-country loving mom) has fallen under Catfish Haven's swampy spell.
Does accessibility automatically equal conventionality? Not in my experience.
Oh, and Tankboy - if Catfish Haven is "coffehouse rock," I'd REALLY like to know where they get their coffee!
lk
Sarah, do you have a price point in mind? Because that can be arranged.
Not nude. But I was wearing a smoking jacket and Tankboy was wearing a gladiator costume.
I trumpet their authenticity above, but technically "the bayou" is the Gulf Coast region of the U.S. running from Texas to Alabama.
Lizz, keep in mind that a piece of musical criticism has nothing to do with what a bunch of affable guys CH are. I'm sure they're super-nice, and I bet they put on a good live show. But that's not what I'm reviewing here. My only point of reference, and the only one that I should be employing, is their debut and the expectations it raised versus the product actually delivered.
Since you work in marketing, I'm surprised that you don't know that the band does in fact have a publicist on the payroll, and, honestly, if it weren't for that publicist, they wouldn't have received a fraction of the press they have.
(However, it doesn't hurt that they live in Chicago, know influential types (like you) and befriended a certain Chicago webzine a while ago. That helped, and I will credit those strides forward to their tenacity and self-promotion.)
And of course accessibility doesn't equal conventionality. Anyone who's read a fraction of my writing would know O often trumpet bands that fit mainly within the mainstream.
In this case, though, I see no difference between these cats any any other earnest group you might see at Cubby Bear, Joe's or Durty Nellies on any given evening.
I won't comment on the nudity, doin' the Pony, smoking jackets or gladitor costumes as that would make for a heck of a long comment! It's always nice to see Chicago bands show up on other blogs and websites. More power to them, and only based on the couple of times I've seen them they did not blow me away. They seem to be a bit better than some other locals, but not by much.
Ok, Jim…while this is a fun exercise and a new twist on the typical format of music journalism on Chicagoist, I’d hesitate to call it “musical criticism.” Not for lack of quality, mind you, but because it’s more of a friendly debate about the power of buzz than a critical examination of the album.
You’re also taking me way too literally. Obviously I’m aware that both the band and the label employ professional publicists; I wanted to point out that an artist's (positive) relationship with the world outside the web can have a distinct effect on its image ON the web, where the majority of buzz around bands like Catfish Haven incubates.
lk
Also, I stand corrected on the definition of "bayou" - no one in Catfish Haven was born on the bayou, but then again, neither was anyone in CCR.
Lizz, journalism reports on (mainly) facts, criticism tends more towards opinion.
Hmmm ... were this not the web, you would've totally been able to tell that opening sentence was supposed to indicate that my answers are meant to be a little tongue in cheek ... but anyway.
I still think most of CH's positive relationship lies ON the web, and not outside it.
At the same time, I love seeing a hard-working Chicago band getting praise and such. I just hate it when the hype delivers up a Redwalls-type sceanerio where the band is fated to be lauded as "The Next Big Thing" by The Trib for anumber of years running because their initial hype overshadowed their capabilites by a pretty laarge margin.
And, wait ... John Fogerty wasn't born on the bayou! That liar!
yo tankboy. the catfish haven guys grew up on underground music you little self righeous nerd. they know a lot more about good music than the lameos that work at guitar center and "gig" at the cubby bear. so yeah they are different than those bad white boy blues bands. catfish haven play roots music just like the black keys or my morning jacket and like those bands they know better than to wait around for little music hipster nerds who've never touched a vagina to "get" what they're doing. go jerk off to a chan marshall magazine spread you loser.
and don't even compare them to the fakers in the redwalls. you won't see catfish haven having fake english accents on stage anytime soon.
im with tankboy on this one. i have seen these guys open for a lot of bands and can tell you they are alright at best. dont believe the hype.
"alright at best"...compared to what? Why should anyone listen to that opinion with nothing to back it up? Explain *why* they are alright at best. Sure, it's a subjective topic but try to inject at least some small degree of objectivity into. I find that a lot of people dissing CH either aren't really familiar with whatever genre it is they are, or they simply don't like ANYTHING from that genre. Finally, regardless of if you like the end result or not, the singer has a REALLY good voice, very unique and distinctive. Somehow that gets lost in the shuffle.
In Tankboy's defense, I have it on good authority that he has, in fact, touched a vagina.
And I would like to thank Scott for explaining to me that vagina is not a discomfort that occurs when your heart muscle does not get enough blood.
I'm curious, why do you (anyone who thinks Catfish has gotten/is getting too much praise) think Catfish is so well liked by most critics? Is it just a domino effect where a good Spin Magazine or Chicago Reader review snowballs compelling most others to fall in line?
Why don't the majority of critics come up with the 'coffeehouse rock' analogy and instead come up with Otis Redding, Fogerty, CCR, etc? Are they just idiots with no frame of reference?
You know, I wasn't really gonna comment on this, but then I read one of the comments from Tankboy and felt that he had showed me exactly what my problem with this post is. At one point in the comments Tankboy said, "My only point of reference, and the only one that I should be employing, is their debut and the expectations it raised versus the product actually delivered."
My problem with this post is that Tankboy seems to have way too many points of reference to be able to listen to this album unencumbered by expectation. It was the references to Pavement, Pitchfork, Stereogum, XRT, and random Dave Matthews baiting that made me cringe. Here, you're judging the album and the band on expectations raised not by the debut, but by the hype.
You say yourself that you're not reviewing the live show, it's the album. There might be a valid blog post in there somewhere discussing their "buzz" and it's effect on thier cult of personality, but let's not get that confused with how you feel about the music on the album.
E, while I agree there is a whole 'nother blog post (or, actually a bloog based on) buzz and its effects, I still think that it's valid to bring in those external factors to a review. We don't listen to / view things in a vacuum and, not that it's new, but it is especially true now, bands work the media angle pretty hard. Catfish Haven is no different and have certainly had no complaints about ridding blogger and MSM buzz, so I don't feel it's wrong to bring that buzz into the discussion.
And, for the record, I went to their release show last night in hopes that whatever was missing from the album might manifest itself in their live performance and win me over. However, after seeing them live, my opinion of them remains, regrettably, the same. But, hey, they packed the place, seem to have a lot of fans, and the folks in attendance were having a lovely time.
I was one of the "folks in attendance having a lovely time". It was so much FUN. This sums things up well:
http://sctas.com/2.0/CatfishTell.html
Hi Eric, so no one gets the wrong impression, I was being genuine when I said they packed the house with fans having a good time.
I read the review you linked to as well and think they had some fine points about the group's general sound, but disagree with the reviewer's observations that:
See, this notion of "authenticity" keeps popping up, and I really don't see what makes them any more earnest or "real' than any other band that sounds like they do. the reviewer also gives them props for working from within the confines of an acoustic guitar / bass / drums set-up, but live they certainly expanded beyond that ... and I'm not sold on "constraint" eliciting proof of artistic merit in the first place.I readily concede that the group has a pretty protective fan-base, and that's all well and good, but I think that their fan-base needs to concede that differing opinions are not wrong simply because they contradict a fan's belief.
Just got around to reading this. Great job, you guys! That was definitely fun.
I noticed my latest post was not approved; was it really offensive? I thought it was reasonable and I appreciate a healthy debate that doesn't involve personal attacks. I hope you do as well.
Thanks,
-Eric
Eric, I love a healthy debate and can assure you I would never delete a well-reasoned post that simply disagreed with me. However, the only post I see of yours in number 23, where you let me know you were at the show and directed our attention to another review of the band.
If you have a further opinion, I would actually really like to hear it.
I, and I think I speak for Chicagoist in general, LOVE listener feedback when it is there to further discussion of the topic at hand.
Thanks Tank.
I just think it's more than hype when sources outside of Chicago Public Radio/Chicago Tribune/Chicago Reader, etc, place high praise on Catfish Haven. I mean, why did they get good reviews in Seattle Weekly and The Washington Post?
Like a previous poster said, the critical consensus is clearly in favor of Catfish, not that it proves anything. Maybe this is just an appeal to majority, but in the end I hope people decide to take a listen and decide for themselves.
In the end--hype or no hype--the songwriting is pedestrian. Period. They just dont have the songs to back up all of this discussion. This message board, ironically, can only fuel the hype. It doesn't matter what your 'sound' is or by whom you've been influenced if cant write songs. I've never seen such a mediocre, uninspired band recieve so much attention.