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Chicago Gets Googled
So the folks over at BP have been listening to your - and our - reservations over their plans to increase the level of pollution they can dump into Lake Michigan from the planned expansion of their Whiting, Indiana refinery. They even met with opponents of the expansion yesterday.
So why are we not surprised that BP said that they're doing it anyway? BP America vice chairman Stephen A. Elbert said that the planned expansion for the Whiting refinery is necessary to keep up with Midwest energy demands. Elbert also claimed that he doesn't think the increase in ammonia and other waste by-products of oil refining discharged into Lake Michigan once the refinery's expansion is complete in 2011 won't damage the water quality. "Unfortunately, we're not able to design and operate an emission-free refinery. The technology does not exist. What we will commit to is to continuously improve our process," he said.
We find this more than slightly insulting coming from a high-ranking official for an oil company that regularly touts its initiatives in alternative energy practices in its advertising. Elbert did say that some of the ideas posited by opponents of the refinery's expansion to reduce pollution discharge were ideas that BP would consider, including adding extra filtering that would reduce the amount of ammonia and solid discharge. Elbart replied that, while these were good ideas they would have experts at Purdue and Argonne National Labratory examine, "There's quite a space of what someone proposes on paper and what will work in the field. We can't just arbitrarily throw something in and pray that it works."
The meeting came a day after the EPA said that they could also do nothing about the expansion, but would work to persuade BP to consider alternatives to dumping directly into Lake Michigan, including diverting some of the waste to a nearby water treatment plant. We thought it rich of Elbart's to infer that it's because of us that BP needs to expand the Whiting refinery. But the EPA essentially pulling a Pontius Pilate and saying that they can't do anything outside of recommending alternatives for BP causes us to scratch our heads. Last we checked, the EPA is the government agency tasked with protecting the environment. They could do more than just offer options. For example, they could pull the permit until BP works with the community to comes up with ways to reduce pollution discharge that are satisfactory to both sides. We'll also hazard a guess that Elbart's assertion that there's a difference between what's proposed and what would actually work is code for "if it falls within the budget parameters of the expansion, we'll include it."
Elbart said that BP "has a gun to (its) head, so to speak." Considering the plans of an environmentally-friendly oil company (two terms we always thought were mutually exclusive) to expand and increase the pollution levels of the world's largest source of fresh water in the face of stiff and vocal opposition, we have our doubts as to who truly has the gun to their head, and who's holding the gun.
Image courtesy of Art not Oil. (via)
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Elbert doesn't think it will damage water quality?
I don't know about the rest of you, but that's precisely the level of reassurance I was looking for. Guess it's time to move on.
"...the EPA is the government agency tasked with protecting the environment."
Tasked by the citizens, but controlled by the Bush administration. Guess who loses that one every time?
This is an absolute fuckstorm of bullshit.
One thing everyone is forgetting is that this process has been years in the making. BP had begun the application process for these permits several years ago, which required community meetings, EPA meetings, and dialogue and discussion with communities. That does not make the dumping right, but it does shed some light on the johnny-come-latelies out there who are 'insulted' by BPs decisions and are just not making a huge deal about it.
Where were you when you actually could have done something about this, rather than just complain about it??
Ok Chuck,
What's your magic wand solution? The refinery industry is running above "capacity." We need more, especially in the midwest. The discharges we are talking about seem to range somewhere between "small" and "trivial."
Regardless of how careful they are, I will never buy gas at a BP again.
And by the way, isn't ammonia a good by-product for fertilizing crops and whatnot? Perhaps it's another form that cannot be useful, but couldn't it by processed as well to make it useful?
That's good. Never buy gas at a BP again. Buy it from Citgo. Everyone loves Hugo Chavez.
Love the naivete here.
Guest 2 - I hate to say that there was nothing we could do, but I've seen the EPA all but vanish before my eyes. With a toothless EPA where ties always go to industry, I doubt that all these great public comment periods were anything but an exercise in futility. They may follow the letter of the law, but not its spirit. With a government that outrageously disregards the will of the people it is supposed to serve, your outrage at so-called johnny-come-latelies (who may not have been able to attend meetings or even known about them) is extremely misplaced and insulting.
Guest2: the anger arises from the fact that despite community opposition, regulators pretty much ignored the public and granted BP its dumping exemption anyway. You can sit on the sidelines and keep your mouth shut if you want to, but shouting down people who are concerned with what they see as a breakdown in the system isn't constructive.
Guest3: Your personal reassurance about the pollution levels will weigh heavily on my opinion going forward.
Who designed the graphic? I'd like to use it for a public protest.
Gotta love it, Ferdy all helpless, throwing up her hands in surrender at the prospect of Chicago's Lake Michigan getting polluted, because thier is "nothing we can do"
But when it comes to fighting over a stupid department store, its lets rally the troops!
p.s the official gas of for my vespa always purcahsed at Cito cause I think Hugo Chavez is a breath of fresh air
spook; the $1.00 you provide chavez goes towards a round of ammo to enforce his rule of law. you might as well hammer 4 quarters into a venezuelan citizen or journalists head.
Spook - Why not walk? That's pure enough for you, right?
At least corporations listen to their bottom lines. I've given up making the Bushies listen to anything. They've got permanent earwax as thick at the Antarctic ice cap.
guest 10, care to demonstrate where Chavez used
violent force in his country? Of course I can demonstrate how the US assisted in destablizing his government. Also I don't even want to know how much I'm "spending" on killing people all over the word visa via the American miliarty.
p.s speaking of I hear rumor that Iraq and Afganistan aint really working out for us?
That's good. Never buy gas at a BP again. Buy it from Citgo. Everyone loves Hugo Chavez.
Love the naivete here.
I don't recall the poster mentioning Citgo, even so Chavez is a saint in comparison to BP. Oh and yeah, another positive he's got going for him: he's not trying to take a giant daily shit into my drinking water.
Where were you when you actually could have done something about this, rather than just complain about it??
lol, we probably weren't in one of the communities in Indiana that were maaaaaybe consulted about it.
I am realizing that some commenters are, strangely, Chavez admirers. Maybe Hugo Chavez could do a commercial with his buddy Sean Penn to pick up some of that lost BP business.
Chavez: "BP rotten. Citgo good."
Penn (as Jeff Spicolli): "Gnarly!"
Actually, Navin, not only is Chavez not taking a giant shit in your drinking water, Chavez has been subsidizing heating costs for poor people in THIS country, not just his own.
Yeah, its a PR thing, but I'd rather have heating for poor old folks than drinking a nice glass of Lake Michigan Sludge Water, brought to you by BP.
BP's history in recent years is increasingly horrific on environmental issues. The more they market as an environmentally progressive oil company, the worse their environmental record actually gets.
And while Chavez is clearly turning into a dictator, he did not come into power with, nor has he maintained power with violence. Quite unlike Pervez Musharref in Pakistan, who came to power through a coup (a bloodless one, but that doesn't mean that there weren't soldiers armed with AK-47s aimed at the former PM) and who maintains his power with military actions, further galvanizing public opinion in Pakistan in favor of extremist groups aligned with the Taliban (which was once supported by Musharref).
Now, which Dictator is the evil one? The one who shares his country's oil wealth with the (vast majority) poor folk, or the guy who sends jackbooted soldiers to your door?
Hey Ward,
I know it hurts what you're trying to prove here but saying one thing is less damaging than another doesn't mean you "admire" either of them.
The meeting came a day after the EPA said that they could also do nothing about the expansion, but would work to persuade BP to consider alternatives to dumping directly into Lake Michigan, including diverting some of the waste to a nearby water treatment plant.
god, how have we been fucked the last 8 years? let me count the ways.
i want to go out and kick the ass of every moderate that voted for bush in either of the last two elections. he is responsible for this. this and roberts as supreme court justice and a ton of other shit that's going to have major repurcussions for years, decades to come.
god, i'm so depressed. the great lakes are were so beautiful, and they just keep getting destroyed more and more each year.
i'll never buy from BP again either. i'm with navin.
I think it's funny the way some people invoke the name of Hugo Chavez as if it calls forth some sort of mythic demon ... much the same way people used to invoke Saddam Hussein. Ask these people to name one act of evil by Chavez, though (as spook did ... God, I hate us being on the same side), and people are strangely silent. Why? Because they know absolutely nothing about Hugo Chavez except that somebody somewhere in government, probably a Bush, said he was bad.
Come on, people. You've got the internet, for God's sake. Give me a reason. Tell me why Hugo Chavez is evil. Show me how he enforces his iron rule.
So I guess it's BP holding a gun to our heads saying "Drive your car!!!! Waste gas and drive up the price!!!!"
I'm as against BP and the Whiting deal as anyone here, but we have to accept our role in this. If we didn't buy their product, BP wouldn't be doing this. The only real power we have is to stop driving, stop buying gas.
Guest 15,
Very true but Chavez serves as a good 'red under the bed' for dull witted junior conservatives who have a short memory of U.S. interference in Latin America and around the world. He also doesn't kneel down to take the Presidents member which makes him the nail that needs to hammered down. Ol' Pervez may be a dictator, terrorist pamperer, and nuke owner but he pays the Bush administration lip service and knows his place. Same reason you rarely see these zOMG Chavez is teh devil! folks complaining about China.
The notion that BP is an environmentally friendly oil company is laughable in the extreme to anyone who has followed BP's atrocious management of the Alaskan oil fields. BP is notoriously BAD when it comes to environmental issues and concerns. This is not the first thing they've pulled, and I guarantee it will not be the last.
If you want to purchase gas from a more responsible oil company, I'd urge you to buy gas from Chevron. Though no oil company is perfect (and will never be perfect...their products are inherently harmful to the environment), Chevron has taken huge steps to limit their impact, both in this country and abroad.
Thinking that Chavez is a benevolent dictator is naive at best. Chavez subsidizes programs for the poor as a way to remain in power, not because of any altruistic feelings. And his desire to nationalize the oilfields down there (ones that American companies paid to develop) is going to increase the price of oil and gas on a worldwide scale, and make the situation worse, not better. He may not be Satan incarnate, but he's not a nice guy, and he is certainly not someone who has anyone other than his own best interests at heart.
MY MONEY IS WHERE MY MOUTH IS- NO BP FOR ME or MY FAMILY.
IT'S ALL I CAN DO.........
Who cares? I drink Evian from the French Alps. And I bathe in Moet, because I'm just that rich.
All oil companies pollute. Just because one does it locally doesn't make it worse than the others.
"And his desire to nationalize the oilfields down there (ones that American companies paid to develop"
How dare he try to take back those Banna republicly gained properties and interests, the United States "created" and exploited under American then packed puppet rullers!
And remember, he also wantd to donate free gas to the CTA, but Kruise said "we don't need it"
Funny how all the poor people like him down there while the rich hate him. Its also funny how he got all into changing thier constitution after America worked to over throw him. Given his popullarity and our well the world hates out guts, some body better think about change
I am aware of why many people in Latin America turn to leaders such as Chavez, and am I aware how dirty the hands of USA are.
That said, that anyone would defend Chavez, more a dictator than a democrat, and an enemy of free speech (and, according to the recent Ecomomist, a corrupt piece of shit as well, as he rewards the well connected and rich), is simply sad. He has shut down media; he is building up the military so he can better dominate the region; and he has engaged in reckless, cynical populism that Huey Long, another budding dicatator of the people, would have been proud of. And now he is trying to change the country's constitution so he can be president for life. Yeah, that's someone to praise. One hopes he will one day meet the ideal fate of tyrants.
Then again, certain assholes still sport Che shirts proudly, as though we were anything but a totalitarian at heart. (This doesn't apply the assholes who sport Che shirts cluelessly as some dumb fashion accessory.) Seriously, have these people read anything more about Che than his motorcycle travels?
No, I am not a Republican, so fucking save it.
"How dare he try to take back those Banna republicly gained properties and interests, the United States "created" and exploited under American then packed puppet rullers!"
The development of the Venezuelan oil fields had nothing to do with politics, nor is Chavez's desire to nationalize them some sort of "take back what is mine from the evil ones who took it." The oil companies who developed the oil fields (not all American, but several are) signed a contract with the country with regards to that development. The oil companies invested the money (not Venezuela) to build the drills and pipeline and infrastructure. They didn't do this out of benevolence...they did it so they could reap the financial rewards of drilling the oil. Now they are being forced to hand over their previously negotiated share of the profits on that oil (note that Venezuela already got a share of that profit too). My point was two-fold: one, Chavez isn't a pure, nice guy like most Chavez defenders like to paint him. 2, when Chavez succeeds in this takeover, he will have even more control over the world oil market, that very market which drives our gas prices. Therefore, going to Citgo isn't really in our (as consumers) best interests.
While I realize that making any anti-Chavez person into a cold, heartless devil is the current "in" thing to do, it would probably be better if people would actually do some in-depth research about the subject before saying that it's just a bunch of rich people who are just mad that he's helping poor people.
more a dictator than a democrat, and an enemy of free speech (and, according to the recent Ecomomist, a corrupt piece of shit as well, as he rewards the well connected and rich), is simply sad. He has shut down media; he is building up the military so he can better dominate the region; and he has engaged in reckless, cynical populism that Huey Long, another budding dicatator of the people, would have been proud of. And now he is trying to change the country's constitution so he can be president for life. Yeah, that's someone to praise. One hopes he will one day meet the ideal fate of tyrants.
I thought we were talking about Chavez, not Bush/Cheny....
Oh my bad, I read that out of context.
Spook- Get a damn clue about life beyond your self congratulatory soap box, and stop asking for stupid shit- this is the first of thousands of pages that came up under a simple google search
"UPDATE- This has been updated below since Hugo Chavez sent tanks in for the first time to an opposition rally!
There is very sad news from Venezuela this weekend.
Hugo Chavez is proceeding with his plan to silence all opposition.
The doors to freedom are closing in Venezuela.
Supporters of Radio Caracas Tv (RCTV) weep during a protest march in Caracas May 26, 2007.Tens of thousands of Venezuelan protesters marched on Saturday to the Caracas headquarters of an anti-government television station, which is being forced off the air after President Hugo Chavez's administration refused to renew its broadcasting license. (REUTERS/Carlos Garcia Rawlins)
A. M. Mora y Leon has pirctures from the protest today against the Chavez regime.
It is so disheartening to see the people of Venezuela quickly disappear under the Marxist blanket made by Hugo Chavez.
This weekend was an important step for Chavez in silencing the opposition in Venezuela.
Thousands of demonstrators participate of a march in Caracas, in support of private broadcaster RCTV (Radio Caracas Television). They rallyed in support of the country's oldest and defiantly anti-government network which is set to go off the air Sunday after the government refused to renew its broadcast license.(AFP/Juan Barreto)
Daniel at Venezuela News and Views wrote me about this Venezuelan national emergency.
Here is his plea:
Dear Friends:
At some point I have been in touch with all of you. Most of you write, or have written, great blogs in the past, blogs who have had the kindness to worry about what is happening in Venezuela under Chavez; blogs that go from left to the right written by people who have enough of a brain to understand that the few good intentions that Chavez professes are not enough to make the happiness of his people, even if he is able to fool a large chunk of them.
As you might know, next Sunday (today) Chavez is getting ready to shut down the main opposition TV network, RCTV, which has an average rating floating around 40%. The simple reason is politics even though the Chavez administration has advanced a lot of spurious arguments. International condemnations are raining over Venezuela, noteworthy an unusual unanimous resolution of the US Senate who sees Kennedy, Clinton and Obama next to Lugar and Mc Cain signing as co-sponsors.
Needless to say that the hour is crucial.
Miguel at Devil's Excrement and myself at Venezuela News & Views have been writing extensively on the matter. After the dispiriting December elections we are now basically the last two bloggers covering the Venezuelan day to day situation in English.
Thus my request for today. Please, do try to follow this extremely important development as Chavez finally comes out of his fascist closet to show the dictator that he has been all along. Closing RCTV is a major restriction in freedom of information, a preliminary step before freedom of expression. And a stepping stone to more autocracy. For all practical purpose Venezuela is now a military ruled state with the paradox that the army did not even need to make a coup! there will be plenty of information through our blogs, and you are welcome to write to either one of us for any details you might need if you wish to post something to that effect, to help two solitary bloggers who might sooner than later be under attack. Do not forget that Chavez has nationalized the main Telecom business of Venezuela last week, the telecom which controls more than 80% of the Internet and thus control of Internet is now a distinct possibility for the government. That is, assuming chavismo has the skills to control Internet, which I doubt personally. However countries like China or Iran have shown many creative ways to put pressure on bloggers. And they are Chavez allies.
Thank you for any help you can bring to our cause over the next week.
Fausta interviewed Thor Halvorssen, President and CEO of the Human Rights Foundation, Daniel Duquenal of Venezuela News and Views, Miguel Octavio, of The Devil's Excrement, and oil industry expert Gustavo Coronel.
Fausta has the important podcast interview posted HERE.
The podcast is very good. The international community does not understand the vast abuse on the people of Venezuela. Rule of law, private property rights, and freedom of press are all now absent under the Chavez regime.
UPDATE: This photo from the Publius post...
Chavez sent in the tanks today to the opposition protest- a first.
For the first time today, Hugo Chavez has sent in tanks to the city centers to line up against the opposition protesting his Marxist takeover of the media:
Mr. Chavez also warned of possible efforts to sabotage the new public channel, and he said security forces are prepared to respond.
Venezuelan army tanks and security forces deployed across the capital and other cities ahead of the protests, which are expected to continue Sunday.
Army General Juan Paredes Torrealba said the military is authorized to guard against possible violence. He says they are not expecting disorder or disturbances from small groups of people, but if there is trouble, the armed forces are prepared to act.
Chavez warned (via BBC): "Venezuelan armed forces are ready. Anyone generating violence will regret it."
Don't quit your day job, kevin.
While I realize that making any anti-Chavez person into a cold, heartless devil is the current "in" thing to do,
I suppose any person who's read some balanced news on the subject and doesn't believe some of the wild exagerations about him must then be pro-Chavez even if they don't consider themselves to be.
The arguments against him on here have been so nuanced, scholarly, free of personal opinion and exageration. For example: "He has shut down media", revoking the license of one station that supported a coup and strike against him, (faked footage that incited violence even) and simply broadcasts on cable and satellite now is hardly "shutting down the media", however bad an idea it was. I call stuff like that bullshit exageration so that must mean I love Chavez!
BP. Lake Michigan. Focus.
Uh, Navin, he is trying to shut down media that he feels is against him. You might want to read a bit more.
Hey Navin are you suggesting that folks like Guest 28 should actually do some balanced fact checking as opposed to typing "Chavez Bad, evil, devil" into google and cut and pasting the results on Chicagoist,
I mean do do real fact checking would be why UnAmerican right?
Uh, Navin, he is trying to shut down media that he feels is against him. You might want to read a bit more.
There's those scholary and nuanced arguments I was talking about: "read more".
I second pantagrapher,
Let's get back to BP and the lake.
I get the impression that nobody here wants to hear what BP and those not aligned with Durbin and Emanuel have to say, but for those open minded enough to at least consider the other side's take on things, check out this link. Yes, it is a link to the evil BP's website, but be brave - you can do it. Godspeed to you all!
http://whiting.bp.com/go/site/1550/
Hi, my name is Navin; I just want you to know that I will not agree with anyone, and I cannot take constructive criticism. Although I condone disagreeing with everyone under the sun, I will not apologize for my inept ability to persue the truth and facts in my own life.
That having been said, I jerk off to Chicagoist (while spook watches).
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=a7HcgdNBYyPw&refer=latin_america
Navin- tell us your thoughts again on this big fluffy teddy bear of a dictator.
OOOOOOOOOOHhhhhhhh, thats right- it's Bush's fault your a jackass, I forgot.
Corporate shill, AKA guest 35,
I went to the site and read what BP had to say as soon as Chicagoist was kind enough to provide a link-for-cash, and I found no new information I hadn't already read elsewhere. All that's there is BP's assurance it's not doing anything bad, that what they're dumping is as pure as the Baby Jesus's diapers, that they are within the legal limits set by the least environmentally friendly administration ever, and that they're doing it for our own good. It looks a lot like BP press releases I've seen in other places, including Alaska when they did their damndest to erase any public notice about the collapse of their pipeline in Prudhoe Bay, thanks to years of neglected maintenance in an era of record profits. I've learned that BP's not going to say anything useful, and everything they do say is a lie.
On the other hand, I kind of wish I could break into BP's marketing department. I've always wanted to get paid for writing fiction.
Lake Michigan water before BP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnyHfa3YcJs
Lake Michigan water after BP:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/253357/swill_mineral_water/
why are our region's drivers getting off scott-free on this? everyone blames BP, but BP has a point that the Midwest consumes a lot of gas. there's a reason BP is polluting, and that reason is you, driving public. if we want to make any significant difference in our environment, we should cut to the chase and start learning how to live without driving everywhere and wasting so many resources!
Come join us in us Wednesday in Indianapolis. Bring a friend and a television news crew!!!!
An Indiana government oversight committee will conduct a formal hearing on August 22nd into the Indiana Department of Environmental Management's decision to grant a wastewater discharge permit to BP Amoco in Whiting.
The hearing of the Administrative Rules Oversight Committee will begin at 9:30 a.m. on that date in Room 401 in the Indiana Statehouse.
The hearing is open to the public. Any citizen is welcome to submit written testimony or petitions in advance. Statements may be mailed to Scott Pelath's office at 200 West Washington Street, Indianapolis, IN 46204.
Eddie Vedder VS BP polluting LAKE MICHIGAN lollapalooza 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKORWcj7Sio
Pearl Jam's "Don't Go BP Amoco" Song!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj-dleVlHDY&NR=1
Students protest BP's lake pollution
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/499496,6_1_NA07_PROTEST_S1.article
For those of you organizing at Lollapalooza for the August 22 government oversight committees BP hearing and associated activities in Indianapolis:
Hotels and campground information is available at http://indy.org/
Charter bus service information is available at http://www.usabuscharter.com
August 22nd BP Hearing Information:
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=24567
BP just got a new CEO because the previous leader failed to invest in infrastructure and safety.
This became obvious when BP's Texas refinery exploded killing 15 workers and injuring 450+ others and their Alaskan Pipeline sprung leaks and was shut down. “After Action Studies” revealed that the company had severely neglected refinery and pipeline maintenance and modernization. Now they are trying to play catch up by making large investments in their refineries and pipelines which should have been made long ago.
It’s now time to make those deferred investments in the Whiting Refinery and do it correctly without cutting more corners for short term gains. Pollution control investments should not be an after thought in this industry.
Chicago Sun Times Calls For Boycott of BP
http://www.suntimes.com/news/commentary/514460,CST-EDT-edits17.article
35/36
Thanks yet again for proving my point that your argument amounts to "Yeah, well shut up jackass!". I'll assume since you have nothing to say on the subject besides schoolyard insults that you must know that there's something to what I'm saying and are very frustrated about it.
State probing Munster BP crude leak
http://www.nwi.com/articles/2007/08/21/updates/breaking_news/doc46cad6a8ead27276557175.txt