Chicagoist: Mayor Daley Is Dead

Rob

Thu, 28 Dec 2006 11:59:33 -0600

Detroit Sucks.

Wilt

Fri, 22 Dec 2006 14:22:18 -0600

Wilt - You don't think anyone can see it differently than you? You're not biased or anything I'm sure. Where did that come from? Biased? A little bit maybe. I'm a native Chicagoan. I'm not old enough to remember Daley I but I've been around. I've lived or spent significant amounts of time in other major US cities. And at the end of the day there are few places that I find that are better to live in than this city. There are plenty of things that can change, less political corruption, a better transit system, etc. But for me at least, the positive things this city has to offer outweigh the negatives. And that was the point of my post. I'm sure some will disagree, and that's fine. However given all the negative stuff that gets posted around here, you have to wonder if some Chicagoist readers secretly hate this city. I realize the transit situation in this city sucks right now. But you'd be surprised at how many people in other cities actually envy what we have (the scope of the system, not so much the quality). Since my decision to live somewhere doesn't hinge completely on public transportation, Chicago does just fine for me. And for those who prefer New York over Chicago: There are plenty of non-stop flights between O'Hare/Midway and New York. Take one.

vise77

Thu, 21 Dec 2006 08:50:51 -0600

So, Kevin, your entire point about Chicago reform seems to hinge on a rather weak "what if" scenario. My point stands.

NSH

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:31:24 -0600

John Mc, great comment! although you are only scratching the surface, all of the locations of the projects mentioned had everything to do with race relations.

spolk

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:52:59 -0600

Every city has its problems, by no means does anyone live in a utopia. But, Chicago is a great place to live and work. The politicians may not be on the up and up, but who is? the moral of the story is: nothings perfect, but anyone can facilitate change

John Mc

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:47:29 -0600

The ugliest parts of Richard J. Daley's legacy are the expressways and housing projects that were built during his tenure. The Dan Ryan and Kennedy in particular are urban nightmares, as bad for motorists as they are for pedestrians who still today have to navigate around them -- ask any cyclist who travels from east to west on the north side. And then there are the housing projects, the now-gone Taylor Homes for example, built to contain and warehouse the poor east of the Dan Ryan expressway. It was all about getting millions of dollars in federal funds, and to hell with the neighborhoods that would vanish or be divided by these megaprojects. Another example is the U of I Circle Campus, which was built despite community wishes and destroyed a thriving Italian neighborhood. Daley will be remembered for the downtown he fought to preserve (the corporations, not the architecture). The rest of the city went into severe decline when he was in power.

NSH

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:28:25 -0600

Kevin not exactly sure what you are talking about? but whateva.

Kevin

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:03:59 -0600

NSH: I don't spend much time in those places you mentioned (well, I work downtown, but it's not like I work in Millenium Park). I have, however, spent some time in Cleveland and Detroit. It's not quite the same as Chicago, I can assure you. vise77: Last time I read the history, Harold Washington's movement was done in by high cholesterol, not "racist Machine aldermen and allied officials". In fact, had he not died so soon after he beat Fast Eddie Vrdolyak and his "evil cabel of white men", Chicago would look a lot different than it does today. And that's not defending the Daley's - my family supported Washington from the get go, and in the 10th Ward, no less. As for all those in a New York State of mind, I think nmpkm speaks for me.

nmpkm

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:57:37 -0600

NSH/Mo/Curmudgeon... Amen brothers and/or sisters. New York may have "more" of everything, but they can never take Chicago on one thing: the people. I really don't have a way of verbalizing it, but the one thing I always take away from a visit to New York is that Chicagoans are friendlier and less pretentious than anything I saw in New York. Wow, just freaking move already if you hate it here.

vise77

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:50:35 -0600

Kevin: I love your attempt to frame corruption and selfish politics as Social Darwinism: "Politics here, however, is predicated on survival of the strongest, and sometimes that means that the opposition gets crushed." True enough, but it doesn't mean it's right, not when one is concerned about the future of this city. Tell me of a real, lasting reform movement in Chicago recently. I guess I can perhaps give you Washington, but I'm more interested in one that wasn't challenged or ruined at every step by racist Machine aldermen and allied officials. Chicago as good as New York? Maybe, maybe not. Chicago has cheaper housing and more green space, and its alleys go a long way to the relative cleanliness. But NYC, after its own transit problems, actually has a decently functioning system. Its mayor doesn't go out of his way to kiss the asses of convicted felons (see: Sorich, et al.) And while Chicago theater certainy is better than Broadway crap, its hard to say our cultural offerings here, on the whole, are better than those found in NYC.

NSH

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:28:10 -0600

jesus h, get out of lincoln park/lakeview/downtown every once a while Reporting from areas of the city you didn't even know existed, Streets are clean, neighborhoods have character, they even survived crapstorm of the 80's. Do you need some money for that ticket to NYC? I bet you can make new friends with like minded attitudes there.

crapstorm

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:18:27 -0600

When you walk down the street today and marvel at the big buildings, the clean streets, the myriad neighborhoods with all their familiarity and character, when you stop to think how great it is that you live in such an amazing city when so many others have gone to hell... jesus h, get out of lincoln park/lakeview/downtown every once a while. also, chicago isn't all *that*. truth be told, i'd rather live in new york city. if it weren't for my job/friends/connections here, i'd go there in a second.

curmudgeon

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:12:24 -0600

Go live in NYC where the only green space is Central Park, which is beautiful, and so crowded on a fine day that you wish you would have stayed home. The politics suck here but the system does work better than Cleveland, New Orleans, Detroit, etc. In a perfect world Daley wouldn't be the lesser of 2 evils, but we live on earth, not perfect. And politicians are crooks everywhere you go. Everywhere.

Mo

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:27:40 -0600

And anyone who doesn't want to live in New York is, on some level, kidding themselves. ana, Yes, the CTA sucks. It sucks hard. But that last sentence is absolutely ridiculous. I'm all for city pride, and I'm all for New Yorkers thinking their city is the best in the world, but it's a joke to think everyone in the world is jealous for not living there. I have no interest in living in NYC at all--it's far too expensive and one of the dirtiest cities I've ever been to.

Kevin

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:44:43 -0600

Thanks for your thoughts, vise77. I would argue that we have already seen the answer to your question, although truncated and ultimately unrealized, in the Mayorality of Harold Washington. Indeed, it is a fair charge to make that people blindly assume that without either Daley Chicago would be just another "mistake on the lake". But to say that there hasn't been a reform movement or alternative solutions presented is ridiculous. Plenty have come, and still more exist. Politics here, however, is predicated on survival of the strongest, and sometimes that means that the opposition gets crushed.

ana

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:37:52 -0600

Wilt - You don't think anyone can see it differently than you? You're not biased or anything I'm sure. First of all, it depends on what you want from a city. I haven't lived in any of those cities, but as a traveler I can say Chicago's CTA is worthy of ridicule compared to DC and NYC. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that a single escalator was working for the entire two days I rode around on the CTA a month ago. Carrying heavy luggage from the airport up 100 stairs wasn't enjoyable, but at least I was young enough to do it, unlike other travelers getting off the Blue line that had to ask for assistance. Luckily for them, the natives were helpful. And anyone who doesn't want to live in New York is, on some level, kidding themselves.

Consumer Maven

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:33:54 -0600

It is interesting to see, thirty years later, the legacy that the (pops) Daley years have had and the legacy of the Daley family in the formation of the City as we know it. Sure, Chicago has its flaws - we're a city made up of people and what city doesn't? There are a lot of incredibly cool things Chicago also has to offer, especially in the area of diversity (ethnic dining) and things to do. The city has a certain vibrancy that is different from other cities, and that hasn't happened overnight. When I was a kid I used to hear so much about the corruption in Chicago, County and State politics, but at the same time, I also used to hear comments about how Pops Daley really loved the city, and that was his first priority, over personal gain. Government was just "different" back then, in a way that has slowly but irrevocably changed. Daley put Chicago on the "map" in a unique way, different from NYC, LA, Detroit, Austin, etc. It truly has turned into "OUR" kind of town.

vise77

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:33:41 -0600

If my choice of locale was based mainly on transit, Wilt, then NYC and DC would win easily over Chicago. I agree: Old man Daley did some great things, and, in general, I'll take a conservative Dems over an urban "progressive" any day of the week. He loved Chicago, and I have no doubt his son also loves this city with all his heart. But I wonder what might have happened if, instead of accepting the "truth" that without Daley, this city would have ended up as Detriot, we didn't have a Machine crushing all attempts at reform; or such an accepting attitude toward corruption, even as other big cities (see NYC) were taking steps to clean it up. The problem with Chicago is a lack of imagination, an inability of so many to think this city can thrive without the Machine and some Daleys in charge. Don't throw the '80s in my face--times were rough for all cities in the 80s, and old man Daley presided over the late '60s and ,70s, when things were getting rough, too. This lack of imagination when it comes to civic affairs is sadly ironic given all this city has done in art, architecture and literature.

Wilt

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:17:00 -0600

Chicago is far from the perfect city, and we do have our fair share That should read "fair share of issues".

Wilt

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:16:01 -0600

Chicago is far from the perfect city, and we do have our fair share, I invite you to spend time in other big U.S. cities and tell me that you wouldn't rather live in Chicago. Take for instance, Washington, DC, Detroit, LA, Atlanta, New York, New Orleans (pre-Katrina). I'd pick to live in Chicago over any of these. Think the schools and poverty suck here? Spend some time in DC (DC proper, not the bordering towns in MD and VA). That place is totally fuct, and it's the nation's capital! For all the BS we have to put up with Daley Jr. and his cronies, Chicago still is a far better place to live as far as big cities go, bar none.

Laura

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:14:03 -0600

I just read 'Boss' by Mike Royko! Good book about the man. And the Machine.

jon

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:04:19 -0600

nonchicagoist: Chicago was one of the only large, minority-dominated cities in America that didn't completely go to hell during the race-riots of the late 60s and 70s. Daley, for all his flaws, nearly singlehandedly held the city together and is responsible for our current prosperity. We could have easily been another Cleveland or Detroit if it wasn't for the strong arm of the Boss.

Cap'n Daley

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:04:13 -0600

All I know is that there is nothing so wholesome as a fish...

nonchicagoist

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:58:30 -0600

Oh gosh, here we go with the clean streets, like that excuses everything that is filthy about this city. The government is corrupt from top to bottom, yet we excuse it and joke about it because Chicago "works." What works? The schools are horrible, lorded over by a self-serving and incompetent union/bureaucratic cabal that squanders the rather high per-pupil allotment given to the schools. Poor kids are condemned to a life of poverty by the "caring" Democrats who run the whole show. Our public transportation system is a digrace--easily the dirtiest and most unreliable of any big city. Yet taxes are absurdly high--including the regressive sales tax. Cook County government is an absolute cesspool that lets our forest preserves and other public assets rot. Let's lose the Daley mythology.

NSH

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:47:31 -0600

The only difference between Boss Daley and Richie is the man on the street used to be able to get a parking ticket fixed under Boss Daley, now special favors are reserved for the corporations exclusively.

vit

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:19:26 -0600

... and he doesn't eat here anymore. Sorry, it had to be said.