Chicagoist: Faster Trains? We'll Believe It When We See It

transitman

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 23:15:08 -0600

We already have a train from downtown. The soo line aka North Central Train from Union Station. Install a streetcar from block 37 that runs express to Union Station. Then, run a Meta Express train every 15 minutes to and from Ohare. Same thing could happen with Midway....this would be far less expensive. And add A and B skip stop service...that would provide some limited express service for the rest of us 'peasants' who actually pay the taxes for everything. Courtesy of your Friendly Neighborhood Transit Man

kevin bracken

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:23:50 -0600

that is pretty expensive considering New York's AirTrain is only $5 ..

jon

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:59:43 -0600

Re: M Indeed, I had less than a 5 minute wait for the Lawrence bus. The Lawrence ride west would have been faster, but the chronic construction on the road has been slowing it down for the last couple of years. Not to mention the albany park "everyone slows down their car to shout at their neighbors as they walk by" effect. It was quite a cost savings - $1.75 for the bus/train combo, as opposed to $35 (at least) to taxi there, or $30 to park my car for 2 nights. So, for what amounted to perhaps an extra 20-30 minutes (at most), I saved myself upwards of $25. A fair trade off to me!

TJ

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:35:25 -0600

Hey Old Man Burnham: Nice city design! All three of the proposals mentioned by Ella ARE included in the 2010 Regional Plan for Chicago (you can download it from the City Planning and Development Site). Also included in that plan is a West Side Transportation Center which would connect up the various city and Metra lines. That concept is considered one of the essentials of the plan. So, I'd say that Ms. Ella has a future in urban planning. That figure 8 concept was only ever endorsed by a few folks that didn't know any better. Wait! Aren't you dead anyway?

Kevin

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:22:45 -0600

For those complaining about aging subway stations, remember that it is the responsibility of the city, not the CTA, to rehab these particular stations. If you're fed up with old subway stations, contact the city and Mayor's Office instead. Grand is scheduled to be the next Red Line subway station to be renovated, but so far the city has been taking their sweet time. Read the "Grand To Be Renovated... Eventually" section of Chicago-L.org's profile page for more history on the renovation delays.

Jeff

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:11:09 -0600

Got another response: "Thank you for your complaint. We apologize for the inconvenience of the escalator, but our attempts to repair it proved futile; it was too severely damaged. It has to be rebuilt largely from scratch and this will take some time. Please be assured we understand the importance of escalators to our customers and will have it back in service at the earliest opportunity, though it will take a few more weeks to get the major parts we need. In the meantime, your complaint about the puddle and general cleanliness has been reported to our maintenance staff. --CTA Customer Service" Hey, at least this response sounds customized. Write to the CTA. Do it now.

geekgrrl

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:50:16 -0600

i'd do a boycott to show how many people faithfully use the L every day.

Old Man Burnham

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:48:06 -0600

If only the city had ever listened to me when I laid out my plans for how it was to be arranged. I'd had some dreams about these things you call subways, and told the city to arrange itself around a figure 8, with the downtown area serving the center of the 8, and branches going in each direction to and fro. It has such potential for various lines to be built off of it, you know?

Ella

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:24:37 -0600

Forget the Super Station. Forget the express trains. What we need are more train/subway lines. Not only that, but new lines that actually CONNECT to the existing lines. People don’t only live along the lake in this town – there is not enough public transportation for the entire Western part of the city except what goes through Garfield Park and such. Both Northwest and Southwest sides need more. The Circle Line is a step in the right direction, but there are other proposals too which should be worked on: 1) The Mid-City Transit Way - which would use existing track from Lawrence or Montrose and connect the Blue Line to Midway, and hence, O’Hare to Midway running along Cicero. 2) The Electric or Silver Line – following the Metra line which goes South and, eventually, South and West. It could even connect up with an extended Red line to the South. And beyond these, what about two u-shaped lines: one on the North side and one on the South side that connect the three new proposals with the existing system and connect the West side to the rest of the city. Then we would have a public transportation system which would rival European or Asian cities. OK, I’ll get off my soapbox now…

Steven Crane

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:37:11 -0600

This is the kind of situation that a one day citywide CTA boycott would work wonders for. Maybe then they would have a better impression of who exactly the El ridership is. yeah. uh, how are those people going to get to work? lame idea, dude.

m

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:42:56 -0600

Jon, Lawrence bus to the Jefferson Park stop to Ohare in an hour is excellent. Sounds like you must have waited 30 seconds for that Lawrence bus. How much did you save over cab fare? How much would you have spent parking a car overnight at the airport? Many times the CTA is NOT faster than driving a car, especially if a bus is involved. I've waited up to a half hour for the Lawrence bus ... and I'd never go west on the Lawrence bus through Albany Park on a Friday or Saturday evening. Walking is faster.

Casio Nova

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:30:36 -0600

This is the kind of situation that a one day citywide CTA boycott would work wonders for. Maybe then they would have a better impression of who exactly the El ridership is.

jon

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:22:56 -0600

Navin - I agree. Ever try getting "ANYWHERE" from the newark airport? You can take the shuttle train to the Amtrak, then take it one stop to the PATH station, and then transfer that into manhattan... ick. Or pay a $75 cab ride to get into the city. O'Hare is amazing compared to the NYC airports and LAX. People just don't realize how good that they have it.

jon

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:19:16 -0600

I'm not sure why they plan on charging $8 over the usual price for a train to the airport that doesn't make any stops, but also doesn't get you there any faster. What's the point? I took CTA to O'Hare for the first time ever this weekend (Lawrence Bus to Blue line), and it took me just over an hour. Not much different from driving there on the Kennedy (isn't that sad?!)

jared

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:55:58 -0600

After reading the Trib article and Scott's post, I have to doubt that this could possibly be profitable. If backers can't show a certain potential for the service to produce a net profit (and it needs to be in the black a lot sooner than 2030) that can be utilized to fund improvements elsewhere in the system, there is no doubt that it's a monumental mistake to even consider funding it. The last couple times I took a cab to or from O'Hare, it cost about $40 including the tip. Unless things have changed, each additional passenger only costs an additional $1. Meaning that the per person cost of a cab ride becomes about $21 for two passengers, $15 for three and $11 for four. This fact would probably eliminate virtually all families and businesspeople travelling together as potential users of this service. After all, why trade fast point to point transport in a cab for a service that only gets one NEAR their destination and costs about the same or even more? I also have to question any analysis of ridership based on current numbers because no one can say how many el riders starting trips at the airports actually ride all the way downtown. Likewise, no one can say how many trips originating downtown end up at the airports. Without some kind of exit tracking system, I don't really see how the CTA can reliably gauge train usage anywhere. (Carole Brown loves to make oblique references to "ridership data" when commenting on the possibility of changing service, but knowing where people are getting on only tells part of the story.) Further, unless they get an analysis of how many passengers use competing services like cabs and shuttles, they have no idea what sort of potential there is for this.

Jeff

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:52:43 -0600

Re: Writing to the CTA: I already got this response: Thak you Mr. ________ I assure you that Chairman Brown will see this, along with appropriate staff who hopefully can get this done. Greg Longhini 312-681-5022 I'm sure it's a canned response, but it doesn't hurt to try. If everyone's so hot 'n' bothered by the CTA, take a minute to at least e-mail them. Again, griping about it on an obscure message board will accomplish nothing, and maybe the community spirit at Chicagoist could accomplish something by contacting the CTA directly.

jocelyn

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:43:55 -0600

bravo, navin! exactly. people who would rather *die!* than take the train. i don't get AT ALL how the cta has NO money, yet keeps coming up with these projects to enact (circle line, express trains??). and then the FIRST thing they'll do is say they have to raise fares and/or cut service and cut benefits and cut jobs. all while leaving huge bloated management salaries and pensions. i'm all for pensions, but for people who earn and deserve them. like people *running* the trains, and *driving* the buses.

navin

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:36:58 -0600

Sorry but O'hare to the loop on the blue line does not take much time. The people they're trying to cater to are the kind of people who wouldn't ride the train regardless. C'mon you know em', you work with em', the "I don't do the train" folks. Chicago has a great existing system for going to the airport. I'm amazed at the whining. Try arriving at La Guardia? How about other U.S. airports? Wouldn't it be amazing if the CTA and Daley actually did something for the working citizens of Chicago once and awhile.

ross

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:30:04 -0600

Improve what we already have before these grand plans for the airports. How about a helicopter shuttle to the airports from the loop. Tourism is important but lets take care of the people that live and work here first.

matty

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:17:29 -0600

I think it's long overdue and much needed. I agree that the CTA sucks and they should get the system fixed before making new plans, but this project has been wanted for a long time and I think it makes sense alltogether. Express service to downtown would make taking PT a viable option for business people and tourists and could mean lots of money for the downtown economy.

neigbor

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:13:04 -0600

A group of us called Neighbors Project is fed up with the painfully slow train and bus service, and we're doing something about it. We're flyering at CTA train stops through the November 7 election to get people to call their legislators and ask them to make improving the CTA a top priority. E-mail info@neighborsproject.org to volunteer to flyer (or get custom flyers for your stop); it's pretty fun and you wouldn't believe the number of people who are really grateful to get the information we're handing out. We're at neighborsproject.blogspot.com

Mr. Smith

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:45:58 -0600

Re: profitability From the Trib piece: Ridership must be at about 3 million customers a year or more in 2030 to make the express service profitable, the business plan said. The Blue Line had 3.25 million passenger boardings at O'Hare in 2005 and 2.6 million passengers boarded at the Midway station last year. I'm assuming this means 3 million total from both the O'Hare and Midway lines. But how many of those 5.85 million people were going straight downtown and not getting off at stops along either line. You'll probably get some of the cab/limo traffic going to this express line, but how much?

jared

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:37:02 -0600

This wouldn't be a bad idea if there is the potential for it to earn money for the CTA in the long term. Valuewise, if it were relatively fast (The CTA would absolutely have to eliminate ALL of the slow zones on the blue line) and cost less than half the price of a cab, it'd definitely be an attractive option for anyone (not only tourists travel to and from the airports) using the airports who begins, ends or connects downtown. As much as I think the CTA is often grossly incompetent, I'm not sure I can get on board with handing this service over to a private contractor though. Considering Daley's record with this sort of thing, it's unlikely a private firm would be any more efficient or skilled than the CTA, and the public would have even less oversight. Marilyn makes a good point regarding lessening congestion stemming from all the shuttles and cabs running from the airports to the loop. She's also right to mention the cabbies who'd undoubtedly be affected by this. What would be the net job gain or loss? I hadn't thought of the question of integrating the Orange Line with the block 37 station. Would orange express trains just be routed through the old Englewood branch subway connection to the orange line tracks near Cermak? Right now, if the Blue line were fixed, the profit potential for this could be proven and the service were to remain under CTA control (Assuming the current management could be replaced first), I think I'd support this idea before I'd support an Ashland corridor Circle line.

Jeff

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:33:40 -0600

A suggestion to all of us here: Email call or write a letter to the CTA now, while you're thinking about it. You can probably copy and paste what you just wrote and tweak it a bit. Reading all this made me angry enough that I just emailed them. I'll try calling after lunch. Posting about this in the comments section of Chicagoist won't make a difference, so channel your feelings into contacting the CTA directly, where it MIGHT make some small difference. Thanks. ctahelp@transitchicago.com This one's probably better: GLonghini@transitchicago.com

Casio Nova

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:29:55 -0600

Anyone been to Tokyo? I was there this summer and just blown away at how well run the subway and train system was. It's 100X the size of the CTA, it's efficient, the trains arrive on time all the time, it's clean, the trains are clean, well lit, safe, etc. -- I also don't understand the need to get to the airport faster. A better solution is for people to just stop being so damn lazy and allow enough time to get there. I'm sick of the city doing all it can to please tourists and visitors. Who the f*ck needs to get to the airports faster!

navin

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:21:23 -0600

a train could reduce traffic, reduce fuel consumption, and improve air quality. It would also be a step in the right direction for embracing more mass transit. There *IS* a train. A train that's not even too crowed except at rush hour. It doesn't take that long to get to O'hare (or Midway) and I don't have any problem with space issues. How could we improve this??? Oh I know, maybe increase the fucking frequency of the trains. But I see the basic problem with that: No pet projects, no pockets lined, no buddy contractors hired etc. etc. Keep the grimey stations if you want just increase the frequency of the service on trains and busses. I'd much rather see a line out to the west side or a train that goes north and south on the west side than this total waste of money.

Mark

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:16:20 -0600

I could see this service making allot of money. The city should make it allot easier to get to the train platform from O’Hare though. As it is now you have to walk about a mile just to get the from the termini.

Jeff

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:10:57 -0600

Seconding that the Grand stop is terrible. I even occaisionally see rats down among the rails if I'm there at off-peak times. I commute to the Harrison stop, which is also terrible. The escalator has been broken for months, with a sign appearing recently that it will be up and running in mid November. I don't need an escalator, but having it boxed off with a plywood enclosure leaves only a four or five foot wide staircase for commuters to go up and down on. Barely enough room, and no good for the elderly or disabled.

Mike

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:10:34 -0600

I have noticed recently, signs at CTA stations for community forums about the circle line, but that seems more for show than anything else.

jocelyn

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:07:56 -0600

the thing that never fails to strike me in any conversation regarding the CTA is how many great solutions, suggestions, and ideas come from the PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY RIDING and USING the system in question. i've never been sure what the 'board' does or is that carole brown is head of or whatever, but i cannot see why the CTA refuses to have or initiate a citizen's advisory board who would facilitate ideas and actions and solutions from the public to the CTA. and does that board get paid, btw?

Mike

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:57:34 -0600

There are good points to all of these CTA plans and money definitely does talk. i definitely think that all of the subway stations in the system need to be rehabbed to look like the Lake/Jackson/Chicago stations. those are really nice stations, well-lit, well-appointed with maps and tv screens and most importantly very clean. i'm not a transportation expert by any means, but it seems to me that the easiest and cheapest way to improve the CTA is to rehab these stations. even when they were rehabbing the Lake St. station there were no closures that I could recall. From there, move on to everything else.

sparky

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:41:42 -0600

Do you think Kruesi or Daley ever ride the CTA?

Casio Nova

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:30:11 -0600

The whole entire plan is just a mess. Talk about wasting money where it's not needed. Never mind that most of the Red Line underground stations are filthy, dimly lit, frightening corridors of disgust. It amazes me that nothing has ever been done. The Grand stop, obviously highly used by tourists due to restaurants and stores near Michigan Ave. is one of the worst. As a citizen of Chicago I'm sick of it, I can't imagine the disdain for public transportation felt by tourists using these services. The Washington Red Line stop and ones before and after also are just horrible. So much could be done to improve the look and feel of them. We have a mayor who is so influenced by the flowers of Paris or Rome or wherever that the city spends a fortune on them across downtown - but my one wish is that Daley would just once visit Paris and use the subway there, and hopefully return to Chicago and demand that the CTA clean up it's act below ground.

Thad

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:19:39 -0600

Why is it that so many real and proposed improvements in recent years--Navy Pier, Mil Park, now this express train idea--seem geared toward tourists? I'm all for earning as much tourism money as we can, and I love Mil Park despite its obscene cost, but what about the neighborhoods, especially the poor ones? (Well, I guess the poor ones will have to wait for the Olympics.)

Marilyn

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:05:08 -0600

I agree that basic services should get top priority, but I can see some definite advantages to this for Chicagoans as well as out-of-towners. The traffic on I-90 and feeding into and out of I-94 is terrible. A lot of that traffic is for O'Hare, and there is no way to widen the road at the I-90/94 junction. With car commutes getting longer and longer, a train could reduce traffic, reduce fuel consumption, and improve air quality. It would also be a step in the right direction for embracing more mass transit. However, the cab drivers would probably be losers in this scheme.

geekgrrl

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:03:14 -0600

money talks. block 37 screams. how would they get the orange line into block 37 anyway? they'd have to build another offshoot from the main loop. more money down the drain.

Mr. Smith

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 10:54:33 -0600

Well you're basically looking at two different capital improvement projects, both of which will extend operating expenses though the express service will involve more, I think. And since the CTA is already crying poverty on operating expenses (which is why they're saying they can't fix the slow zones), the express service seems like it's going to pull money away from both budgets and not doing much of anything for the folks who us the system the most.

crash-dev

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 10:49:30 -0600

CTA Tattler gets to the true part of this issue. It is not about Businessfolks or Tourists. It is about building that crazy super station at Block 37. I agree with Chicagoist that we should be extending and improving service where it is needed. The phase 1 of this plan is just too painful to even listen too.