Chicagoist: Be Careful What You Wish For

Three Percent

Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:59:56 -0600

You wanted affirmative action and minority set asides. You got it.

LLL

Wed, 30 May 2007 14:08:55 -0600

What about getting some rich people in the city to sponsor improvement projects? Instead of donating a park or library or fountain, how about a station updgrade? Help us little people out here, and I'll be eternally grateful:) We'll even put up a plaque or name the bus route after you...those gardens sure are nice, but going the four miles to work in less than 1.25 hours would sure be nicer:)

shera

Sat, 26 May 2007 19:24:10 -0600

I also read somewhere that one possibility for the future will be to cut service for the purple and yellow lines.... so that all the people who ride the train because they live in the suburbs and work in the city (or vice versa, like me) and don't have a car or don't want to have to deal with driving would actually not be able to get to and from work. I would actually have to quit my job if that were the case.

woodlawnchuck

Sat, 26 May 2007 12:18:15 -0600

One word: MONORAIL. Give 'em hell Quimby!

A2

Sat, 26 May 2007 09:30:52 -0600

If they have to raise rates they should just raise rates, but this gradation is just ridiculous! I love being able to run out the door, check I have my $2, and know that I'm solid to jump on the train. With this scale, it looks more complicated than the personal income tax code! Uh, can I get a deduction CTA? It will be very difficult in some situations to figure out if it's cheaper to take the train or just grab a cab. Unfortunately with the cost of gas rising the cabs are likely to become even pricier, so many of us will be left at the CTA's mercy.

Hettie

Fri, 25 May 2007 19:37:38 -0600

Speaking of raising fare rates and guess what? I got jumped on the grand ol #9 yesterday. As well as two other people by some kids who all came on thru the back door of the bus anyway! Did the driver do anything? Not really. Doesn't the recorded voice tell us to speak up when people try to ride for free? When we see something, say something? At least twelve high school kids came on without paying and then proceeded to act like thugs. At least no one got shot like that poor boy on the South side a couple weeks ago. I'm never riding another bus or train. I'll take my chances on my bike in traffic. Oh, and yes, I sure did file police reports and complaints with CTA! Plus documenting my mangled face. And Daley wants Chicago to get the Olympics? Please.

Kate

Fri, 25 May 2007 18:00:16 -0600

Jennifer, I believe you are thinking of the Long Island Railroad, which is a commuter line. The subway fare is still $2.

thundercougarfalconbird

Fri, 25 May 2007 15:17:32 -0600

+1 to Payton

navin

Fri, 25 May 2007 15:13:08 -0600

Nice post Payton!

Mikey

Fri, 25 May 2007 14:47:30 -0600

Fares & MetroCard The fare for a subway or local bus ride is $2. The fare for an express bus ride is $5. Jennifer - Where did you get your info? I cut and paste the above from the New York Transit website...

Jennifer

Fri, 25 May 2007 14:33:17 -0600

Compared to cities like NY and Boston we're pretty lucky that our trains/buses only cost $2.00. NY has the peak and off-peak pricing, which ranges from $6.75 to $9.25. I say that while the CTA needs to clean up its act majorly, price-wise we're pretty lucky. I'd rather pay $3.50 than $6.75.

jeffrey

Fri, 25 May 2007 14:11:47 -0600

well said payton... Its all about taxes...the formula does not benefit the CTA at all...

payton

Fri, 25 May 2007 13:43:01 -0600

I realize that I'm shouting to the breeze, but man, most of you folks don't know jack about how we pay for transit. Some common themes, and answers: What? Why do we already pay too much for awful service? Your fares pay about half the cost of running CTA service. Taxpayers (local sales tax) cover the rest. And the fact is, the cost of operations is increasing three times faster than tax revenue. When your cost of living goes up while your salary stays flat, you gotta make cuts. Yeah, the trains and buses and slow, unreliable, and dirty. You know why? Because every year that we've played this budget crisis game, CTA has ended up spending money allocated for cleaning/repairs on daily operations instead. Basic maintenance has been put off for years, and it's starting to show, big time. The trains elsewhere are great, and they make money! No mass transit agency in the world makes sufficient profit on operations to cover the cost of capital improvements. Those glorious transit systems elsewhere rely on generous tax subsidies: the Parisian transit authority gets FIVE TIMES more in tax subsidies than its equivalent here. Pick up the papers in NYC, LA, DC, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh, Toronto, wherever: those transit agencies are also running out of money. Perhaps not as fast as ours, but nonetheless. (Philly's SEPTA, in fact, is about to vote on what they also call "the doomsday budget," unless the state bails them out. However, their governor and mayor have made saving transit their #1 priority, unlike here, where Blago and Richie lust after a vast new welfare state and a literally-colossal construction boondoggle.) Privatize! Fire the bums! Sell more ads! We tried private operations of the CTA. Didn't work; all those companies went bankrupt way back in 1947, which is how we got the CTA in the first place. Oh, and CTA can't just pull a United Airlines and kill its pensions and benefits; that's illegal. As for waste and graft, we the taxpayers already paid for a a giant audit of CTA, RTA, Metra, and Pace, courtesy of the state Auditor General. Finding: "the needs are real, the problems are real." By almost any standard, our transit agencies are managing money pretty well. Yes, pensions in particular need a great big fix, but they're so underfunded that one can hardly blame them for bankrupting CTA. Advertising is not a major revenue source for transit agencies. Even auctioning off naming rights wouldn't do much; a failed deal to rename a prime downtown station in Boston yielded just $160K a year. At that price, even renaming every Loop station would cover just 2% of the CTA's budget gap this year. The Feds/Olympics will make everything better. Why all the fancy new construction? Yes, the Feds pay half of construction costs for (a few) big new shiny things like Brown Line reconstruction, but they don't pay anything for daily operations or maintenance. This is kind of like Mom paying for new clothes once Junior's outgrown them, but refusing to pay to wash or mend the ones Jr. already has. No wonder he's wearing flashy new shoes over hole-y socks. You think the Feds will bail us out in 2016? Fat chance. Again, they only pay part of the construction costs; Salt Lake City, Vancouver, and other Olympic cities still had to hike local taxes big time to fund transit operations and construction. Oh, and CTA kind of needs money now, not in nine years -- remember, the whole system grinds to a halt in October if no action is taken. Cut off-peak service, don't raise rush hour fares! Bus and train drivers, like most of us, work full-time, eight-hour shifts. Hiring people just for rush hour is nearly impossible -- would you work a split shift, 6 AM to 7 PM, without getting paid for 10 AM to 4 PM? Since the drivers are already paid to be there during rush hour, no additional drivers need to be hired for off-peak service. So, off-peak service is cheaper for CTA to provide. (Incidentally, day pass riders ride more off-peak, hence the day pass discount.) Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine. Whine. (Repeat ad nauseam.) Shut up and do something already. Visit SaveChicagolandTransit.com, read up, and take action. (Note: I am not materially affiliated with that site or with any transit agency.)

E

Fri, 25 May 2007 13:40:10 -0600

"E: I think she was referring to the unlimited pass, which does require either a credit card or bank account, and enough access to the internet to set it up. Not to mention, at least $75 floating around in your account to cover that. Well, my point is that you don't need the internet or a bank account to have a Chicago Card and avoid the higher cash fares. I don't need an unlimited ride plan and I don't want anyone automatically deducting money from me ever.

dan l

Fri, 25 May 2007 12:33:46 -0600

Wait. All that hot air might hurt the bangladeshis.

dan l

Fri, 25 May 2007 12:24:53 -0600

Tony B was all about: I hope the CTA just wants us - the aggrieved transit rider - to howl and moan, thus getting the state politicians' attention. Or they could just save energy costs by powering mass transit vehicles on the ample hot air generated by the aggrieved transit riders.

E

Fri, 25 May 2007 11:35:55 -0600

E: I think she was referring to the unlimited pass, which does require either a credit card or bank account, and enough access to the internet to set it up. Not to mention, at least $75 floating around in your account to cover that. I think the idea of having a tourist pass is A+. Tourists will have no problem spending $10 for a day pass, I'm guessing - and I know that I wouldn't be able to afford $122 for my unlimited pass. Or, for that matter, $3.75 a ride on a regular pass. I'm hardly the poorest person around, but if I'll barely be able to afford that (it's not like I'm going to get a raise to cover my transportation costs, work doesn't work that way), I can't imagine what it will be like for other people. These rate hikes will stunt this city and its economy, resulting in, I don't know, Detroit or something.

JKM

Fri, 25 May 2007 10:53:49 -0600

I don't understand the logic behind increasing fares on riders who use the CTA during peak hours. Those are the hours you want to be pushing people into public transit to reduce the overall congestion in the area.

mackingspain

Fri, 25 May 2007 10:36:20 -0600

I've never understood why transit systems are expected to be self-supporting, ie. paying for themselves primarily with fares. like teachers, firefighters, and cops, sidewalks and the majority of roads don't pay for themselves but we keep them up with tax money because they are necessary for civilization and commerce. let's take the other side of the argument, that everything should pay for itself. one of every three people in Illinois live in Cook county, but I don't imagine that every dime of the state taxes collected from individuals and businesses in this county stays here.

E

Fri, 25 May 2007 10:28:11 -0600

"i do have a chicago card, but the fact of the matter is, not everyone has a checking account or credit card or access to the internet. that's reality for some people. so, just putting that out there. Well, put it back. You don't need Internet, a checking account, or a bank account to get a Chicago Card. I fill mine up with cash at the machines, and I don't even have to fuss around with the CTA all up in my bank account.

mike

Fri, 25 May 2007 10:20:58 -0600

"It's costs money to run things people are so cheap and such idiots." Smell the irony!

Jonathan

Fri, 25 May 2007 10:17:40 -0600

City of Chicago Transit Tax.

ross

Fri, 25 May 2007 09:55:51 -0600

Raise the rates even if they get state/federal funding and operate a surplus. $122 for a monthly pass is not that bad. Try owning a car for that. It's costs money to run things people are so cheap and such idiots.

Feeling guilty

Fri, 25 May 2007 09:12:40 -0600

You're right. I say we give all Bangladeshis a 50-cent discount on CTA cards.

K.

Fri, 25 May 2007 09:10:45 -0600

I genuinely don't see the drawbacks of corporate sponsorship for the CTA. Are we worried that UPS wouldn't keep it real on the Brown Line? I mean, PLEASE. I guess there has to be a genuine, non-pretentious reason for avoiding corporate sponsorship, I just haven't heard it yet.

vise77

Fri, 25 May 2007 09:05:42 -0600

Jake: Don't you think greater use of mass transit will help fight warming? I agree: Jack up the gas tax. In fact, charge a congestion fee for entering the city. Create and enforce more high-occupancy lanes. Increase, slighly, the six-county sales tax and earmark it for transit. Reform the transportation funding scenarios so that much more money goes to mass transit when a big highway bond issue is made. Give the RTA vastly increased transit planning powers, so that the three agencies do not step on each other's feet, and so that somebody, perhaps, we actually can have universal fare cards. But, you must know the CTA for decades has been a dumping ground for political hacks, many of whom linger. There has been ample reporting over the years on this. As well, the CTA in the past 10 years has made several questionable land deals that benefited insiders. Yes, the main problem is lack of fuding--state, federal AND city--but the CTA could really help itself by cutting fat, inclucing generous benefits and absent or lazy workers. And yes, the CTA has been mismanaged: A focus on pie-in-the-sky projects at the expense of daily needs that have been on the burner for years (Block 37 vs Red Line extension, for instance). I realize the CTA has to chase fed dollars, but some people let the CTA, and the mayor (who controls the CTA) off the hook far too easily.

marquee

Fri, 25 May 2007 08:41:39 -0600

If the monthly CTA pass were to increase, it would only insure my already condidered switch to METRA.

jake

Fri, 25 May 2007 08:40:18 -0600

everyone complains about how they're getting hurt - what about the entire country of bangladesh, which is going to be devastated by global warming? there's a bigger picture here, and if we gave a shit about the poorest people in the world, who are not only going to be worst affected by global warming but are also the least responsible for it, we'd be figuring out how to get people out of their cars and how to build a comprehensive public transit system. the cta's problems are NOT due to mismanagement or overpaid workers (what kind of selfish asshole wants to reduce public servants to sweatshop employees?). they are due to underfunding. we need to jack up the gas tax and spend it on transit, to get people out of their cars and onto a transit system that works for everyone. otherwise, just give it 20 or 30 years before the waves of bangladeshi refugees start showing up.

vise77

Fri, 25 May 2007 08:31:37 -0600

If you want to do something, start sending letters or making calls to M. Madigan--he's the hog with the biggest nuts in the statehouse now. No, neither he nor any other of our so-called leaders seem to care about mass transit, but it never hurts. I make these calls, wrote these letters, and I've willingly given up my car, and I vote, and I try to make my friends/colleagues understand how important mass transit is to a healthy city--any other suggestions about what to do? I know more than a few people who will move to NYC should the CTA get any worse. It's that serious.

Ask what you can do for your country...

Fri, 25 May 2007 08:27:09 -0600

hey JFK: what exactly do you suggest besides your reading the post and ripping us? I have no idea, really. I was pretty blotto when I wrote that last night. For what it's worth, I'm paying for it this morning. So maybe you should just call me "Ted" instead...

Greg

Fri, 25 May 2007 07:27:36 -0600

There are a few things Chicago could do that they aren't doing. Things like Boston's public transportation system are doing. I'd raise fares for day passes for one. You'll still come out ahead if you ride the train all day long. Chicago attracts alot of tourists, I can definately imagine a card designed for tourists that have a little map of tourist attractive areas. Have the map printed directly on the card. Sell that baby for about $10 that doubles as a day pass and you've found a way to raise fares without screwing the regular riders. Right now visitor passes are sitting at $5 a day. Also, I hate to say it.... But Boston's card looks alot nicer.

jocelyn

Fri, 25 May 2007 01:15:43 -0600

hey JFK: what exactly do you suggest besides your reading the post and ripping us? i go to the public meetings and voice my opinion. i vote. i ride the CTA and don't drive. i'm starting to ride my bike ... not everyone has that ability. are you talking about protests and stuff? i'd be more than willing to get together with CTA tattler and see if people were interested in a formal protest or something. i'll be writing my state and federal reps as well. anything else? and josh -- i do have a chicago card, but the fact of the matter is, not everyone has a checking account or credit card or access to the internet. that's reality for some people. so, just putting that out there. as far as the benefits package ... ?? to whom is the benefits package "overly generous?" the executives? or the people making sure i get places safe? cause i'm not going to be too worried about the benefits package of the person running the el or driving the bus, frankly.

calwatch

Fri, 25 May 2007 01:08:52 -0600

Unfortunately, scaring riders to death seems to be common practice now in the transit industry. SEPTA in Philadelphia, Los Angeles MTA, etc. toss out nutty numbers ($95 a month in Philly, $120 a month in LA) to give the boards of these agencies cover to "reasonable" numbers once called on it ($75 in Los Angeles, $78 in Philadelphia). It's almost as if all these CFOs and CEOs got together and decided to just throw out the highest number they could think of and the most service cuts possible if they don't get their way. It is essentially the whiny baby syndrome.

anma

Fri, 25 May 2007 00:15:34 -0600

I know how to balance the operating budget: Fire all the lazy incompetent loudmouth stupid motherfuckers who work for the CTA. Sure, they'd have no employees, but it's not like they were working anyway. Seriously, weren't unions supposed to protect the worker and the common man? So how is it that the entire city is being held hostage by the Amalgamated Transit Union's overly-generous benefits package?

Allan

Fri, 25 May 2007 00:03:43 -0600

My penis is huge.

Ask what you can do for your country...

Fri, 25 May 2007 00:01:53 -0600

I've never seen a more pathetic bunch of bitches than I've seen on Chicagoist...do something to effect change, instead of just crying about it, and then maybe you'll carry some credibility...

Justin

Thu, 24 May 2007 23:55:27 -0600

Better go start that rickshaw service...

thundercougarfalconbird

Thu, 24 May 2007 23:48:36 -0600

A) I'm half kraut! B) My bad, you're right.

Unindicted Co-conspirator

Thu, 24 May 2007 23:39:24 -0600

The Skyway was sold to the Spanish, not the Krauts!

vit

Thu, 24 May 2007 22:10:34 -0600

This is a damn joke. New York is looking better all the time.

thundercougarfalconbird

Thu, 24 May 2007 22:04:50 -0600

Hell, Daley sold the Skyway to the Germans, why the hell not?

Dave

Thu, 24 May 2007 21:59:44 -0600

"Corporate help from city businesses may not be a bad idea." Agreed, except forget city businesses. If it means the ride is cleaner, reasonably priced, and more efficient, let the international corporations rename the lines. Just sell em to the highest bidder. The red can now be the Coca-Cola line. Blue could be the Nike line and so on. Some may say it's sacrilege but there's going to be nothing left of the cta to hold sacred soon!

Cliff

Thu, 24 May 2007 21:58:26 -0600

Don't expect anything but lip service from Huberman.

Cletus Warhol

Thu, 24 May 2007 21:07:43 -0600

It's time for Rahm "I Blued Up The Legislature" Emmanuel to use his miracle man juice to shake loose some Federal scratch. C'mon Rahm, you don't have to swing that "extend the Brown Line to the Blue Line" project that you promised during your first campaign for Congress; just a nice fat rail infrastructure rehab grant that can make the agency flush long enough to get its house in order so that Springfield will more readily pony up cash and we won't have to play this game of Political Transit Funding Chicken every freakin' year. Or perhaps it's time to agitate for H.E.M. to part with some of that Skyway Privatization Money. Turning highway money into transit money would be the ultimate beating of swords into plowshares (or roads into rails). And he could replace the money once all the profits from the Olympics roll in ;-)

Bekki

Thu, 24 May 2007 20:32:04 -0600

I do like the graduated plan, where you pay based on how far you ride. That makes logical sense to me.

Scott

Thu, 24 May 2007 20:05:31 -0600

Higher rates=less riders=less money for CTA=more cars on the road=a complete disaster My answer? Or should I say, the New Jerseyist's answer? Toll the roads coming into the city. And I say this as a driver. I'd rather have the CTA in tact than more congestion...as long as the money goes where it is suppose to go. Hopefully, this is just a bluff, but from what I've heard Springfield doesn't seem too concerned.

Should have bumped it to $2 years ago.

Thu, 24 May 2007 19:50:57 -0600

Corporate help from city businesses may not be a bad idea. Service cuts of this magnitude will have a terrible effect on business revenue, not to mention employee retention if you can't get downtown, and they will likely be willing to help out one way or the other.

prescott

Thu, 24 May 2007 19:35:13 -0600

This increase makes no sense -- so regular fare goes up 25%, but the monthly pass goes up 62%? It seems those are the folks who are getting "dicked", not the peak time riders (which, by the way, I'm unclear how those individuals are "using the system more" than someone riding the train/bus every day during non-rush hours).

Mindy

Thu, 24 May 2007 19:25:45 -0600

a disgrace, indeed.

laura

Thu, 24 May 2007 19:09:19 -0600

Kat - that is what I was just thinking. How are people supposed to get to down to the South Side without the #1, #2, #X3, #X4, #26 and #28X? For serious, how?

Kat

Thu, 24 May 2007 18:58:49 -0600

That kills pretty much all transit in Hyde Park and the surrounds except the always-packed 6 and the 55. Brilliant choice CTA

Mikey

Thu, 24 May 2007 18:45:41 -0600

I have to agree that to some extent, this is just a doomsday bluff, but I also think that fare hikes are inevitable... Don't blame Huberman--as has been already pointed out, one of his first acts was to cut fat to the tune of 12.5 million dollars. He can't magically make money appear out of thin air... Public transportation is beneficial for the environment and it's vital for the health and live-ability of a major metropolitan city like Chicago. The entire burden should not be placed on the riders--we all support programs and initiatives with our tax dollars that we will never directly benefit from, whether we like it or not... It is the duty of state and federal governments to step up to the plate and address this growing problem nationwide and come up with the funding. As time goes on, public transportation in general is only going to become more important and essential to not only Chicago, but to cities all over the country...

Kevin

Thu, 24 May 2007 18:08:39 -0600

How else do you expect them to plug a $96 million hole in their budget? Huberman has already made $12.5 million in administrative cuts and this contingency plan would make an additional $5.6 million in administrative cuts. As the state audit showed, funding is the problem and not so much mismanagement. Chicago is not the only city threatened by insufficient transit funding. Governments in both the US and Canada simply do not make public transit funding a priority. While I'm not saying CTA doesn't deserve any blame, the root of the problem is local, state, and federal governments that simply don't care about transit.

Chicago 2016

Thu, 24 May 2007 18:05:50 -0600

I miss the good ol' MTA in New York...

Jessica

Thu, 24 May 2007 18:02:30 -0600

I just don't understand this flat rate thing. Now granted I live and work in the 'burbs and my commute is small, so I don't take the CTA, but I used to live in Washington DC, where I took the Metro (their CTA) everyday. In DC, we had these fare cards that were refillable. As we got on the train, we swiped the card through the turnstile and it recorded where we got on. Then when we got off the train, we again swiped it through the turnstile and it deducted the appropriate amount. The fares started at $1 and gradually increased based on how far you travelled. I don't remember what the top fare was, but it seemed to me it was somewhere in the $3-4 range. Then to ride the bus it was a flat rate and we could purchase bus transfers, but I don't remember how much that was. The system was spotless, no urine smell, no litter (eating wasn't allowed and trust me, you'd be fined), police were all over the place, trains ran on time, and there were no slow zones - all in all, it was an awesome system. Why can't the CTA institute some sort of graduated rate and let those that travel the furthest pay the most?

Kate

Thu, 24 May 2007 17:58:18 -0600

I am so freakin sick of these people - it is LUDICROUS for a city that is seriously courting the largest sporting event in the WORLD to continuously demonstrate this level of incompetence when it comes to running a mass transit system. No offense to Huberman - but why the hell wasn't there any kind of due diligence done when Kruesi announced he was stepping down? Why wasn't someone with proven experience in running a transit system the size of ours brought in, instead of one of Daley's boys? Are they fucking kidding me? My monthly pass will now cost almost $50 more than it does right now? I can't afford to do that - what am I supposed to do, walk everywhere? And what's with this retarded fare structure? This much if you pay by cash, this much if you pay by card, this much if you use the train first but this much if you use the bus first - this is STUPID. How are the international visitors coming to town for the Olympics supposed to figure this shit out if those of us who live & work here all the time are confused by it? I see the transit system issues as being closely linked to the Olympic bid - how do you move all these people around without solid mass transit? - and I have to say that at this point, I sincerely hope Chicago does not get the Olympics, since we clearly don't have our shit together. Daley doesn't deserve it.

nathan

Thu, 24 May 2007 17:56:09 -0600

this is an absolute disgrace for chicago. this city doesn't deserve the olympics. world-class my ass.

tom

Thu, 24 May 2007 17:42:12 -0600

they are going to keep threatening to raise prices and cut service. if you look at their projected 2008-2009 budgets, they're going to need an additional $200 million dollars to cover increased expenses (almost all of it labor) by 2009. here's the link (rather large PDF file) www.transitchicago.com/downloads/budget/2007sum.pdf the 2009 proposed budget is on page 67. today's announcement may have to do with slightly different numbers, but the jist of what the CTA is planning is all right there. what a load of crap.

Josh

Thu, 24 May 2007 17:36:47 -0600

Um, there's no damn excuse for not having a Chicago Card right now.

tonyb

Thu, 24 May 2007 17:31:49 -0600

Methinks this is a ... big, ugly, scary bluff. I hope the CTA just wants us - the aggrieved transit rider - to howl and moan, thus getting the state politicians' attention. Because this is a very frightening plan (the express buses, X49, are one of the best ideas the CTA has implemented in a long while.) Which I guess is the point - hit many people where it hurts - with the hope that Springfield does something about it this time. But if you're feeling a little used right now - well you're not alone.

Sean-O

Thu, 24 May 2007 17:31:43 -0600

Even with hefty cost cuts, years of underspending and mismanagement won't go away, and there's a big money hole. So what to you do? Tap goverment funds, which charge a whole lot of people that don't use the system, or raise it on the backs of those who do. Probably going to be some of both.

krinkle

Thu, 24 May 2007 17:31:35 -0600

is it any coincidence that our city has the highest gas prices in the country and one of the slowest mass transit systems. i swear, the cta just gets worse and worse every single year!

james

Thu, 24 May 2007 17:18:47 -0600

be careful what you wish for, indeed! too bad you [not chicagoist 'you,' but the collective bitchers and moaners 'you'] don't have frank kruesi to kick around anymore....

thundercougarfalconbird

Thu, 24 May 2007 17:18:12 -0600

Hooooooooly shit. And Jocelyn hit the nail on the head: "How often are they going to raise prices and cut service? Or keep threatening it?" It seems like they're just going to keep doing this over and over and over till everyone gets a car.