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Seriously, guys, Burton Natarus is not on Chicago's City Council anymore, but it's not like he's dead. Eugene Schulter and Walter Burnett must have banked on his promise to spend the summer kayaking, however, because it didn't take them a hot minute to go after one of the cornerstones of his legacy: dogs, their shit and people who eat around it.
Schulter re-introduced a stalled ordinance ("Seriously, guys, I haven't even walked out of the DOOR yet") that would allow dog owners to bring their pets along with they eat outside. The new version stipulates that dogs not go inside the restaurant, and that it is kept on a leash and under control at all times. Fran Spielman quoted Schulter as saying, "There's no evidence that there is any problem [with dogs eating outside] at all."
Actually, since we're not in the Middle Ages, there is a problem with it, director of food protection for the Chicago Department of Health Frances Guichard testified yesterday. And lightning must have struck in the nether regions of hell just before it froze over, too, because she said, a whole lot more articulately and with facts and figures backing her, some of what Natarus said. Here are a couple of examples:
Natarus: "It's unsanitary"
Guichard: "They may have feces on their face."
Natarus: "What is to stop the dogs from defecating and urinating on the floor of the outdoor cafe?"
Guichard: "Dogs also create a hazard when they defecate out on the sidewalk and it has to be cleaned up, either by the patron or the staff."
That's pretty nuts, huh? When they finally heard the argument from a rational, high-ranking member of a respected governmental body, however, the aldermen seemed to reconsider the proposal. Burnett went so far as to say he didn't want his dog in the kitchen anymore.
To tell you the truth, it was Natarus's arguments that the dogs would be rowdy and irritating that we bought the most. A dog looking up at you with that adorable face wanting food is way more uncomfortable than any sickness caught from dog feces on your servers' hands, right?
Image via www.nwkniterati.com.
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dogs are about as bad as children. keep them away from my dining experience.
Dogs would be a wonderful addition to Chicago's al fresco dining scene. I would love to take Wrigley, my ADORABLE Black Lab puppy, to Chicago's many outdoor cafes. If people are offended by her retractable leash that's their problem. They can just step over it.
There's this document that guarantees me the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Taking Wrigley to outdoor cafes is pursuing happiness.
Have you ever seen a herpes riddled, dysentery infected homeless person throw up or urinate on the sidewalk and then watch some city dweller walk their precious pooch right through the day old dried up detritus with it's bare paws? Or worse stop and sniff and lick the stain? Then wash it's feet with it's tounge as well as it's own genitalia?
Unless you're prepared to eat with someone who walks the streets barefoot and on all fours and subsequently cleans both their hands and feet with their mouths as well as wipes their face with their used toilet paper before depositing it in the bowl you have no business introducing your pet beasts to public kitchens and dining rooms.
Humans do not dine with animals.
Have you ever seen a herpes riddled, dysentery infected homeless person throw up or urinate on the sidewalk and then watch some city dweller walk their precious pooch right through the day old dried up detritus with it's bare paws? Or worse stop and sniff and lick the stain? Then wash it's feet with it's tounge as well as it's own genitalia?
Unless you're prepared to eat with someone who walks the streets barefoot and on all fours and subsequently cleans both their hands and feet with their mouths as well as wipes their face with their used toilet paper before depositing it in the bowl you have no business introducing your pet beasts to public kitchens and dining rooms.
Humans do not dine with animals.
I fail to see the point of your article? But boy this City Council sure worries about a lot dumb things. I think we have too many Alderman and they just need to create things to keep busy.
I fail to see the point of your article? But boy this City Council sure worries about a lot dumb things. I think we have too many Alderman and they just need to create things to keep busy.
Well behaved dogs have been hanging out at outdoor patios for year in Chicago. We regularly take our dog to bars, restaurants and coffee shops and sit outside.
Dogs accompany their owners to establishments through out the world. Not that, that is a good defense. But, the dogs that i have seen at outdoor patios have always been well behaved, well socialized dogs. They are not fighting, throwing poo, or bothering anyone else there.
Adam, did you even read the article before you commented on it (twice for some reason)?
The proposed ordinance would not allow dogs in either dining rooms or kitchens. It would allow them on a public sidewalk, the same sidewalk your hypothetical "herpes riddled, dysentery infected homeless person" walks and vomits on.
Of course, the birds, mice, squirrels, raccoons, and rats that crap all over outdoor eating areas aren't mentioned, nor is the fact that there are no hygiene requirements for human patrons such as your vomiting homeless urinator.
I think it's ridiculous that restaurants aren't permitted to allow dogs in outdoor areas, especially on public sidewalks, if they so choose. They also should have the right to refuse service to dogs as well.
Give me a break. I'm tired of Chicago being such a nanny state...
A well-behaved and supervised dog isn't a problem any more than a well-behaved and supervised child. Adam, there's a difference between humans and animals *dining together* and allowing your dog to sit at your feet while eating at an *outdoor* place. I don't know how you eat, but I eat at the table... and if I had a dog (I don't) they wouldn't be on the damn table with me. And you know what else, Adam, we're talking about eating at outside venues... so you're eating on the same damn sidewalk that your hypothetical homeless person threw up on. Again, are you rubbing your food on the ground or something??! Sheesh.
If people can't control their animals (or their kids, for that matter) they can be asked to leave. But if everyone is behaving, I don't see why this is such a horrible, horrible thing. Don't let the dog on the table and don't eat out of it's bowl. Sanitary problem solved.
Adam, did you even read the article before you commented on it (twice for some reason)?
The proposed ordinance would not allow dogs in either dining rooms or kitchens. It would allow them on a public sidewalk, the same sidewalk your hypothetical "herpes riddled, dysentery infected homeless person" walks and vomits on.
Of course, the birds, mice, squirrels, raccoons, and rats that crap all over outdoor eating areas aren't mentioned, nor is the fact that there are no hygiene requirements for human patrons such as your vomiting homeless urinator.
I think it's ridiculous that restaurants aren't permitted to allow dogs in outdoor areas, especially on public sidewalks, if they so choose. They also should have the right to refuse service to dogs as well.
Give me a break. I'm tired of Chicago being such a nanny state...
A well-behaved and supervised dog isn't a problem any more than a well-behaved and supervised child. Adam, there's a difference between humans and animals *dining together* and allowing your dog to sit at your feet while eating at an *outdoor* place. I don't know how you eat, but I eat at the table... and if I had a dog (I don't) they wouldn't be on the damn table with me. And you know what else, Adam, we're talking about eating at outside venues... so you're eating on the same damn sidewalk that your hypothetical homeless person threw up on. Again, are you rubbing your food on the ground or something??! Sheesh.
If people can't control their animals (or their kids, for that matter) they can be asked to leave. But if everyone is behaving, I don't see why this is such a horrible, horrible thing. Don't let the dog on the table and don't eat out of it's bowl. Sanitary problem solved.
I fail to see the point of your article? But boy this City Council sure worries about a lot dumb things. I think we have too many Alderman and they just need to create things to keep busy.
why people reply twice is because Chicagoist often times says there is an error.
There's a reason they're called "house pets"
Like with smoking, I think restaurants should be able to decide on an individual basis whether they will allow dogs in their outdoor cafes. That way, I can choose to give my business to the places where dogs are not allowed.
But if you have to pick one side, I'd say, ban dogs from eateries all together. All the things that health department worker said is true. Dogs carry all kinds of crap that you don't want to eat or catch. Restaurants are a business, and they need to follow sanitary guidelines. I personally don't want to sit down at a table that has dirt and poo smudges on the legs from a dog that jumped up on it, or whatever.
As for the comment that dogs are in establishments all over the world, it's true. But have you been to all those places? It's disgusting. Paris, the beautiful metropolitan historical city, and likewise Rome, have dog shit on every fucking surface of the city, including the restaurants. It's gross. And it stinks.
I love animals to death. I've had pets that I felt were family members, and I've worked with animals in conservation and rescue capacities. I still don't want to eat with them.
I'm with dwight and O'Reilly
In older progressive European countries, well behaved dogs are allowed into restaurants. They don’t cry like those spoiled "one day I’m gonna grow up to be just another Stupid Eye reading corporate clone or marry one SUV driving" brats that I see in Lincoln and Wicker Park in turbo strollers. And although the kiss of a pretty girl is sweet, thier mouths( and most humans) are far less sanitary than Truth, my 130 pound Dogue de Bordeaux or any other dog’s mouth is. Further dogs provide a calming state on humans while promoting a common bond between humans as a point of introduction. I have mad countless friends at dog friendly bars.
p.s I have never seen a bar fight at a dog bar!
I agree with Dwight and O'Reilly,- even though she the common yuppie dog.
In older progressive European countries, well behaved dogs are allowed into restaurants. They don’t cry like those spoiled “one day I’m gonna grow up be a corporate clone or marry one Stupid Eye reading SUV driving) brats that I see in Lincoln and Wicker Park
rolling in their baby SUV turbo stroller.
And although the kiss of a pretty girl is sweet, human mouths are far less sanitary than
Truth, my 130 pound Dogue de Bordeaux’s mouth or the mouth of any other dogs. Further dogs provide a calming effect on humans while promoting a common bond between us savages as a way of introduction. I’ve met great friends at dog bars while I have yet to witness one fight at a dog bar!
I think sidewalk cafes are stupid. Especially on bus routes.
My Wrigley is a perfect little angel. She does NOT roll around in poop or carry diseases.
Spook, and any other person who believes this, the idea that a dog's mouth is cleaner than a human's is a MYTH. A MYTH. A MYTH. It doesn't necessarily mean you'll get sick from kissing your dog, but it is a myth.
Most of the viruses and bacteria your dog has in its mouth are usually species-specific, so you probably won't get it, but that's not necessarily the case with parasites, which humans absolutely can get from their pets, and also fungus like ring-worm.
Plus, I don't have many human friends and acquaintences that eat their own poo. I might not get infected from my dog, but I still don't want to kiss his poo lips.
I agree with Mo,I love animals but there is a place for them and it's not at public outdoor dining venues,I don't want to spend an afternoon or evening at an outdoor cafe and have someone with their "cute little" dog right next to my table,as soon as I see someone with a "pet" at an outdoor cafe I just go somewhere else.
As for Mandy O'Reilly and your dog "Wrigley",unless you wipe and clean his ass everytime he takes a dump,please keep him in the park or at home where "pets" belong!
FYI -
There's this document that guarantees me the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
There are NO guarantees, in life or in law, especially with this document, which does not have the force of law.
All right Moss,
yea yea yea,I thought I figured I was pushing the old proverbial envelope and Your Spook aint one to stand on faulty half and mistruths as oppose to the real truth I will cede your point, but recognize that not all dogs eat poop! And for those that do, it’s a bad habit that careful training will end. So again it’s about being a responsible owner
And I clean Truths teeth weekly with salted water and a moist cloth and of course raw hide and pig ear chews
Most people who have dogs would admit that their dog sits under their chair or table when they are eating at home. Does the City Health Department suggest that dogs be kept outside, with no interaction with human at all?
I can understand people having a fear of dogs, not liking them, or even bypassing a restaurant that is dog friendly. But I think that decision should be left up to the business owner and the patrons to decide.
However banning the practice outright because some people think it is gross, should not happen. Do you think that every person at one of those patios has cleaned off the bottom of their shoes, and washed their hands after getting off the L?
Lots of people are allergic to dogs, and having to share a dining space with animals would be pretty miserable for them.
All right Moss,
yea yea yea,I thought I figured I was pushing the old proverbial envelope and Your Spook aint one to stand on faulty half and mistruths as oppose to the real truth I will cede your point, but recognize that not all dogs eat poop! And for those that do, it’s a bad habit that careful training will end. So again it’s about being a responsible owner
And I clean Truths teeth weekly with salted water and a moist cloth and of course raw hide and pig ear chews
I say bring the dogs up to Argyle Avenue in Uptown.
Then let the restaurants put them to good use.
HMMMMM.........tasty!
I don't like (most) dogs, and hope they stay out of the restaurants around here.
By the way, every dog owner thinks his/her dog is well behaved.
There's also an issue of a well behaved dog sitting under a table on the sidewalk when someone else walks his aggressive dog nearby. Dog fight, even just jumping up and loud barking. This happens with dogs all the time in and around my building. Doesn't belong in restaurants.
I say, let the dogs stay, kick out the small children! A dog that barks or otherwise makes noise or disruptions would surely be asked to leave, but those kids are all "wah wah wah" when I'm trying to eat my salad.
On a side note, I was once sharing a bottle of beer with my friend's dog at a party - one sip for me, one for him, etc., when the dog paused to lick his butt. I said "Ew, gross - no more beer for you!" when his owner turned to me and said "huh huh Sam, know how many times he licks his butt in a day?"
What about the cats? The cats!
Given what's been found in pet food recently, maybe they should open pet cafes and argue about whether or not to let humans eat there.
These people who think that dogs are unsanitary need to look at the bottom of their shoes. Uh huh, that's right. I sleep with my dog and I've never caught a cold from him. Those nasty babies that people insist on wheeling around everywhere, however... don't get me started on those. Drooling, snot-nosed, germ factories... oops, too late, I'm on a roll.
Just for the record, I also think the bottom of my shoes are filthy. I never wear shoes in my house, and I would be equally horrified if I were at an outdoor cafe and saw someone with their shoes on the tabletop. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm not out to change anyone's mind about their animals--I just wanted everyone to know I'm consistent. And kids--ick, totally gross, too. I've had a child fill his palm with snot and try to grab food off my plate. This is also why I try to eat in restaurants not filled with kids!
And now people complain about dogs at outdoor eateries...
Here's an idea--if you don't like the fact that the owner of the restaurant chooses to allow pet owners to bring their pets, then eat somewhere else!!
Christ--if things were left up to the bitchy residents that seem to dominate Chicagoist posts, this would be the most flavorless, sterile, generic city since this side of Toronto...
Mikey,
With the exception of Adam and his crazy homeless person rant, all of the above posts from anti-dog-at-eateries are fairly logical and dispassionate, and most (like myself) agree that it should be left to the restaurant owner, and we would eat elsewhere. It seems to be the people in love with their dogs that are getting up in arms and bitchy. I guess only your type is entitled to your opinion, and I think it's interesting that in your accusations of "bitchy residents" posting, you yourself are being totally pissy. Whatever, dude.
Like with smoking, I think restaurants should be able to decide on an individual basis whether they will allow dogs in their outdoor cafes.
But if you have to pick one side, I'd say, ban dogs from eateries all together.
"Whatever, dude." It seems that you can't even figure out if you're coming or going. Which is it? What irritates me are the people who complain about things that they personally do not like, and wish to impose their will upon the masses. There are thousands of restaurants in this city--I'm sure you can find at least a few that do not allow dogs if that is a concern...
And as a matter of fact, I've been to Rome twice in the last three years, and failed to notice the "dog shit on every fucking surface of the city, including the restaurants." The question is if you've ever been there, or did you just read that somewhere?
Animals don't belong in restaurants.
Science to Jeff, Science to Jeff, Come in Jeff Come in, Humans are animals Jeff, Copy that Jeff? Humans are nothing but savage stupid animals for the most part.I repeat Humans are animals, copy that, over
Science to spoke, science to spoke, come in spoke: While humans are indeed animals (and you twisted Jeff's context, by the way), different animals often carry different germs that can pose a greater health risk to other types of animals. Don't know if this is the case with dogs vs humans, but your idea of science seems rather narrow. I mean, you you want to pet a squirrel or pigeon?
Copy that?
Mikey,
First of all, "But if you have to pick" is enough of a statement to say that my primary choice is not to regulate it. It is possible to have one opinion and a secondary opinion based on a hypothetical. If it comes down to "ban all dogs" or "allow all dogs in all eateries," (that being one side or the other) my choice is ban all dogs. That's my opinion. Most people don't have 100%, black and white views of the world, and complex situations allow for contingency opinions. And yes, I agree that people should not impose their will on the masses, which is why I oppose the smoking ban, and the foie gras ban as well. But that is not the same as voicing an opinion, which each and every person is free to do. But again, I don't think I'm being bitchy by saying this!
As for the question of Rome, I was born in Italy, and my family travels back quite frequently, so yes, I've been to Rome many times (and Paris, and many other countries around the world). And yes, I found an inordinant amount of dog shit there. For instance, my sister stopped to tie her shoe, so for a bit of a rest, I propped my elbow on a window sill, which was at about shoulder level. And there was a log of dog shit on it. On the window sill. So of course, not every surface was covered (are you trying to ban hyperbole???), but there certainly was a ton of it, and that included restaurants--both in the nicer areas of the city, and the poorer. Perhaps you just don't notice it as much because you love dogs so much?
So much for the dog friendliest city in the country.
Kind of like trying to make this the "greenest city in the country", and not even having a recycling program.
Mo -
I cannot comment on Paris, because I have never been, but that was not my impression of Rome at all. Dog lover or not, I would have noticed had I stepped in a pile of shit and would not have been happy about it. Did I ever see any dog crap on the sidewalk while in Rome? Sure, but no more than the occasional pile I see in Chicago or any other major city. There are inconsiderate people there just as there are here, but to use the irresponsible dog owner who is in the minority as an excuse not to allow restaurant owners to dictate their own pet policies outside and therefore ruin it for the majority is ridiculous...
My guess is that you stand a better chance of a dove shitting in your food (E. Coli) outdoors than getting dog feces on your hands or in your food. I don't see the type of people that eat at outdoor trendy restaurants as the same type that are going to bring a mangy mutt with feces on its face along...
If a restaurant owner wants to allow dogs in the outdoor seating area (which is more often than not public space anyway), I don't see why there should be a problem--it's at his/her own peril to lose business if it deters customers...
It's like everything else in life which we, as a country, don't seem to get--if you find something offensive on television or the radio, then don't watch or listen to it. If you don't like the bar crowds and late night noise, then don't move to a neighborhood like Wrigleyville. And if you don't like the idea of dogs being anywhere near your food outdoors, then choose another restaurant.
Mikey,
Well, even though we are on opposite sides of the argument, what it comes down to is that we agree on the main point, that it's up to the business owner and the customer to choose where to eat.
Now let me ask you this. What if someone moves to a quiet neighborhood, and then later an obnoxious, loud, parking-problem-causing bar opens up on your block? Do I have a right to complain? Because that is what has happened on my residential Roscoe Village street, and now Friday and Saturday nights are horrible on my block.
Yes, I would say you have the right to complain, especially if you and the other neighbors weren't given a say...
Hello Jeff!?! Animals don't belong in restaurants? Sweetie, this isn't about IN restaurants. It's about OUTSIDE on the STREET, with car/bus exhaust and pigeons and yes, RATS that come out at night. What a bunch of morons you people are! You think your sidewalk cafes are sanitary? You think the restaurant washes the sidewalk with anti-bacterial soap every day? Please. Why don't you all just move into a clean room at Abbott Labs so you never encounter another germ in your life. Or better yet, why don't you spend some time in Bangladesh or Afghanistan or Iraq so you know what real filth is like.
Steven-
This has nothing to do with hygeine for me. I just don't like dogs very much, and don't want them around me in restaurants.
Then eat IN the restaurant and my little Spugi and I will stay outside. Problem solved.
Restaurant patios are part of the restaurant. Servers have to walk around carrying large, heavy trays, and food is being served. The patio is an extension of the restaurant. In addition to the aforementioned health concerns, I've been on patios where I've watched servers continually trip over large dogs sprawled out in the middle of the traffic path. Also, I've been on patios far too many times when some big dog came over and stuck his nose in my crotch, while his owner stood by, saying, "don't worry, he's friendly." Well, in addition to being seriously allergic to dogs, I don't really want some strange animal coming up to me and nuzzling me in my private parts, "friendly" or not.
I just get so tired of people confusing their pets with people. There is absolutely no reason to take your dog to a restaurant with you. What the fuck ever happened to boundaries? You'll live without Fido for a few hours, yuppies. Suck it up.
Oh, and Mandy O'Reilly is a brilliant parody. I can't believe people are taking her seriously!