September 4, 2007
Zambrano Lashes Out at Cubs Fans
Way to go, Cubs fans! Well, at least those of you at Wrigley Field on Monday. You really upset Carlos Zambrano, your $91 million man, by booing him off the mound in the fifth inning of an 11-3 loss to the Dodgers. He pointed to his head to let the fams know he could hear them.
And his postgame press conference, Zambrano let fans know what he thought of their gesture:
I don't accept that the fans were booing at me. I can't understand that. You know, I thought these were the greatest fans in baseball. But they showed me today that they just care about them, and that's not fair, because when you're struggling, you want to feel the support of the fans.
Over at the Trib, Mike Downey places the blame for the situation squarely on Z, saying that his comments were both disrespectful and reckless in light of his new deal and the team's impending sale.
At the Sun-Times, Jay Mariotti also shakes his finger at Zambrano, for lashing out at Cubs fans who simply want to see a World Series played in their park after a 99 year drought.
In his last five starts, Zambrano is 0-5 with an ERA of north of 9.00. Not exactly ace type stuff. Not even fifth starter type stuff. For a while, some thought his first couple sub par outings were caused by the distraction of negotiating his big new deal. But since placing his signature on the new deal he's pitched no better!
With the Cubs thick in the middle of a division race and their high-paid ace is melting down, do the Cubs fans have a right to be pissed? Chicagoist would certainly say so. If the Cubs do end up missing the playoffs this year, Zambrano could be in for a long five years.
Photo by AP Photo/Brian Kersey
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Wrigley fans have always been hot and cold.
Sammy was better than oxygen one day, and run out of town the next. The only loyalty those people have is to the ballpark itself.
I've never understood booing your own team. Maybe I have class?
Zambrano has had some issues, but is it really time to start booing the guy?
If we are gonna beat this curse we need positive energy. These Boo-Birds should save their $50 and watch at home. All you bandwagon Cubs fans should please exit now- we don't want you.
Booing is not fun - even when the Cubs absolutely suck it doesn't make the game better. If I catch you in the stadium Booing- I will turn around and make fun of you until you cry.
I never understood Cubs fans--why on earth would you continue to support an organization that for years has put out an inferior product? This is more than baseball, after all--this is capitalism, paying for tickets and food and all the other things that enrich people other than yourselves.
I guess this goes along with how so many people in Chicago support inferior politicians even with lackluster civic results and nonstop corruption. Is there something in the air or water up here that turns people into sheep?
I think a guy who makes that much money and fails to perform can handle a few boos. What a spoiled wuss.
I'm typically not a fan of at-home booing. But seriously, Z has looked like shit the last few games. And he had no wins the entire month of august. Peoples' patience is simply wearing thin.
I'm not really a fan of booing either, but Z deserves it. I get that players make mistakes because they're human, but what he's doing is something else. He's a mental case. It's so easy to get into his head and once you do, he completely unravels. You can usually pinpoint the moment where something happens that really gets to him. Yesterday it was running through the call at third and getting tagged out at home. Not only did that probably exhaust him but it pissed him off because he places a high premium on being an offensive threat. So he goes out in the next inning pissed off because he got thrown out at home and exhausted because he ran from first to home. And the next inning he gives up 3 runs.
Latinos...
I do not understand booing your home team. It's like when I see parents smacking their kids in the store to stop them from crying.
I don't care if they make eleventy bajillion dollars, that doesn't give anyone the "right" to treat someone like crap. Just because you're rich doesn't give the masses the right to treat you however they please.
Leah: Masses can do whatever they please, including booing. Spare me your outrage. You pay for a product, you expect to get something out of it. And make no mistake: A baseball team is a product.
Fuck you guest 7.
Running through a stop sign at 3rd and getting nailed at the plate for the first out of an inning is bad baseball -- and just plain stupid.
Deflecting a grounder (with his pitching hand, mind you) that would have otherwise been a routine ground-out is bad baseball.
Sulking on the mound and not backing up home plate is bad baseball -- and a selfish act in what is supposed to be a team sport.
Walking 3 batters in an inning and giving up a 2-RBI hit to Loaiza is bad baseball.
I don't care who it is or how much they make or if their feelings are hurt: Bad, stupid, sloppy baseball deserves booing, and that's all there is to it. And Zambrano should remember who exactly it is that is paying his salary.
Guest 11...exactly! That's the problem. Everyone has a bad day or makes a bad play or whatever, but Z has been playing stupid baseball for the last month and he's all out of excuses. The contract is signed, Barrett is gone, what else is there to do but go out there and pitch like the staff ace. Unless he's hurt, there's no excuse for a month plus of bad pitching.
I love these comments from (presumably) Sox fans: First we Cub fans are derided as being naive saps for cheering the "Lovable Losers" of past years, no matter how horrible they've been. Now we go and boo a tremendously shitty performance, and we're only loyal "to the ballpark itself."
You Sox fans have got to be the saddest group of wannabe, self-made chip on your shoulder, inferiority complex-ridden losers in all of baseball fandom. Either that, or you're idiots. Or both. In any case, worry about the head case costing you games in your own dugout, and we'll worry about our head case losing games on the mound (and happily continue ignoring you). kthxbye.
#11 here: It'd be one thing if it was a matter of him making his pitches and just getting hit -- that happens. But continuing to make stupid, stupid decisions and consistently perform below his capability -- during the height of a playoff race -- isn't something that it'd be right to just ignore. It's unsatisfactory, and I can't blame the folks who pay to see him perform voice their dissatisfaction. I can't blame 'em one bit.
Personally, I don't think that booing a team implies a lack of support. You're still supporting the team by going to the games. And fans who "boo" clearly still care about the team... otherwise, they would have no reaction, or not go to the games altogether.
If you're unsatisfied with the product that you paid to watch, it's within your right to express your feelings by booing the team. I'm a Sox fan, for the record. I've done plenty of booing this year.
"You Sox fans have got to be the saddest group of wannabe..."
I'm a Sox fan, what exactly do I wanna be?
Personally I think the comparison to Sosa is apt for another reason-steroids. Watching Zambrano rage on the mound, break bats at the plate, and break faces (of his teammate) in the locker room leads me to that conclusion. Why assume the abusers are all hitters?
I'm happy Cubs fans boo now for the sole reason that it diminishes (somewhat) the idea that they are all Trixies who gladly accept BS year after year. Talk about sad. I've heard people rant that Sox fans have filled Comiskey this year for a losing team and thus are like the Cubs' fans. Yeah, if you take 2005 out of that analogy it's appropriate. A two year honeymoon is not exactly excessive.
This argument is way old. Wrigley would be packed every day if the Sox played there. It's the stadium, silly. But I digress. Boo Zambrano till it hurts.
Booing shows you care, that you're not just sitting there to get drunk and work on your tan. If fans didn't really care about the game, they wouldn't boo. I do think Cubs fans can be a little too quick to boo but after 98 years, what do you expect? That being said, most Cubs players don't really understand that level of misery but that's not really their fault. Most of them are only temporary members of Cubs nation, be it for their whole playing career or a few years.
guest #9: I'm hardly outraged. Lawrd. I just think it's tacky. And mostly futile.
Why are Latinos so angry?
Leah: Mostly futile?
Well, if you overlook the massive media coverage, and the questions about what kind of product the Cubs are putting on the field, and whether that product was a waste of money, then I guess I see your point.
Tacky? Well, you probably think fans should just shut up and accept the status quo, then, right?
The guys sucks and fans don't like him. Booing sounds like the least offensive way to let the player know. I mean, it's not like booing involves throwing shit on the field, or trying to run on there yourself.
People have been booing for years (likely 99 of 'em) and what's changed?
I think they should accept the product they're content enough to drop $50 on year after year after booing year.
This is a business & if business suffers, then perhaps someone will see fit to make changes. For now, games sells out, mgmt. makes like they're making a move every off season & drops craptons of $ on high profile, frequently underwhelming/injured names.
As best I can tell this business is not sufferening. Lots of people are making lots of bank and they get paid pennant or not.
It's sweet to think the team wants to "win it for the fans", though.
This is why I say it's futile. Actions speak louder than words. Quit buying tickets. Piss & moan all you want but as long as your butt is in that seat, that's all they need as reinforcement to keep on keepin' on.
I am a Cubs fan, I should say. And I feeeeel the pain. I love those boys & I don't feel right kicking them when they're down. That's why I say booing is like smacking a crying kid in the face to get them to stop crying.
I feel we'll never agree on this, though, guest(s) 20 &/or 9. s'okay.
Booing players is bad sportsmanship. It always has been and always will be. Fans that boo are idiots. There is rarely a justification for it and arguing about players salaries or the Cubs long history of coming up short doesn't justify booing anyone, especially a player on one's own team. About the only people you can boo are the umpires and that's when a call is obviously wrong. The only people I have ever known to boo were either completely uninformed about baseball, sore losers or simply drunk and going along with the crowd. Take your pick on which asshole you want to be the next time you decide to boo a player at a baseball game. And remember, booing isn't a reflection on the player so much as a reflection on the fans. Keep on booing and Wrigley Field losses its luster and becomes another shitty, run-down ballpark instead of the revered place that it currently is. Booing doesn't show you care about the team. Deciding to continue to show up at the ball park shows you care about the team. Booing shows you have no respect for the game.
Leah: OK. Good points. I still don't mind booing, but you make a strong case.
I don't boo, by the way. Then again, I am a Cards fan and have had only a few chances to do so over my lifetime.
i can see both sides of this issue. what i can't understand is cubs fans generally.
a) masochists
b) drunk masochists
c) have booed at every cubs game i've ever attended (see a and b) above.
i have yet to understand what the cubs bring to this city, other than post-game vomit at sheffield and addison and perpetual complaining. oh, and screwing up my commute, whether by train, bus or car and causing parking nightmares in the surrounding neighborhoods. (my boyfriend works at addison and southport, and he's racked up like $500 in cubs game day tickets because there's nowhere for him to park his car on those days. dude is just tryiing to work his low paying job so you guys can get drunk after.)
so it's poor sportsmanship to boo, and its completely stupid to pay $50 and up to see a team suck year after year and show up to boo, but you've paid for something i suppose.
i will say this - the above normally applies to the 50 and under set. i have had good fortune to sit next to some old timers (60 and up) at cubs games, and they were gentleman sports fans, who sat with their scorecards and sipped their old styles politely and with class. i'm waiting for the rest of you to GROW UP.
You know why Sox fans don't boo at the Cell? Because the Jumbotron didn't tell them to.
d) rich drunk masochists
You know why Sox fans don't boo at the Cell? Because the Jumbotron didn't tell them to.
And even if it did, 85% of them wouldn't be able to read it anyway.
Flame on!
Guest 24, that's such a horse shit post. I'm sorry this whole thing got turned into a Cubs/Sox debate, but that's still a completely uninformed post. For starters, it's almost impossible to argue about which team has the best fans or the worst fans or what kind of fans the team has. But you did your best to generalize anyway. And the fact that you don't understand what the Cubs bring to the city is asinine. They bring revenue, they bring identity and sometimes they bring pride, just like all of the other sports teams in this city.
The main problem with Carlos is the bad playing. Running through the hold-up sign at third was just pathetic.
Even the Little League team that I coach knows NEVER TO MAKE THE FIRST OUT OF AN INNING AT HOME.
In fact, when a player does crap like that, I make them do a billion push-ups and then send them to the White Hen to get me a carton of smokes on their dime.
Lou should make Carlos do the same.
guest 28: i'm a baseball fan, but NOT a SOX fan. (i love the game, but have NO team affiliation whatsoever.) hilarious that fans of either team in the city are ever at the ready to make any criticism a north vs. south thing. by the way - i don't think i even brought up the sox before, did i? (though, while we're at it, i will mention that i've only had one bad experience at a sox game, when a couple of meatheads tried to climb under my stadium blanket.) so much for pinning my criticism on affiliation, then.
yeah, the cubs bring revenue - from parking tickets and people getting shitfaced before, during and after trying to drown their inevitable sorrows. identity? yeah, of being the world's most obnoxious frat party. pride? i'm sorry, for what? number of beers you can bong?
i guess my point is that boo, don't boo, whatever.....but i think the example to follow in these situations are those of the old-timers i mentioned before. otherwise, you're complicit in making it the drunken idiot frat party it is. you got problems bigger than zambrano's ERA. your games are turning to a joke all around because you as fans are all so badly behaved.
and i'm not "uniformed" - i've been right in the middle of it.
---guest 24
Wait wait wait... 40,000 people show up at a baseball game and it gets hard to park? No WAY! And some people get drunk? That can't be!!!
I can't believe somebody had the nerve to all of a sudden up and build a ballpark right smack-dab in the middle of your neighborhood! Shame on them! You'd think they'd have at least, like, informed you or something before they did that. I'm sure had you known they'd be so suddenly building it there, you'd probably not have moved there in the first place... I mean, obviously nobody'd have the lack of foresight to actually live by all that stuff that they can't stand. Right?
it's not my neighborhood, jerk. i live in rogers park.
nice try though.
and ps - thanks for demonstrating my point about cubs fans by being a jerk. and you wonder why people can't stand you crybabies and the nuisance you create.
it's not my neighborhood, jerk. i live in rogers park.
Good.
and you wonder why people can't stand you crybabies and the nuisance you create.
No, I wonder why people cry and complain about something that either doesn't or shouldn't affect them in any way whatsoever.
anyway, keep booing your own team there, guy.
*thumbs up*
anyway, keep booing your own team there, guy.
Don't mind if I do... better to do that than pointlessly whimper about things that 1) I can't change and 2) have nothing to do with me.
dude, you idiots make my commute like ten times longer. i have three options - drive, take the red line, or take the 22. that equals fucked, fucked and fucked for the entire summer thanks to clogged trains, buses and highway for a team that has stunk since the beginning of time. it's not even about baseball anymore with you guys - you all flock there, drop millions of dollars in cash and become a public nuisance under the guise of baseball. i personally think you all just flog there to have license to act like fools.
so - sorry, it DOES affect me. and as you all behave atrociously in the midst of it, you have to answer for it. here. now. accept it.
as i said - keep booing your own team, buddy. that says it all.
Oh boohoo. Newsflash: Wrigley Field has been on the North Side since 1918. You have not. People adjust to their surroundings, not the other way around. Deal -- or find new surroundings. I personally think you live where you do so you can have something to bitch about 81 days a year... that's the only possible explanation, because if it was *really* *that* bad, it'd be worth it to live elsewhere.
as i said - keep booing your own team, buddy. that says it all.
Sure, it says I know good baseball from bad baseball. Your rant says only that you apparently can't responsibly choose where to live.
PS: And no, no I don't have to answer to you and the rest of the kind of people who'd move to a forest and complain about the trees.
Are you really bitching about your commute? seriously? there are more trains going up to wrigley (and therefore going past wrigley) during Cubs games, that's a fact. there are more buses too. you do realize you live in a big city right? and as such, there are things that go on in this city, pretty much all year round, that causes delays in people's commutes. sporting events, festivals, concerts...do I need go on? You live in Rogers Park, try dealing with the f'ing art fair weekend, or the air show weekend or just any weekend when it's nice. You should consider yourself lucky to live in a city where there's so much going on that people want to be here, pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into the local economy. If you don't like it, move to Rockford.
Did Z say that in English, or through an interpreter?
i could probably deal with it if you guys were behaving and not acting like spoiled pricks, cursing on the el in front of little kids and puking down the streets. i can handle my commute - what i can't handle is my commute with the worst behaved baseball "fans" (if people who boo their own team can be called that) in the world.
remember when you could take kids to the ballpark? you couldn't convince me to take a kid to a ballgame at wrigley if my life depended on it. it's like watching a particularly bad episode of jerry springer, if the hookers were rich and the beaters were outfitted in gucci loafers and ralph lauren "dad" jeans.
i love chicago. i put up with the shit - the traffic for blues fest and lolla and taste and air and water. all that stuff is worth it, to some degree. i draw the line at you, cubs fans. stop making excuses for your awful behavior on game day.
Good job: When all else fails, exaggerate!
I mean good God... "Jerry Springer" "rich hookers" "Gucci loafers and Ralph Lauren dad jeans"... I... I don't know that even in my most self-righteous, high-and-mighty, and utterly delusional moments that I could write such a completely asinine and funny -- just plain funny! -- willfully self-created distortion of reality, even if I won every 1st place ribbon in every contest at Stupid Camp.
Seriously, was that written by an actual resident of Chicago, living here, in reality, on Earth? Or are we being subjected to the rambling musings of some kind of scientifically unexplainable amalgamation of the worst personality traits of characters from Project Runway re-runs?
Either way, just stop. Please... Just stop.
whatever - truth hurts.
game, set, match.
Exaggerations are generally used to illustrate a point, and stereotypes are there for a reason.
Stereotype #1: Cubs fans are annoying
Stereotype #2: Cubs fans are drunk idiots
Stereotype #3: Cubs fans are not that knowledgeable about baseball.
All pretty true in my eyes. I've been a baseball fan my entire life (of neither Chicago team), and seen games in many ballparks across the country (including Wrigley and the Cell). Cubs fans are some of the least knowledgeable I've seen, and pay the least attention to the actual game being played on the field. They do tend to be drunk Chads and Trixies who are there to party and hook up, and they also tend to be out-of-towners (either tourists or suburbanites) who either don't know how to ride the train (MOVE AWAY FROM THE FUCKING DOORS PEOPLE) or who don't care, and they tend to make a commute home on the el a miserable experience.
That being said, if you want to go spend 3 hours drinking $5 beers in the sun and have a good time, more power to you. Have a blast. I'll ride the blue line on game days and avoid the whole thing.
Exaggerations are generally used to illustrate a point, and stereotypes are there for a reason.
You're on the right track. A couple small corrections, though: Exaggerations are generally used to illustrate a point that has little basis in fact, and stereotypes are there for a reason: the people that create and promulgate them are ignorant, simple douchebags.
I'll sum it up: Are there "Trixies" and "Chads", who know little about baseball and only go to Wrigley to booze and hook up? Sure there are. But anybody who thinks there's really that many of them or that they come anywhere even close to comprising the majority of Cubs fans at the ballpark either hasn't been to a Cubs game or is creating a fictional caricature to use as an opportunity to strap on some undeservedly high-and-mighty condescension. Period.
As far as the L riders who crowd the doors, I'd point out that that's hardly a (rage-inducing) practice limited to Cubs fans. Direct your outrage where it belongs: at suburbanites of all flavors.