Chicagoist: Students Rally for Academic Freedom Downtown

Spook

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:59:33 -0600

Oppps! whelllllp if we can't laugh at our selves, who can we laugh at?

dan

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:23:51 -0600

spook- seriously, if you were a reporter, you would be liable for slander. Dave and dan are two completely different people, as indicated by the two different names.

Spook

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:36:27 -0600

Dan Nope, I have cut and pasted your words below "See: www.alandershowitz.com/news.php" And I never said liberals are open minded and progressive,my My critique about liberals is that they are timid,lack courage to tell the truth and are unwilling to take a stand for what’s right. Finkelstein is no liberal, he is a progressive I’m sure he realized the great risks career wise he was taking by speaking out against Zionist, Israeli military policy and American duplicity in it

dan

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:12:45 -0600

spook- Where did I provide Dershowitz's website?? I think your confused. But it is interesting how you claim liberals are open minded and proggressive, and then claim that liberal Finkelstein is the only one proclaiming the truth. Pretty close minded of you, no?

The rest of Chicago

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:24:56 -0600

Snoooooze. booooooring.

Spook

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:21:09 -0600

Dan, I love you how talk about "personal/ Ad hominem attacks" by Finkelstein and provide as a source for your position/argument, Alan Dershowitz's web site, which opens with numerous personal attacks against Finkelstein, and that's suppose to be fair? Clearly these two men hate each other, but the Zionist culture protects one, the other is savaged for telling the truth. This topic breaks down to this, those that defend Finkelstein are open minded and progressive, those that defend Dershowitz(interesting that he as managed to be so neglected in this debate)are Zionist followers that think Israel can do no wrong sheep. The liberals of course sit on the fence with their eyes closed. Finally as I listen to Sen. Joe Lieberman talk about how America should bomb Iran, I thank God for people like Finkelstein willing to tell the truth! Zionist along with the Christian right are gonna lead us right into WWIII if liberals don’t get some heart!

Ferdy

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:52:14 -0600

I honestly think Alan Dershowitz should have stayed out of it. Having an outsider with a known bias working actively to oust him was not fair to Finkelstein, DePaul, or its students. I don't know why he was denied tenure, but it would be nice if the board would make a statement in the spirit of academic openness.

LimboOlr

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:12:18 -0600

Finkelstein's firing was a travesty for academic freedom. If you fired every professor for offending someone, the halls of the academy would be very empty. That said, Finkelstein is not a sympathetic character. According to Alica: The son of Holocaust survivors, Finkelstein has sparked continued debate for expressing his opinions on what he has called "The Exploitation of Jewish Suffering" Finkelstein quoted in the Sun Times on not receiving tenure: "I would be disingenuous if I said I were not disappointed," Finkelstein said. "On the other hand, both of my parents survived the Nazi death camps. Growing up, what I remembered most was my late mother used to say, 'Some people are beasts, and there's nothing to be done with them. But what about the silence of everyone else? That I cannot understand.' Those were thoughts that left a deep mark on me." Its a bit ironic that the critic of the exploitation of jewish suffering engages in the same practice here! Regardless, Don't Sink the Fink!

James Foley

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:16:04 -0600

I am really impressed that Chicagoist is reporting on this. As one of the students attending the sit-in for the last three days, it was hard at times to know if anyone was with us beyond the DePaul community. We just were forced to end our sit-in at the President's office due to a standoff, where expulsion and police action were threatened. We have not lost, since the faculty and the world know that we will not sit idly by when politics and a flawed system come in the way of education. Also, a few things to remember about this...that 3 professors were approved at both the department and college level, after which the minority report filed by those who disagreed with the Finkelstein case came to be the main talking points for the Dean's decision. This was biased and political, not based on scholarship.

Tony

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:28:07 -0600

I went to DePaul Univerity, and I can definitely say there would be no such uproar over from students or faculty for a conservative professor. If such a beast were to exist at DePaul, had he been denied tenture for expressing his take on a topic which pits the left against the right. In this "zionist" situation you may very well have a lot of left wingers against each other it's more an issue of pro-israel vs pro-palestine. I remember there being a Israel Day function on campus once that caused a lot of yelling a screaming from those anti-Israel and those pro-Israel, first time I saw liberals pitted against each other...and very nasty too.

navin

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:04:11 -0600

Dan, Perhaps a comparison to say a prof who was gung ho pro-Israel would be more apt than a completely unrelated animal such as Creationism. You do a lot of assuming Dan, "feel good liberal" this anti-christian that. In fact if kids want to pay to take classes about Creationism that's all fine and dandy with me and personally I wouldn't be protesting in either situation. Mark, See above and whether I'm liberal or conservative or fit in any neat little box is neither here nor there. An astute conservative can just as easily see that his example was pretty off target. Besides is there an example of the school doing that? If not than why is it even on the table.

mark

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:30:06 -0600

Navin; "Ridiculous and disingenous comparison"- How so? Most of us see it as a legitimate comment. Also, are you not a liberal?? If so, why would you be upset.

dan

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:26:40 -0600

Navin- Wonderful comments on the post. Again, your contribution to the discussion lies where?... Also, what was your call?? I asked if students would protest a conservative with Christian views?? Judging by your sarcastic comment you didn't think that was a valid comparison. Regardless, you never answered the question; I have to assume you would be one of the protestors advocating for Finkelstein and not the conservative Christian. Poor Finkelstein, now he'll work in the real world and actually submit to standards and won't be promised a life-long job where he can boot lick to acadamia for the rest of his life.

Navin

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:11:59 -0600

Hey Dan, I guess everyone who doesn't agree with your ridiculous and disingenuous comparison must be a, ooh oh my god!....LIBERAL. So if you also tell me that Finkelstein quarterbacks for The Bears and I call you on it then it must be because I'm a 'liberal' not because you're simply talking crap. And here you are questioning my maturity. Whatever works for you Dan.

dan

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:24:57 -0600

Navin; turn around and pat yourself on the back, m-kay?? Feel good? Nice, I'm glad. Although you're just a feel good liberal who likes to do and say anything to stroke your pretentious better-than-everyone-else ego, before trying to comment please take a step out of lala land into reality. This will give you're arguments sound ground to stand on, rather than trying to use a coat hanger to catapult yourself over everybody else. PS- It seems like you may only understand 15 year old cell phone and IM lingo so: 'Erm, OMG!! IMO u r dumb. LMAO!!'

mike

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:10:17 -0600

Anyone else remember when Finkelstein filleted Dershowitz? That was awesome. I'd grant him tenure just for that.

Dave

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:02:07 -0600

See: www.alandershowitz.com/news.php for a bunch of things Finkelstein has been quoted as saying. I'm all for freedom of speech, but that's not at issue here, no one is censoring him. A university makes judgments about faculty in tenure decisions, and he has said some pretty awful things. Were they to remove his tenure over this it would be a different story, but this is equivalent to not hiring him with a lifetime term. Had he only criticized Israel's state actions, this would be another story, but he's repeatedly made ad hominem attacks on other researchers, and suggested that many Holocaust survivors are lying about being survivors. (Full disclosure: like Finkelstein, I am the descendant of Holocaust survivors)

navin

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:41:22 -0600

would there be student sit-ins and proffesors holding a no-confidence vote if Depaul denied tenure to a conservative who proclaimed creation was the only true story?! doubt it Erm, yeah because criticizing the state actions of Israel is the acdemically the same thing as saying dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark. M-kay bro....

justin

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:33:54 -0600

I think that folks should take the denial letter for what it says. His tenure was denied not because of what he says, but how he says it. Ad hominem attacks have no place in academia - and until Prof. Finkelstein stops making them and apologizes for the ones he has made, DePaul is right to deny him tenure. (Note: denying him tenure does not mean he is fired, it just means he doesn't essentially have a job for life.)

Alicia

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:32:18 -0600

Then you underestimate all the conservatives to go to the school, which, I have to remind you, is still a private Catholic school. That said, you and Matty still have a point about the liberal bent.

dan

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:22:45 -0600

would there be student sit-ins and proffesors holding a no-confidence vote if Depaul denied tenure to a conservative who proclaimed creation was the only true story?! doubt it

matty

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:06:52 -0600

depaul doesn't want to ruffle any feathers. the teaching staff there is extremely liberal - to a fault in most cases - and anyone who might affect endowment or enrollment will probably be fired. sooo...I dunno, depaul is just a big money maker these days.

Spook

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:03:48 -0600

Its funny how how mainstream society rants and raves about the “evils” of affirmative action and perceived threat of what they call “politically correct speech” by the disenfranzided and the powerless. But when a small but powerful minority of a minority uses its vastly disproportionate power to silence intellectual, honest socratic truth telling, its o.k. Finkelgates only crime is that he spoke Truth to power. Shame on DePaul! This decision speaks volumes about DePaul as an institution of higher learning and truth

Joseph J. Finn

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:49:37 -0600

From what I can see in the President of De Paul's completely reasonable letter (which Finkelstein strangely posted on his own web site), the objection to Finkelstein seems to be less about his opinions than about his ad hominem attacks on other scholars and his lack of contributions to the school.

Damn I am Poor!

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:20:40 -0600

DePaul at least has allowed and even encouraged students to express themselves through a sit in or other peaceful means. DePaul approved memos announcing this sit in were all over the school yestereday. Right or wrong, I commend them for allowing a dissenting voice to be heard. Now, if only we can protest the fact MBA classes are $3,000 apiece! Hey, it is a bargain compared to NU and UofC.

matt

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:16:28 -0600

One thing you cannot overlook is the negative Publicity people like this can bring to campus. I am saying nothing about his actual research, but it is obvious that it offends some people. It is worth it to a school like DePaul to always have their name associated with someone like that?