February 28, 2008
Interview: The "Second City Cop"
It's interesting to try to do an interview with someone - or a group of someones - when you don't know who they are. Moreover, you don't want to know who they are. The anonymity of the Second City Cop group (SCC, from here on out) is mandatory for the type of writing/reporting/rumor-following done on secondcitycop.blogspot.com- if they were to reveal themselves, the repercussions could be...major.
Out of the ashes of secondcitycopper.net, SCC has been covering police activity in Chicago since May of ’05, and has become the voice for the beat cop. They are ground zero for rumblings among the ranks, ranting against reporters and taking on clout and the power structure of Chicago the CPD from the streets on up. Since the start, they've been blogging about the CPD with anger, honesty, sarcasm, sensitivity and humor.
Police in Chicago have taken a bruising in the past year; SCC makes it always interesting to read the no-bullshit take on the inner world of cops. Moreover, it humanizes police in a way that is hard to get when one's only interaction is the occasional speeding ticket. Not only that, but it's tough being a cop, especially in this city - it's a window into the daily lives of those who Protect and Serve, and with over 7,000 hits a day, people certainly are curious.
We traded a few emails with them and discussed the new Superintendent ("J-Fed," in their parlance), the Abbate situation, and how they deal with being a different kind of "undercover" after the jump.
Chicagoist: It’s been about a month since Jody Weis has been the Superintendent, and it seemed to you that he’s gotten off on the right foot. What do you think is going to be the main problem for him in his tenure, from the standpoint of officers and from the standpoint of regular citizens?
Second City Cop: Well, he's starting at the right spot. Patrol Division, specifically, the men and women on the front lines, doing the job day in and day out while badly undermanned.
From the officers' standpoint? He's got to earn our trust. The politics of this job are unbelievable and cronyism runs rampant. You can't even begin to understand the problems unless you sit down with half a dozen old timers and listen to the stories.
With citizens, it's the same thing. He has to be seen as making changes, enforcing discipline, firing trouble makers. It's all image.
When he runs up against the special interest groups, politicians and reverends, that'll be the real test to see if he truly has a free hand to institute changes.
C: Do the resignations/firings/promotions in the last few days and weeks support your feelings on Weis? Or do they offer anything new to the equation?
SCC: We're still taking a wait-and-see attitude. Change was inevitable at the top. We'll have to see how the changes pan out. There is bound to be a ton more movement as the new bosses reorganize their respective bureaus and put their people in where they want. Some of the moves seem sound, we question a few of the others. But as is said, you can't please all of the people all of the time and frankly, J-Fed would be a fool to try to please everyone. It's pandering and you can't run a Department like that.
C: You spend a lot of time writing about the media, reporters, and how police officers are covered in the city and beyond. If you had to give a rookie beat reporter a primer on “how to deal with/write about cops and crime stories,” what would it read like?
SCC: Cops are naturally secretive, reporters are naturally nosy. Reporters have a duty to keep the public informed, cops have a vested interest in keeping certain aspects of investigations secret (M.O., witnesses, things of that nature). They are naturally at odds with one another.
It didn't used to be that way. Reporters knew enough to keep their pens to themselves in some instances, cops knew how to work with reporters to get information going both ways. Not anymore.
How to write about cops? Most cops are regular guys and gals with a desire to serve; to be part of something larger than themselves. We didn't come on thinking that this was just a job - this was the fulfillment of a dream for most of us. We knew we weren't going to get rich, but we'd do okay.
Too many reporters talk down to cops. We've experienced it firsthand. Our opinion is that there are far more cops who can do a reporter's job than the other way around. Look at the blog - we'd put our talent up against any set of reporters and you couldn't tell the difference. Now switch it - how many reporters do you know who could chase a gunman at Altgeld Gardens? Pull a body out of a crushed car? Tell a mother her son isn't coming home ever again?
When talking to a cop, a reporter has to realize the cop has probably seen things that would make normal people puke. Perhaps the cop even lost his lunch the first time they saw something. And a cop has dealt with people at their worst, not hours later with an angle to play and after they've been coached by someone with an ax to grind.
And, yes, we're as prone to exaggeration as the next guy with a fish story to tell. But having to testify about how something happened puts a damper on most of it.
C: When you say, “It didn't used to be that way,” at what point do you think did it change, and what do you think made that change happen?
A million reasons it changed. Back in the 40's and 50's, every reporter knew ballplayers were habitual womanizers and drunks - no one reported it (they still don't). Back in the 60's, reporters knew JFK was screwing around - no one reported it. In the 70's, everyone wanted to be the next Woodward and Bernstein and a lot of professional courtesies went out the window between reporters and politicians (witness Gary Hart).
Police are among the lowest of functionaries in the executive branch of government, so maybe it started to pick up steam there? We really don't know what began the change, but we're still seeing reverberations today. You could give us a million reasons and we could opine a million more.
C: It’s been about a year since the Anthony Abbate story broke. You’ve written in the past about how things are going to play out for him personally, but how do you think it’s impacted the department? And how has it affected you personally (or as close to personally as you can say)? It seems that that incident really let the lid off of a “we hate cops” sentiment for a lot of people.
SCC: How hasn't it affected the Department? It's brought us to lows unseen since the Summerdale days. Not even 7 years ago, everyone loved the police and firemen after 9/11 because just by wearing the uniform we were a symbol of people who'd be willing to lay down their lives to save others. Now, because of an off-duty drunk who never should have been on the job in the first place, a lot of that respect is in tatters. There are other incidents, but not with video, so it has had a disproportionate impact.
Personally? We're as sober as a boatload of judges here. We don't drink to excess, we know when to say when, we aren't out beating bartenders over unresolved personal issues. Abbate needed to be fired over this issue, no question about it. Tens of felony charges is ridiculous though. It's a political move by people trying to make a name for themselves.
It didn't really remove the lid off the "we hate cops" sentiment. People who hated the police before had ammunition to say "see?!?" People who supported us continued to. It's probably just that a lot of stuff came to a head at the same time (Abbate, fatal DUI's, SOS, etc) and it gave the overwhelming impression of a Department out of control. By broadcasting the tape over and over and over and over, it made it a lot more acceptable to rip on the police and assume the worst. But the stage had been set for that years ago.
C: You say, “he shouldn't have been on the force in the first place?” Why was he allowed to be on the force, in your opinion?
SCC: Clout, plain and simple. He had a history of questionable incidents that would have kept a lesser connected individual off the force and then a couple of problems during his career that would have gotten other people suspended or fired. That's all we can say about that.
C: How hard is it to maintain anonymity in your day to day work? It seems that depending on the information you write about, it might be possible to deduce who you are – or is that the reasoning behind having multiple people writing for the site? And does that make you nervous at all? After all, “three people can have a secret only when two are dead.”
SCC: It's somewhat difficult on occasion. But so much of what we write is reader generated. Our e-mail address book list is a few hundred names and we get mail constantly. So what one person might be talking about in a District or a bar gets sent to us by one or more people who participated in the conversation. Sometimes we quote the mail, sometimes we summarize. That allows us some distance and concealment. As for multiple people writing, we've worked with these people for years. We trust them.
C: Why did you start writing the SCC blog?
SCC: We like to talk and we've got opinions on everything. Mainly we do it to entertain ourselves. Sometimes we get people to agree with us, sometimes we get to see a different perspective on things. We've gleaned insight into all sorts of events, actions, things of that nature.
C: What do you hope to accomplish with it?
SCC: We love to see the citizens of Chicago awake from their slumber and realize how much for granted they take their Police Department and that we are victims of the political "combine" (as John Kass called it) that is bleeding this City, County and State dry of jobs, services and tax base. Other than that, we'd like to rule the world after Seiser steps down.
C: Do you ever forsee a day when you can come out from under the veil of anonymity? I remember reading what you wrote a posting on the "Checkerboard Chat" page making a point about "putting a name to a complaint" and so on.
SCC: Not in this political climate. The powers that be aren't able to separate our legitimate criticisms in the main posts from the sometimes wild accusations that populate the comments section. The mere fact that we provide a forum for dissent and unwanted spotlighting of certain behavior will doom us. That other blog site that we won't mention is run by two political insiders who have nothing to fear as long as they parrot the company line. Screw them.
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Karl: You are easily the best interviewer on this site. Nicely done.
That said, how were you sure you were actually talking to the real SCC?
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Decent interview. It for me hits the nail on the head why people HATE cops with his fucking retarded reporter versus police "could you do my job" example. The answer is ANYONE CAN BE A COP WITH PROPER TRAINING. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.
Also: Woodward and Bernstein exposed the HIGHEST LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION. This makes them "the good guys"; not the people who ruined politics with their intrusiveness.
Asshole.
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The answer is ANYONE CAN BE A COP WITH PROPER TRAINING.
Spav1: "Hey look at all those trees!"
Simplecreature: "Yeah, it's a beautiful forest"
Spav1: "That's not a forest, it's a bunch of trees!"
His whole point was that being a cop takes something more than just training, and he's dead right.
I know reading came late to you Spav1. Try sounding out the big words next time.
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The SCC guy/gal/whatever often is an asshole, and the SCC is wrong on that point, Spav.
In the past, reporters often would be more willing to look the other way, and, generally, were less ethical. And the cop shop, as well as other institutions such as law, politics and sports, was much more an "boys club" where everyone patted each other on the back. Again, this is all a general observation that likely simplistic.
I've read my share of police reports, and I would love to see the majority of cops even try to write a clear sentence. Doesn't mean cops are dumb, only that many are hopeless as writers.
That said, SCC does offer an insightful point of view(s), even with some of the hillbilly, racist commets.
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Great interview with "the SCC." We all know that cops see a lot of things on an almost daily basis that most of us would reel from if we saw it once, as the SCC reminded us of. I think he's right on though, if someone hates cops and/or has a negative opinion of them then their opinions are more often then not based on their foundational hatred and anti-cop issues.
Most people don't know cops on a personal level and often have this superioristic attitude about them. When I was in Fortune 200 corporate world I'd hear some pretty snotty and snide remarks, and comments from people who felt it necessary to validate how cops were so uneducated, etc. while disrespecting them. There are a lot of cops who have an education, at least a bachelor's degree, but often their being on the street so much easily makes that seem irrelevant.
At the end of the day, when you're the one who is a victim of violent crime and in an emergency, that first call we make isn't to our pastors, our business colleagues, and our fun loving trendinista friends, but to the CPD.
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"if someone hates cops and/or has a negative opinion of them then their opinions are more often then not based on their foundational hatred and anti-cop issues."
Maybe.
Or, maybe it has to do with the decades of shit from the CPD, and the institutional failings of the department over many years.
Granted, most cops in Chicago, and elsewhere, are likely dedicated public servants, and god knows they don't get paid enough. But if the good apples regularly go out their way to protect the bad, then something is very wrong. CPD and its backers often like to blame the public and media for the lack of trust in the city's police force but I think that's a silly, cynical view. CPD needs to look harder at itself.
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Cops get criticized unfairly in a majority of cases. Most cops are decent, hardworking people. The flawed system does not reward hard work. Instead, kissing up to phony reverends is rewarded. No wonder there are some lemons in the department.
I'll stick with the fact that the vast majority are not lemons, but heroes that go out there and make this city safe every day. In fact, CPD makes it safe so that some of the above commenters can go about their lives.
Don't hamstring cops by showing disrespect and hostility. Save that for the few jerks. It really is a small group within a much larger and mostly well-intentioned force.
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@simplecreature:
No. Untrue. ANYONE can be a cop.
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Ward: Good points. Very good points.
But why is it that the small group of assholes seem to always find protection from the institution at large? That seems to be a major problem. For the record, the vast majority of my experiences with CPD have been positive, but I've seen, experienced and read and heard enough from trusted sources to question the institution.
Just so you don't think I'm a Chicago cop hater: I would be willing to pay more city taxes to give cops a much needed raise, especially since they have to live in this expensive city. But I would also demand more accountability.
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@Matilda: Thank you. The SCC has an email address on their blogger profile, which was the one I corresponded with. I suppose I'll never know 100% whether or not they have an email answering service, but the tone and style matches up. And like I said at the top...I don't think I really want to know who's behind the curtain.
@Spav: You may have a point buried in all those caps letters, although the converse is also true - anyone can be a reporter/journalist, with training. Here's the bigger question - can they be a good one?
Also, for the record, I think Jody Weis is shaking shit up. Sometimes that "new broom sweeps clean" adage fits.
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Cops are trained to delibrately lie and cover their own asses so that your rights are violated come a trial. They KNOW the constitution, they have to so they can find all the loopholes and it is disgusting.
Since statistically, I am most likely to be killed by someone I know, I will say a quick "thanks, but no thanks" to the cops. I don't need you.
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Spav: Even you must know it is bullshit to paint with such a broad brush. Or you don't get out much.
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Not anyone could be a successful journalist. Anyone can be an "average" cop. I bet if SCC worked for the Trib (if he could even get there, more like the State Journal Register), he would be in Classified, or Obits.
On the other hand, if I wanted to go to the Police Academcy, I could easily get to the rank of detective.
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Gotta love it when Tilda is back on her meds, all calm and collected like a goo goo lib. But Spook being Spook I prefere her angry ranting,
Jody Weis might(?) be shaking shit up( not even close to being sure yet) but Second City Cop aint about reform. It might as well be a CPD union mailer.
And we see who "Karl Klockars" wants to be like when he grows up cause he thinks he's "cool"
But in the mean time, you Kloackars, let me see your WBEZ pledge drive mug so I can throw it at Matilda, monkey!
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The comments on that site are so full of ignorant bullshit and just really vile hatred that it makes sites like the 'free republic' look scholarly. Everyone that's not a cop (especially blacks) is a 'mope', 'shitbird', 'scumbag' or some other less than human pejorative. Basically if the commentors are a good representation of the CPD than you probably want to stay locked indoors and avoid coming into a contact with a cop at all costs.
Don't believe? Go to the site and check out the post about Barack Obama or for that matter any post about any story.
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Spav, if you think you could make such a good cop, why don't you take SCC up on the offers they've put out before where they invited citizens out for a ride along on a midnight in some of the roughest districts in the city?
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Spav: It's easier to be a journalist than a cop. Trained monkeys could do half the crap you see in most newspapers, and nearly all the work on TV.
Spook: Tell me what specific, realistic reforms you would do for CPD were you da mayor. I saw realistic because I want to make sure you actually have an idea of what it takes to make a big-city insititution operate, and that you understand at least the broader points of budgeting.
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P.s
Oh and about the bull sh*t below.......
"SCC makes it always interesting to read the no-bullshit take on the inner world of cops. Moreover, it humanizes police in a way that is hard to get when one's only interaction is the occasional speeding ticket......."
Kloackars,
mayyyyyyybeeeeee
if you didn't live in a Hyde Park vacuum you would be able to "humanize" cops from having a couple of the good ones as friends to provide balance. Or go to your beat meeting. Monkey!
Instead you fall into the cop Idol worship or Ward Up whoreshship because you are "granted access". Guess you feel all manly mab now, ya Herb!
But for your information Second City Cop is mostly a bunch of cops spewing racist sexist homophobic sh*t UNCHECKED!
views
p.s
Hey Kloackars, don't forget to wear you O'bama button!
signed
Spook
Comandante Commentator elect, so show some respect!
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Hey Matilda, here is a REFORM for you, maybe since cops are the first "Lawyer" on the "Scene" of a incedent they should at least have a freak'n college degree! Not to mention the test is designed for a hight school freshman
Oh I got reforms for ya!
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Hey Matilda, here is a REFORM for you, maybe since cops are the first "Lawyer" on the "Scene" of a incedent they should at least have a freak'n college degree! Not to mention the test is designed for a hight school freshman
Oh I got reforms for ya!
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Navin I just read your post!.
Do you see see why I'd rather drink with republicans over liberals? At least republicans are honest about their BS. You know Klockars is a Gooo Gooo liberal talking about how great Second City Cop is, because they bothered to talk to him
!
You feel me! See why I'm getting all Matilda!
And of course Matilda, being all calm on her meds is talking about "great interview Klockars!
I want my money back!
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there are good cops and bad ones. more good than bad. who gives a shit whether or not they went to college or how easy the test was. they're not solving the energy crisis. they know the laws and rights of citizens. whether they chose to obey these laws is another story. cops need to have street smarts to do their job well and they have more of that than anyone on here. although, spook will no doubt claim to have more because he's thinks of himself as such a hardcore urbanite.
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yea Magilla forget all that law stuff, Monkey!
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"who gives a shit whether or not they went to college or how easy the test was. they're not solving the energy crisis."
This should get the Red Eye Ward!
Yea police work isn't complicated at all, Monkey!
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i clearly stated that they know the laws and rights of the citizens, which aren't that complicated. they don't need to go to college to learn ethics. you should to try to read a little more closely.
your red eye comment was senseless, which is consistent with 75% of the jibberish you post
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Gorilla,
Lets forget about all this o.k.?
here have a banna on me! Friends?
(bubble over Spook's head)......who the *!@&%$ called PETA on me my for insulting a stupid Gorllia?????? )
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Not 'anyone' can be a cop. especially in this god forsaken city.
first of all, between some of these deadbeat chicago residents and the political crap these people have to deal with on a daily basis, let's see how you handle it.
second, they have barely any type of equipment and training. our city has one barely functioning police helicopter. last year, my police memorial asked the mayor to hold a department wide terrorism training in the loop. not all beat cars have computers, etc.
third, we don't have enough officers on the streets.
i could go on and on but i hav a great deal of respect for these men and women. SCC is awesome and gives the officers a chance to voice their opinion and civilians a chance to support them.
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"...But why is it that the small group of assholes seem to always find protection from the institution at large?..."
Matilda, when I saw the above comment from you, I realized that it could apply perfectly to my own environment. I am in the health field and I would like to post your statement on the wall at my work.
Anyway, back to the CPD. To any SCC readers who are reading over these posts, please note that there are plenty of Chicagoist regulars who support you cops. We owe you. Be safe and hold your heads high. A lot of us admire you.
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Spav,
You love to write about your disdain and willingness to break the smoking laws so I am not surprised you have a Im better than them attitude about police. Sure any one can be the police Im sure the test isnt that difficult (seeing as the city is constantly sued by whatever group doesnt do well on it) But actually having what it takes to actually go out and do the job I doubt it cupcake.
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Ward Up, I think I can provide a few reasons why the accusation is true, though people on the police side don't really like to talk about it so much.
First, as SCC and numerous commenters have posted thousands of times, a lot of wrongdoing is by clouted people who are covered until its caught on tape. Clouted as in daddy-is-Shakman-exempt, or mommy is friends with Ginger Rugai, or da Godfather is da City Clerk. Clout gets people hired and promoted, it gets them into do-nothing spots, and it sure as hell protects them from being disciplined. In that system, who is supposed to jump up pointing fingers?
Second, and this applies more to police everywhere and not just Chicago, who in the hell do you think is coming to help you when you scream for help in a police radio? This happens dozens of times a day, and it ain't the passers-by who are going to help a copper subdue a mental, disarm an armed offender or chase down a runner in a foot race. Nope, its the same people sitting next to you at roll call.
The thin blue line is here, there and everywhere because it is here, there and everywhere. It just is what it is, and if we want the police to act like the police, we have to allow them to trust each other. Therefore, a lot of little things won't even draw a second glance.
And once those first ethical lines turn gray in a young copper's eyes, other things can start to lose color pretty quickly.
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I'd just like to know when Chicago cops are going to be held to the same standard they hold us to?
Mainly, when are Chicago cops going to stop running red lights & stop signs when not on an emergency call?
They even do it in their private cars when they get near certain police stations.
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Interesting article. Going to check out the site.
A suggestion for all those people who police out there responding. Why do you care? I couldn't care less about the police and what job is harder; reporter or police (personally I think the police is but whatever).
I have lived in Chicago my whole life in a neighborhood that had its fair share of crime but I have never had an interaction with the police. Want to know why? (1)Because I follow the law; (2)I treat others with the respect and dignity they deserve, (3)I drive responsibly and attentively and (4)if I have a conflict I deal with it like an adult and don't lose my cool.
I have never in my life required police service. If you follow these simple rules I don't think you will have any interaction or contempt for the police. They are just an essential civil servants no different than snow plow drivers, firemen, teachers and other government servants.
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SCC is my homepage!
Ole!!!!!!!
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I think you have to take every cop on a case by case basis. A sweeping "Cops suck" attitude is narrow-minded to say the least.
When I was 13, my great-grandmother was murdered. It was a small town, and someone breaking into an old lady's house and stabbing her 47 times was a pretty shocking event. And, wouldn't you know it, the small town cops bumbled and stumbled and made general fools of themselves. Hell, they even called in a fucking psychic.
Fast forward 14 years later, and a State trooper got bored one day and decided to break open some old cold case files. He puts a couple of pieces together, figures some stuff out using police techniques that should have been followed in the first place, and viola... they found one of the guys who did it. It was a teenager, and him and his friend just wanted to kill someone for the thrill of it.
So, yeah, I got a bad attitude about some cops. But you can't deny there are some great ones who will do their job and well, too.
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Is this one gonna get more comment than the guy on the bike who got killed?
Viva SCC!!!
I read SCC daily with a grape drink in hand along wit some Flamin' Hots!
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I have never in my life required police service. If you follow these simple rules I don't think you will have any interaction or contempt for the police. They are just an essential civil servants no different than snow plow drivers, firemen, teachers and other government servants.
Last I checked snow plow drivers, firemen and teachers couldn't deprive you of your liberty and rights if they were having a bad day. I've had my rights violated by a cop who was obviously having an 'off' night or personal issues and I've had at least a couple macho cops deliberately break the law in the bar I work in and then give a look like 'you wanna say somethin' about it? you know what's gonna happen to you'. FWIW there are plenty of good cops out there but your argument that simply keeping your nose clean will keep you out of trouble is B.S. Again kudos to all the honest and fair cops out there, as we know any criticism of the jagoffs leads to assumptions that you are somehow against cops.....o' hai ward up!
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"If you follow these simple rules I don't think you will have any interaction or contempt for the police. "
Another way of saying if you are guilty, you should have nothing to worry about.
A bullshit argument that no citizen who really valued freedom would ever make.
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>>I'd just like to know when Chicago cops are going to be held to the same standard they hold us to?
Mainly, when are Chicago cops going to stop running red lights & stop signs when not on an emergency call?
They even do it in their private cars when they get near certain police stations.
Thats an uninformed opinion you speak from.
How do YOU know that they arent on a call. Its not all Lights & Sirens you know. Sometimes you need to get places quietly. CPD is held to a higher standard and subjected to more stress than you could possibly imagine.
Oh and not everyone with a medallion or a band is a Cop so take what you see or you think you know with a grain of salt.
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Hey Karl Klockars,
I love your quote....SSC "taking on clout and the power structure of Chicago the CPD from the streets on up" You just insulted the few people in this city who are trying to take on clout and the power structure!
Ohhhhh and "Since the start, they've been blogging about the CPD with anger, honesty, sarcasm, sensitivity and humor."
Exactly! Which is why they jumped to the defense of Abbate and defended the cops who threatened the reporters who tried to cover Abbate's court hearing, while letting Abbate out the back door. Oh and what they called the victim was if not "sensitive" was "humorous" right?
Oh and the defense of Jon Burge! Not just one poster but all of them. This is what's wrong with Liberals, spineless cowardly and secretly waiting for their chance to be part of the "in crowd"
Give me a republican over a Goo Goo Lib any day!
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Anyone suspect Daley brought in a Fed, J-Fed, because the Feds are crawling all over his office? Little ironic or what!?!?!
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>>No. Untrue. ANYONE can be a cop.
Incorrect. Not Everyone can be a cop.
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Cer,
any Gangster who presides over a 6 billion dollar
criminal enterprise with numerous front operations to keep citizens for the most part blind and complacent- like Karl Klockars, can’t be dumb!