Chicagoist: Amid Protests, Planned Parenthood Opens

guest

Sun, 07 Oct 2007 02:09:16 -0600

Half of my comment above got cut-off. The above comment is a call-out to all PRO WOMEN PRO CHOICE supporters who support PP. Yes, it's open, FOR NOW but it's not over yet. The anti-choice crowd out here in republican dominated DuPage county is STRONG against the 6 "liberals" who live out here. Your help is needed. ACT don't just TYPE.

guest

Sun, 07 Oct 2007 02:05:28 -0600

IT'S NOT OVER. Law suits, investigations are still pending. I suggest you get your asses out here to the WESTERN SUBURBS of DuPage County you all forsake so much instead of sitting in you BLUE Cook County, sipping your PBR and wearing ironic t-shirts. Could have used your help a couple of weeks ago--thank everyone out here it turned out ok, but quit typing here, get out of your city-safe-liberal-bubble, get out here and DO SOMETHING. There is life beyond Oak Park. The ANTI WOMEN ANTI CHOICE protesters are still out here EVERY DAY HARASSING WOMEN, TAKING DOWN PLATES AND TAKING PICTURES putting the fear in them when they seek the simple health care that is their RIGHT. It's not OVER. So don't congratulate yourselves too much, DO SOMETHING.

guest

Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:56:13 -0600

I am guest 17/21/ and now I'm guessing 23? Spook I totally understand what you are saying and in many respects I do agree. Some people who are pro-life can raise quite the shrill cry. They also do some terrible things in the name of God (who by the way preached love and acceptance). Here is my problem with your argument in particular (not to pick on you, but speaking in vague terms of sides and movements does little to really show any kind of point), it fails to look at the pro-life side of things in any kind of reasonable way. I know that some people who are pro-life vandalize, murder, and harass and that is completely terrible. But my parents and most of my family is pro-life and they have never done any of those things. Ever. And people like them, who are conservative (in general, not just pro-life), vote for conservative people (who really suck social justice wise), but then they (and other conservatives) contribute to the needy in other ways more so than people who are on the Democratic side of things. Now this is a generality that at least one study has shown. I know there are exceptions and probably other studies that say the opposite. It's just NOT true that all pro-life people have hate in their hearts. They do have a lot of love for the fetuses who are aborted and believe in a political position that has differing strategies to help those children once they are born. They are just as much against the painful things some people who are pro-life do in the name of God as you (and I) are. On the flip side that fetus is a part of a woman's body and I believe their needs to be a choice. As part of the voting public I do not plan on making that choice for any particular woman and usually vote in a pro-choice manner (but I'm not a one issue voter, so I guess that's kind of null). I think it is important for people who work in abortion clinics and women's health clinics to "get their story heard," so that people can have a better understanding of what goes on inside. It might make those employees seem more like fellow humans rather than faceless people in white smocks. Behind labels of anti-choice and pro-death there are real human beings. Some haven't really thought out their position and some have. It is important to give consideration to them as fellow humans, not as enemies. And then, just as an appendix... When you talk about liberals are you talking about the Democratic party or are you talking about social liberal and progressives? I personally think that Republicans and Democrats are increasingly similar and traditional labels of conservative and liberal do not apply in the way they once did. Also, do you have a citation for the "bible thumping church ladies" who are allowed in public school to "preach anti abortion messages'? Its not that I don't believe, but I'm curious if that was in a newspaper? Would that be easy to look up if I wanted to read more?

Spook

Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:23:24 -0600

Guest 17/21, Thanks for you response. My point is that in terms of this issue (and many others) I do not see, both sides “name calling”. I see one side name calling, just like only one side murders doctors. One side, screams and yells at young women in distress trying to access heath services at Planned Parent Hood clinics, One side vandalizes Planned Parent Hood Clinics, progressive Churches, etc. One side shows up at schools of children of Planned Parent Hood workers to "let children know that their mommies and daddies kill babies” I never hear pro-choice people say they are directed by God to break laws. You say “Obviously many pro-choice advocates and many pro-life advocates don't feel the need to foster a discussion” May I ask an example of this from the side of the pro choice folks? How is it that we fail to do this this? What should we do? Our “cause” is never shrill. I say that the fact that our collective voices are not raised is very very problematic. Which is why I have problems with your argument. The only thing you see Us/them doing in way of grassroots activity is raising money ( not nearly as much as the anti choice people) and escorting women to pass safely to get heath services, as harassing picketers shout that they are going to burn in hell. So when I say liberal approach, I mean those who refuse to acknowledge this truth, that the anti choice movement is bigger, better funded, and lead by the most extreme element willing to resort to any tactic to win. They also set the tone for the Republican Party and wield far more strength in the Democratic Party than Pro Choice folks do in the Republican Party. You could actually say that they wield more power in the Democratic Party. The very shrillness of the Anti Choice movement acts as a beacon that grows their movement. Mean while the other side is disorganized and lead by those unwilling to raise their voice because of class issues, I strongly believe. This means thousands of women in need of crucial family planning services don’t know these services exits- at best, and at worst make bad decisions to "avoid hell" as directed by the shrill voices. Yes Guest 17 I know you see all the bloody fetus pictures, but go talk to a planned parent hood worker and see the horrors that they deal with. These stories are not told, which is sad. And why is it that the bible thumping church ladies are allowed into public schools to preach anti abortion messages as part of Leave No Child Behind, but not our side? Lastly I think liberals avoid the real truth because they're afraid to recognize just how bad things have deteriorated, because they (liberals) would have to question their own Head in the sand inaction. So instead they blame both sides with out with out looking at the issue critically.

guest

Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:31:44 -0600

I am guest 17 commenting again. I stand for quite a few things and my stance wasn't what I was propagating. I am merely suggesting that name calling tactics by both sides does little to legitimize oneself to the other position. Obviously many pro-choice advocates and many pro-life advocates don't feel the need to foster a discussion that revolves around respect for idea and ideals in order to come to either some sort of agreement or at least figuring out a way that doesn't resort to name calling, (a minority of) abortion clinic bombings, and a rash of other petty propagandistic techniques. The current culture of the abortion debate consists of dehumanizing everyone (including unborn babies) on all of the sides. Similar things happen when any in-group talks about an out-group. So Spook, I'm not suggesting that a person give up their position, nor am I saying that some all you pro-lifers are maniacs and all you pro-choicers are murderers. I'm more curious how this has become an above it all liberal approach when I haven't acknowledged any position. It's not that I don't care, but that some times and places are not right to voice an opinion. Especially on a issue that receives so little actual thought anymore - its all about knee jerk reactions while hiding behind a paper fort of legitimizing beliefs & assumptions. But maybe none of this applies to you and you show respect for humans with differing opinions.

guest

Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:14:30 -0600

If men are going to be socked with child support, the government should give the men the right refuses giving child support or force the woman to have an abortion.

Spook

Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:42:09 -0600

hey guest 17 Do you stand for any thing? or just stand on the side line? I’m so tired of the “above it all” liberal approach To compare the wide spread well funded anti choice well apparatus to the voices that say a woman has the right to control her body and her future is more tepid liberal milk toast drivel. The same "above it all looking down" approach that Hannah Arendt, Elie Wiesel continue to warn us about that happened during the holocaust. Or as Theodore Roosevelt, said “Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.”

guest

Wed, 03 Oct 2007 07:32:01 -0600

Nice new abortion clinic. They say only about 10% of the "health services" they offer will be abortions. They go on to say they expect about 25000 people a year to seek services there. At 10%, that's 2500 abortions a year, which would be what, 7 a day? Isn't it nice to know a child will die in their community every three or four hours in that place?

guest

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:09:02 -0600

Whether you are pro-life or pro-choice it is inappropriate to generalize the actions of a minority of a group to all individuals in the group. Similarly I think it is more respectful of other people's opinions to refer to their opponents in a way that their opponents prefer. I understand that their are great benefits by way of propaganda to refer to pro-life people as anti-choice or pro-choice people as pro-death, but to continue on with such name calling does nothing to further the conversation and instead increases the gap between the two sides. Plus this issue is gray as hell and like most issues in life looking at things in black and white is nothing more than the easy way out. Sure we can justify our positions to ourselves, but ultimately it pays to look at all perspectives no matter what you think of the actions of the other side. Remember, fundamentalism breeds hate.

leah

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:06:18 -0600

Planned Parenthood is more in the business of preventing abortions by educating & providing contraception, than performing them. Christ. They should be rolling out the red carpet. They make me sick.

guest

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:01:12 -0600

Like, I've had three abortions and I don't know where I would be without them. I would sooooo not have my great job in advertising.

Spook

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:49:18 -0600

yea notice I never call them "prolife" Its funny, they care about the baby right up till its brought unto this earth. Then they become the intolerant- "Anti" govenment funding for every thing the baby needs to grow up and be productive- little republirates that they are

pantagrapher

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:58:55 -0600

Clever juxtaposition w/the Baby on Board feature.

guest

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:45:26 -0600

11: Nice one, and I would tend to agree, except I do know that many pro-lifers are much, much more than pro-birth. Maybe not the current right-wing, but some individual pro-lifers at least.

guest

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:24:21 -0600

Guest #6: They're not PRO-LIFE. They're PRO-BIRTH. The right generally never supports any initiatives to support the children AFTER they're born. Until they choose to do so, I consider them PRO-BIRTH and nothing more.

Spook

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:22:35 -0600

Why is it that the anti choice crazies who carry around pictures of bloody dead fetuses look worse than the fetuse pictures? I think they should use thier pictures instead

Chuck Sudo

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:20:58 -0600

I think it might be worth pointing out that Planned Parenthood isn't solely in the business of abortion. They also do great work in training women on the benefits of contraception and sex education that isn't based on the abstinence ('cause teaching kids to "just say no" in school has worked well on so many levels, wouldn't you agree?). And it sure does seem as though the opponents of this clinic are "anti-choice." They're against a woman's reproductive rights, against offering the sensible sex education in school that might reduce the need for organizations like PP, and against debating the subject in a level tone and calm manner.

Dan Boland

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:18:12 -0600

These hateful, pseudo-Christian protesters make me sick. The vast majority of women who visit PP and other clinics aren't going there to have an abortion, but they don't give a fuck about that. That's why I love Pledge a Picket. I wish all chapters did this.

Jake M

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:07:53 -0600

The difference between a contractor's house being picketted and a politician's is that the politician (and his or her family) chose to put themselves into the spotlight. A contractor is doing a job. This is not Clerks. This is not the Death Star.

guest

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:02:34 -0600

Peter- So, I guess you are against protesting at politicians homes too then?? I don't think protestors should be allowed to set up camp around homes either, but I didn't hear any liberals bitching when Bush, Hastert etc... get protestors at their residence. Also, I like how planned parenthood calls them 'anti-choice', they should have just left them as 'pro-life' because it makes you wonder what planned parenthood would be if you changed their policy in such a way; 'PRO-DEATH'.

guest

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:01:54 -0600

Build more PP we need them. These damn fanantics are the same as the fanatically Muslims. I wish people would just mind their own damn business and worry about themselves and let people make their own choices. Boy, we are backwards ass country.

Peter Mavrik

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:49:42 -0600

From Planned Parenthood's website: http://tinyurl.com/2fngy8 In Denver, Colorado, anti-choice extremists have focused their harassment on the contractors for a proposed clinic — staging protests outside their homes and offices. Standing outside a person's house and protesting is harassing someone's family in my book.

guest

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:48:17 -0600

Spav1: Do your own research. The documentation is out there. The Trib, I think, ran a story a week or so ago, but my memory is not perfect. Joe: War? Huh? Whatever do you mean? In any case, why not take action on your own instead of waiting for others?

Spav1

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:35:57 -0600

I would like some citations on incidents where anti-abortioners harass contractors families. That being said, I think this is CLEARLY about abortions. Do you think some run-of-the-mill free clinic would have run into all these issues?

JoeM500

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:22:04 -0600

When we go to war against anti-abortionists, give me a call. I'll be first to volunteer for the good side.