Chicagoist: YearlyKos Comes to Chicago

guest

Sun, 05 Aug 2007 10:45:24 -0600

Fishunderice: Hi sweetheart - guest 34 here. Please, please - I would love to hear what Limbaugh and O'Reilly have told you to say when asked to defend the Blackwater hired killers. Let's hear why it was okay for them to be in Iraq killing Iraqi men, women & children for money, operating outside the provisions of the Geneva Convention, and why their murders in return were so much worse than the ones they committed. By the way, do you support the death penalty? I bet you do. The Blackwater fucks murdered a bunch of folks, and then they were murdered in return - just like the government does when it hands down the death penalty. And that's justice served, right? So what's the difference here? And to guest 37: Fuck you too. My compassion is reserved for those that deserve it. These paid killer motherfuckers do not. Obviously you're of the mind that it's only American lives that are to be valued. That's the Compassionate Conservative (tm) way! There's no reason to revere anyone who kills human beings for money, no matter what country issues their passport.

Tread

Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:10:55 -0600

Fish: First, what more conservative events in Chicago do you think deserve more attention? He's probably too embarassed to mention Peter LaBarbera's obsessions with gay sex and his protesting in front of Steamworks.

guest

Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:56:11 -0600

34: Bet you are too much of a pussy to ever say that in the face of those guy's family members. No, I don't like mercenaries, only hateful wimps who likely lack the guts to kill an ant. Perhaps you are not that person, but I bet you are. And though I don't like mercencies, and am no Christian, I do understand compassion, and you have none, only a superior attitude. Go fuck yourself. (And yes, I would say that in your face.)

guest

Thu, 02 Aug 2007 13:41:49 -0600

I don't know what a "Tony Peraica" is. Sounds grafty, though. But I voted for John Engler (MI) once, yuck. I'm grossed out just thinking about it. Welcome Kos-Make the world a betetr place.

fishunderice

Thu, 02 Aug 2007 12:44:49 -0600

guest 34; you silly guy. if a bunch of hired killers came to your hometown and murdered a bunch of your family members, you wouldn't be able to fight back, yet alone set them on fire; liberals don't have guns and violence in their homes, silly!! You'd be dead as soon as they stormed in. What do you mean 'My HATE is reserved for those...' Liberals don't have hate either- what happened to 'give peace a chance'?? If I didn't know better I would think you WERE one of those hate filled warmongers you get so testy about in your post. You sound so tough and mean, but in reality I know your just a big old teddy bear. I hope your a teddy bear with a spy cam on your back though, because everybody truly is out to get you!

guest

Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:23:03 -0600

Fishunderice: Oh, please. Boo hoo hoo, Kos stated that he didn't care about the death of four mercenaries who were killed while fighting a war for profit. Why should anyone? Those men knew what kind of chances they were taking by going to Iraq to kill people. They were not there defending your freedom; they were there fattening their bank accounts, and they weren't exactly paragons of civility while doing so. Do you really believe that those men were treating the Iraqis with kid gloves? We'll never know how many people they killed or maimed - and yes, I am willing to believe they did without evidence, since there is documented evidence that the company they represented (Blackwater, not the USA) has trained their employees to use tactics of torture and death on Iraqis, and any other population they are paid to decimate. Why does the Republican administration pay non-soldiers to go to other countries to kill people? A couple of reasons come to mind: 1. Their "friends" (i.e. contributors) own thse companies, and really, what's a "war" (war on terror, my ass - since when can you fight a war on a concept?) without some old-fashioned profiteering and 2. Hired killers who are not part of the U.S. military are not bound by the provisions of the Geneva Convention. Torture away, homeboys! These guys got what they deserved. They were not there as members of the United States military - they were hired killers, paid for by our shared tax dollars at the direction of this warprofiteer administration. You want to get rich by going to Iraq to kill people for money? Then you shouldn't be surprised when retribution strikes. Fuck those guys. If a bunch of hired killers came to my hometown and murdered a bunch of my family members and friends on the basis of a made-up war, I'd want to set them on fire too. At least. And for the record, I am not affiliated with the DailyKos website at ALL. My hate is reserved for this false, illegal war and those that designed, spoke for, and continue to execute it untruthfully in the name of the American people.

pantagrapher

Thu, 02 Aug 2007 08:00:27 -0600

Ward, I didn't even know about the flap until recently. Like I tried to explain earlier: I'm not a regular Daily Kos reader. Do I understand where he's coming from? After reading his explanation, sure. He's frustrated that private contractors voluntarily go into a war zone and are paid more money by the government than our own American soldiers. Seems like a reasonable point to make. Seems like something that would make a person who served in the military—which Kos did—mad enough to blurt out something stupid and insensitive.

Ontology

Thu, 02 Aug 2007 03:26:23 -0600

He doesn't seem to realize that when you say something cruel and asinine, that it can't be made better by "explaining" it. So how do you make it better? Retract it? Apologize? Make a donation to a charity in the name of the deceased? Or do you feel saying something like this means your opinions are no longer welcome in the public (virtual) square? Do Kos' 62 words of stupidity over three years ago invalidate the work of the thousands of other people who contribute to the site today? Should people interested in progressive politics avoid the site (the largest of its kind) because the guy whose name is in the URL said something "cruel and asinine"? I'm just asking: What's the remedy?

Ward Up

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 20:44:48 -0600

".....Surely you already know that Kos explained that statement a couple days later. Read for yourselves: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/2/175739/8203....." Pantagrapher, you seem to have accepted Kos's explanation. Meanwhile, did Kos think that we are all so stupid that we had misunderstood his heartless, ignorant statement? Does he think we are in preschool? He doesn't seem to realize that when you say something cruel and asinine, that it can't be made better by "explaining" it.

fishunderice

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:33:30 -0600

Ont; The loud, obnoxious, irrelevent, 'cut a deal to go back to the sandbox while the real boys play politics', Howard Dean- yeah, thats the one.

Navin

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:22:11 -0600

Navin- Thank you for making my point! What point? Your posts are so incoherent that you seem to be about 10 million miles away from one.

Ontology

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:11:33 -0600

Real life dems can discern the difference. If dailykos were a politician it would be Howard Dean. You mean Howard Dean, the chairman of the party? Like, the leader of the Democratic party (at least until the 2008 nominating convention)? That seems like high praise to me.

guest

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:43:18 -0600

Fish, I am guest 22 And I just want to note that while I attempted to ask honest questions, you avoided them. And the fact is, like it or not (and I don't that much), Kos has pull and influence, and is a significant event as far as conferences go.

guest

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:22:44 -0600

Quit complaining, fish. This is the least bad thing Kevin has ever written. Sure, it is a piece of propaganda, and he wouldn't give such uncritical promotion if he didn't drink the kool-aid himself, but think how much worse a regular Kevin post would be? The real fun comes next year: do the "we met on a website where we don't have to interact with people who disagree with us" people get their asses handed to them in the first primary again?

fishunderice

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:20:39 -0600

....so lets just say phooey to trying to uphold any type of journalistic standard. guest22; then what makes Chicagoist different from dailykos?? both liberal blogs that write from the liberal side... why even try to report? And as far as influence, outside of political blogs, who the heck knows about dailykos? JetBlue used to be a sponsor of their convention thanks to the marketing dept. The jetblue execs had never even heard of dailykos, yet alone knew what it is- once they found out they pulled the sponsorship. I think your giving too much credit to the site even though they like to think they mouthpiece of the democratic party. Real life dems can discern the difference. If dailykos were a politician it would be Howard Dean.

timocity

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:18:28 -0600

I think I will pass on the fishunderrice magical purity test (FMPT). It sounds invasive. I think we have moved away from the point that Kos is an idiot. He can pretend to explain away the destructive and hateful sewage that often spews from his mouth, but in the end he means what he says. Also, isn't the idea of blogging that people can avoid pesky brick and morter events/meetings and even actual words on paper? These people should remain behind the glow of their screens, if they stay behind the electronic curtain it will be harder for the mob to understand that there is no wizard, only sad little men (and women) with empty ideas devoid of merit, but they do entertain. Dance monkey, dance.

pantagrapher

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:38:33 -0600

Line up for fishunderice's Magical Purity Test. It's amazing: Nobody ever passes!

guest

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:28:58 -0600

Fish: First, what more conservative events in Chicago do you think deserve more attention? Second, are any of these events expected to have the draw and influence of the Kos gathering? Just curious. Third: Of coure it is biased. It's the author's opinion, not a straight news article. Do you really expect straight news from Chicagoist? If so, do you think that would actually make people keep visiting here? As well, please explain how unpaid writers with, I assume, day jobs, should go about the heavy work of reporting straight news. All this is a long way of saying I think you expect too much from the Chicagoist-style model.

fishunderice

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:16:19 -0600

Navin- Thank you for making my point!

fishunderice

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:14:17 -0600

"I backed Tony Peraica for Cook County Board President." That was the weakest argument I've heard from a liberal trying to convince anybody of their balanced and objective opinion. But it made me smile nonetheless.

Kevin Robinson

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:00:23 -0600

I don't know why I'm surprised you would post on the daily kos convention, heaven knows you wouldn't dream of posting something postive on a conservative or republican gathering. I backed Tony Peraica for Cook County Board President.

guest

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 13:37:04 -0600

Pantagrapher: Thanks for the link and I, for one, do remember that statement. Still, the statement in my view does more harm than good for this guy. That's because he admits he was lying in the first statement about feeling nothing, and he admits to writing in the heat of the moment: two things that people with increasing amounts of political power should take care to avoid. I can't prove this, but my gut tells me the statement was merely a try at a PR band-aid strategy. Do I dismiss all of the ideas of Kos because of this incident? Of course not. I just have much less respect for the leader of the site, that's all.

Navin

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 13:34:15 -0600

fishunderice, Chicagoist is a what the kids these days call a "blog" and thus reflects the opinions of the people writing it. I don't believe they claim to be a legitimate news source, or do you guys? heaven knows you wouldn't dream of posting something postive on a conservative or republican gathering. Reason would tell you that there is nothing positive about such a gathering, not that I'd go to this Kos thing either. Kos and it's conservative counterparts usually both have such a groupthink that they're hard to enjoy. Oh and that comment you quoted by him is very callous and rude, but please, they are 'mercenaries' like it or lump it, corporate soldiers of fortune for hire.

pantagrapher

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 13:16:01 -0600

By the way, I'm not speaking as a die-hard Kos fan. I welcome the convention in part because it attracts so many of the other liberal thinkers whose ideas I do support and find illuminating—people like Glenn Greenwald, Juan Cole and Matthew Yglesias. They wouldn't all be here this weekend were it not for this event.

pantagrapher

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 13:06:22 -0600

Surely you already know that Kos explained that statement a couple days later. Read for yourselves: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/2/175739/8203

guest

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:54:46 -0600

9: What? Are you suggesting that criticizing Kos means one is a fan of O'Reilly? If so, may I buy some of the product you are smoking? I'm no fan of mercenaries, but what that guy wrote a few years back was cold and tasteless, to say the least, and pointed to his own lack of humanity and compassion. Besides, it was a huge PR blunder, the costs of which Kos and allies still are paying--not a good thing in politics.

fishunderice

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:49:56 -0600

Pantagrapher- "Remember, this is the guy who watched four American contractors burned to death and torn apart in Fallujah, then, while the bodies were still hanging from a bridge, wrote: "I feel nothing over the death of mercenaries. They are there to wage war for profits, screw them." Ok, maybe he's not an idiot, rather a heartless low-life who does not deserve the attention of publications outside the realm of his personal computer guest; No, not at all actually, although I did do a search for o'reilly and daily kos and found loads of great peacefully, loving, democratic ideals being espoused by daily kos.-Thanks for giving me the idea. Do you defend and believe in the things said on that site too? Kevin- You're right, maybe not as much of a mistake, as an ideological tug serving to distance Chicagoist readers; weather wrong or right. I can't remember the last time you (or chicagoist) have posted a politically unbiased view. I don't know why I'm surprised you would post on the daily kos convention, heaven knows you wouldn't dream of posting something postive on a conservative or republican gathering.

Ward Up

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:47:57 -0600

Liberals always seemed surprised to learn that many Chicagoist participants are Republicans. From what I have seen, though, they are usually pro-choice, pro-gay rights Republicans. I guess I am in that category. I consider Daily Kos to be loaded with bad ideas. However, I have no problem with Kevin Robinson reporting on their meeting here. Regardless how I feel about them, the Yearly Kos being held in Chicago seems to event worthy of mention in Chicagoist. Mr. Robinson pointed out, through the "left-wing" reference, that the group has a particular bent. That adds balance to the fact that Chicagoist is helping to publicize the event while providing information to the reader. Thus, the article seems OK.

guest

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:40:36 -0600

There are left wing nut jobs and then there are the right wing nut jobs. Be nice to have some left of centers.

doppler

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:33:27 -0600

Kevin, "left-wing" is a pretty loaded phrase and tends to be used pejoratively. Or am I nuts?

guest

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:29:13 -0600

Looks like Chicagoist has some O'Reilly fans in the house.

pantagrapher

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:27:47 -0600

Fish, who exactly are "these people" and "these idiots"? The website founder asking for civility or the commenter you quote?

Kevin Robinson

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:25:14 -0600

fishunderice: If we write about things going on in the city that are unique and interesting, why is reporting on YearlKos's convention in Chicago "a mistake on Chicagoist's part"? Not looking for a flame war; just genuinely curious about the reasoning.

fishunderice

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:17:12 -0600

Lending any relevance to these people is a mistake on Chicagoist's part, but more so any politician who gets in stride with them. A simple search produces countless issues with these idiots- The qoute below lambasts the founder of this site from his own letter appealing to his 'members' asking them to be nice. Markos “Screw Them” Moulitsas appeals for civility: Daily Kos: ‘With us or against us’. "-As I wrote yesterday, “Just doesn’t look right to be dissing the military when Kos is trying so hard to be the voice of the Democratic Party.” There has lately been an alarming rise in diaries and comments that seek to impugn (without evidence) the motives of those they disagree with on various issues. Yes, there’s the impeachment stuff, but this nasty rhetoric is also rampant in the primary war diaries. This points to a serious breakdown not just on civility, but in the ability of people to properly debate various issues. As such, it presents a serious threat to the integrity of this site. I much prefer it when the community moderates itself, and for the most part it does a good job of this. The libertarian in me prefers it that way. But sometimes, self-moderation isn’t enough. I’ll act swiftly and mercilessly when I’m pushed into defending the effectiveness of this site. And at this moment, my patience is wearing thin. Reasonable people, including progressives, can disagree on many of the big issues we face today — from which candidate to support in the primary, to whether impeachment is the best way to hold this administration accountable, to the merit of gun control or free trade agreements, to how to handle immigration, to whatever else faces our nation. As a site, we strive to provide a safe haven for debate on these matters without it getting — as has happened of late — so damn ugly. This is my one and only warning on the matter. I’ll try to be an optimist and hope that this is the last time I’ll have to address it. I won’t let this site become as nasty as your typical usenet forum, and those who encourage that sort of environment should consider themselves duly warned."- Remember, this is the guy who watched four American contractors burned to death and torn apart in Fallujah, then, while the bodies were still hanging from a bridge, wrote: "I feel nothing over the death of mercenaries. They are there to wage war for profits, screw them."

guest

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 11:54:28 -0600

How exactly does the Internet reach communities rather than just individuals? I hear this community phrase all the time, usually in the form of PR slop. KOS is great, except when it shows its far-left screeching mob tendencies. The same can be said for various right-wing sites as well, of course, when it comes to the far right.

jayho

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 10:43:17 -0600

I only know about KOS from what I have read on their site. Many of those people are supporters of any politician who is a "Democrat", and they do not appear to place any importance on how those politicians actually vote. 8th District Congresswoman Melissa Bean is an example of a registered Republican who became a Democrat in order to run for office. Many KOS bloggers support Bean even though she has voted along with the Republicans (and Bush) on many key issues, such as CAFTA and funding for the war in Iraq. Recently, a very conservative Republican, State Senator Paul Froelich, became a Democrat. Will KOS support him too? Paul Froelich The Illinois GOP is not dying, it is just reforming as Democrat. They ought to run a screening of "Invasion of The Body Snatchers" at McCormick Place this week.

pantagrapher

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 10:03:19 -0600

I can already smell the burning sulfur.

Tread

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:50:10 -0600

Hooray! The Great Orange Satanists will soon arrive!

pantagrapher

Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:04:25 -0600

Woohooooooooooooo!