Chicagoist: NIU To Demolish Cole Hall

Ed Knittel

Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:54:01 -0600

@simplecreature I should have been clearer. I meant that I have no problem with it if the building truly does need to be replaced. Reading further into your reply I believe you and I are on the exact same page.

simplecreature

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:03:28 -0600

@ Ed Knittel I have no problem with a state owned building being replaced with the state's (our) money. Really, cause I do. The structural soundness of the building isn't the story here as I see it. That's something that engineers and architects can better speak to. The story here is Governor Haircut capitalizing on a horrible incident to gain some capital and make some capital improvements. heh. Capital idea that. Why isn't NIU making this announcement? Because the Governor wants to look like he's "DOING SOMETHING". When in fact he's doing nothing. This is step beyond his spiel regarding violent video games being to blame. The man's a criminal and a half-wit who never misses a chance to jaw in front of a camera. Ancillary to that, it's well within the rights of NIU to raze and build buildings as they like, as long as it's for sound structural reasons. Just because people died in that room does not make it into some sacred shrine for all eternity. Get some perspective please. Should we raze a civic building simply because something dreadful happens there? Nonsense. Buildings are expensive and the state is all but bankrupt. Frankly the "bad feelings" engendered by a space are worth much less than reliable transit, health care access for the poor and accountable state governance. Forty Million dollars could be spent treating any of those ills. The shooting was a dire and horrible event. The opportunism of Governer Public Official A is a loathesome coda.

Mike G

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:26:40 -0600

Gee, I didn't know a building killed those people and deserves punishment. I thought it was some guy.

joseph_dunphy_in_chicago

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:05:40 -0600

"Yes, you simpleton, I know that a broken seat does not affect the structural integrity of a building. Having renovated my last house, I am fully aware of flaws that are cosmetic vs. those which are not. My POINT (which you completely missed) was that it doesn't take an engineer to spot a shabby building." And my point, Dumbass, is that for all of your posturing at this point, what you've shown is an inability or an unwillingness to make that very distinction, because every single item you listed in support of your contention that this was a "shabby building" was, in fact, a cosmetic detail. If you don't get the clear logical implications of the point, then laughing like an idiot doesn't change the fact that you haven't gotten the point. The standard for affordability of teardown vs. rehab is how deeply the damage has gone. The damage you cite isn't even skin deep.

claimtofame

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:26:32 -0600

@ joseph: Excuse me while I wipe the tears of laughter from my eyes. This is a novelty for me, since in my real life I don't know people who are as socially inept as you. Are you really this poor at interpreting what people say and applying it to the bigger picture? Does this honestly upset you so much that you needed to respond three times? Yes, you simpleton, I know that a broken seat does not affect the structural integrity of a building. Having renovated my last house, I am fully aware of flaws that are cosmetic vs. those which are not. My POINT (which you completely missed) was that it doesn't take an engineer to spot a shabby building. I'm all for preserving buildings (as they did with Altgeld) BUT I also happen to know that about 8 years ago they did a study which reported that Cole, among other buildings on campus, had outlived its useful life. Feel free to respond to yourself multiple times. I'm going out for drinks and dinner. Hope the computer keeps you warm.

lamgray

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:16:35 -0600

Agreed with the thought of refurbishing. The structure built in the 50s should still have a very solid frame, instead of an expensive rebuild. . .Seats can be replaced, paint can be added. . . Public schools do get old and need touch ups from time to time. . but, they are generally all "depressing" anyway. . .that just seems like a waste of tax dollar when there are a lot of other avenues where it is needed. Tearing down a building for the sake of sentiment or the fact that it causes "depression" in students is crazy when it can simply be refurbished. . .Perhaps these college students should learn how to grow up and become mature adults that realize that they will have to inevitably deal with the deaths of others around them. Ever think the reason kids are going into places and shooting up the place is because we keep catering to a society in which we take precautions to prevent them from having to deal with emotions and turbulent situations. . .instead of encoraging feelings and healing. . let's cancel classes in the building and tear it down instead. . pretend like it never happened. . .Can't wait until this generation graduates and gets jobs and has to deal with real emotion and responsibility. . no, actually they will just probably blow up the office.

joseph_dunphy_in_chicago

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:14:38 -0600

I wrote: "Beside the point, anyway. I don't have to have been there to read your own commentary in order to know that undergrads are not qualified to make such assessments." I think I just earned a Daley award for that passage. What I meant to say was that I don't have to have been to the NIU campus to read claimtofame's own commentary, and note what his status was when he was on that campus, himself, and it wasn't that of an engineer or a building inspector. It was that of a student, a mere undergrad as he, himself, has admitted. An undergrad who decided to practice engineering without a license, something that as an engineer, I find ever so delightful.

joseph_dunphy_in_chicago

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:51:39 -0600

And speaking of stupid, let's take a look at what you thought were grounds for doing a highly expensive, taxpayer funded teardown and replace: Claimtofame writes: "Even a college undergrad knows a crappy place when they see one. Broken seats, broken writing tablets, sagging and stained ceiling tiles and frayed carpet are the norm in Cole Hall." Broken seats? Are you kidding me? You really, truly, seriously don't understand that seats can be removed and replaced, at very low cost relative to that of the structure? Were you under the impression that the back of your chair was a load bearing element in the structure? What you describe are superficial features, things that can be torn out and replaced easily, without challenging the structual integity of the building, or even digging very deeply into the walls, floor or ceiling, the skin that overlays the truly pricey skeleton of the building. Tearing down a building because the carpeting needs to be replaced? Are you kidding me? Mommy and daddy really indulged when you were growing up, didn't they? "Furthermore, as Via Chicago attested, it was a VERY depressing environment in which to learn." Oh, poor baby. Go to the school shrink and ask for medication for your condition, you little wuss. The state should spend tens of millions of dollars so that you don't have to deal with your feelings? Unreal.

Jeremy

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:49:26 -0600

How did that not come out right? Blago has been slashing the state funding for practically every state university, except for Emil Jones's Chicago State. Now that one of our schools is in the national spotlight, Rod is televising in more cash?

joseph_dunphy_in_chicago

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:32:41 -0600

Call me skeptical, but I wonder how someone who's never even been there is qualified to do an assessment of the building. Now, how do you know that I've never been there? :) Beside the point, anyway. I don't have to have been there to read your own commentary in order to know that undergrads are not qualified to make such assessments. To see just how stupid your last bit of commentary was, let's apply your logic to another situation. A third grader tells one about how ill his little friend looked on the playground, and shares his recommendation that open heart surgery commence immediately. Barely suppressing a smile, one asks him which medical school he attended. He then comes back with the retort that having not seen his friend, one isn't qualified to diagnose his condition. Perhaps not, but one certainly is in a position to comment on the diagnostician, and so I have. Not the same thing at all, and if you really have that much trouble understanding the difference, please do tell. Maybe I can rewrite this in really short words you'll understand. No offense.

Ed Knittel

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:29:55 -0600

@via chicago I have no problem with a state owned building being replaced with the state's (our) money. But, was the building scheduled to be demolished before this event? If not then there's where I have a problem with the Gov. stepping in and expediting the process. Yes - this was a very tragic situation. Yes - 6 people were killed and by all means a honorable memorial should be built on campus. But tear down a building? So, is it the position of the government to go and tear down any public building where a tragic event takes place? What about the incident in Winnetka in 1988? If the building was scheduled to be demolished I recant my statement. Otherwise, I stand by my statements.

claimtofame

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:17:48 -0600

Call me skeptical, but I wonder how someone who's never even been there is qualified to do an assessment of the building. Even a college undergrad knows a crappy place when they see one. Broken seats, broken writing tablets, sagging and stained ceiling tiles and frayed carpet are the norm in Cole Hall. Furthermore, as Via Chicago attested, it was a VERY depressing environment in which to learn. That entire area of campus was built quickly to accommodate the influx of Baby Boomers at NIU, and the buildings are showing their age.

joseph_dunphy_in_chicago

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:02:57 -0600

I'm inclined to agree with Rachael / Spav1. Demolishing expensive, tax funded buildings for the sake of symbolic gestures is not exactly fiscal restraint, and I think we do well to remember that there is not enough tax money to go around. Ever see the lunches in the Chicago school system? I have. How do you feel about the suggestion that children should be left malnourished, just so that NIU students don't get a spooky feeling when they walk past a building where something terrible happened? The money that is spent on item A isn't there to be spent on item B. Claimtofame writes: "It was starting to fall apart when I was a student there 10 years ago," Call me skeptical, but I wonder just how qualified a college undergrad is to do an assessment of the structural soundness of a building. Believe it or not, buildings have been rehabbed before, back in the days before the words "gut rehab" entered common usage. I realise that it is an element of semi-religious faith these days that tearing down and rebuilding is always cheaper, but that really isn't the case. Slapping on new plaster is a lot cheaper than putting up actual structural supports.

Walrus

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:37:30 -0600

Wow. Knee-jerk reaction there. Although I suppose if the building is in as bad of shape as some here have said, then maybe the shootings just moved up the inevitable. But still...

via chicago

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:31:36 -0600

To quote from that article: "Opened in 1959, the Stevens Building has walls spotted with mold and water stains. Rain drips from the ceilings. Old heating units are exposed, some occasionally spewing steam and water. Boards replace some missing windows. Students lug laptops to a cramped computer lab situated in an old janitor’s closet, where a few must sit on the floor. Theatre and Dance staff need to run water from an old sink in that “lab” often enough to prevent the pipes from drying out and sewer gas from backing up." I dont think most people realize how bad the condition is of some of the buildings on our state campuses.

via chicago

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:29:17 -0600

"The fact that the state is looking to help fund the demolition and new construction is a bit suspect." Why is that suspect? The state owns the building. Having taken classes in Cole, I can attest to the fact that its unlikely it would even have been in use 10 years from now. It was a depressing environment to learn in, and most parents who saw the facility probably had second thoughts about sending their kids there. Even more embarrassing is that it is far from the worst on campus...Stevens Building (where theater and dance is taught) has been petitioning the state for decades to refurbish the building..some teachers literally use janitors closets as an office. Garbage cans have to be set up to catch water when it rains All of the state money gets funneled to U of I..the rest of the campuses get the short of the stick. http://www.niu.edu/PubAffairs/RELEASES/2007/oct/stevens.shtml Sure, public officials love to say they are for funding education...but as the saying goes, "Show me the money."

Ed Knittel

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:50:04 -0600

Jeremy, I don't think that came out right at all. Thank you for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts for you. From what it sounds like is that this building wasn't looking its best before this event. The fact that the state is looking to help fund the demolition and new construction is a bit suspect.

Jeremy

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:10:38 -0600

Man, if only there could be horrible shootings at our other cash-strapped-from-state-budget-cuts universities. G-Rod might remember that they exist, too.

claimtofame

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:58:35 -0600

Spay1, not really. Personally, I'm glad to see Cole go. It was starting to fall apart when I was a student there 10 years ago, and combined with what happened, it's better if they just rebuild. At any rate, why is Blago making this announcement? John Peters should be the one delivering the news.

claimtofame

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:58:15 -0600

Spav1

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:31:47 -0600

Is that REALLY necessary? Couldn't you just like, tear down that room?