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Barack Obama delivered a long, passionate speech earlier today, addressing Trinity United's Reverend Jeremiah Wright's controversial comments but also talking about race and racism in America.
I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely – just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.
...
I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.
Give those speech writers a raise.[full text of the speech]
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Did you ever think, I dunno, he wrote the speech himself?
No, and if people think candidates -- even Obama -- write their own speeches, they are clearly deluded.
He may not have written the speech, but I'd be fairly certain that his speech writers received some sizable input from him on it.
It's almost as though they could have lifted the theme from "Dreams from My Father."
His speechwriter is a 26 yr old kid. Seriously.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/fashion/20speechwriter.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
What I found so interesting was the commentary on CNN after the speech. Wolf Blitzer, et al talked about how expecting Obama to leave his church is like asking people who go to Pat Robertson's or Jerry Falwell's church or the Catholic Church, for that matter, to leave their churches for the reprehensible things that have been said and done.
Reports suggest Obama wrote the speech.
From the New York Times (similar to many other reports): "Mr. Obama continued to write the speech on Monday evening... aides said." (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/us/politics/18wright.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)
The reports seem to be from Obama's aides, so take the information with whatever size grain of salt you wish.
Let's just say that I heard it through the grapevine that he gives more input to the speechwriting team than any candidate they've worked with ever before.
His speech cannot be nearly as empty, hollow and shallow as I heard him read it! So I'm going to reread it just to be "fair and objective"
Its so sad that he is compared to Lincoln
Oh and welcome back "Spav1 X"!
That speech is going to send some moderates in the direction of John McCain.
Obama makes his radical pastor the equivalent of his grandmother. I don't think so. And neither will a lot of other white people.
Obama also makes the radical pastor the equivalent of conservative talk show hosts. Can you name one, just one, conservative talk show host who has:
(1) blamed the US for September 11th,
(2) said that whites, in collusion with the government, created the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color, or
(3) said for people to sign "God Damn America" instead of "God Bless America."
That pastor has said those things and more. For Obama to equate him with persons on the right is going to make moderates stay away from him. Fine with me!
Uhm Ward,I can see that you and U.S history or the history of American foreign policy
never attended any of the same classes in high school and college. Maybe some body will fix you two up on a blind date
Because the US is to blame for September 11th
How about "New Orleans was asking for Katrina for their sinful ways"?
The right has some some insane things before. I could probably search for more, but I'm feeling lazy and I'm not in a mood to exert a ton of energy to prove a retard wrong.
Ward Up,
I can name several crazy preachers respected and given a place/big voice in Washington by Republicans: Robertson and Hagee come to mind immediately. Hagee blamed Katrina on gay people. Robertson, well take your pick on looney statements he's made.
blamed the US for September 11th
U.S. hegemony and propping up of Israel are cited as the motivation for terrorist actions by "teh terroristz" themselves. So on this point he's basically correct. Of course blaming U.S. policy is a far cry from blaming "The U.S.".
Robertson blamed 9/11 on:
"Pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays, lesbians, the American Civil Liberties Union and the People For the American Way."
Ward, et al: You should look more into the things said by the pastor McCain has adopted as this spiritural mascot. Kill Muslims (even moderates), prosecute alduterers, harass the gays, etc. Columbia Journalism Review had a decent piece on its blog a few days ago.
Ward, have you heard the things coming from McCain's minister?
How about these:
" … All of the city was punished because of the sin that happened there in that city." Referencing New Orleans and Hurrincane Katrina.
He has also denounced the Roman Catholic Church as "the great whore of Babylon" and "a cult." He blames it for the Holocaust and predicts its imminent demise.
This would make my conservative Catholic grandma think twice about voting Republican.
Wait, isn't there that Christian book that states, "Thou without sin should cast the first stone?", or did I read that in somewhere else?
Word to Republicans criticizing Obama:vBetter go answer that phone Pot, because Kettle's calling.
Just go to crooks and liars or Media matters, they've meticulously chronicled the double-talk of the neo-conservatives and right-wing talk show hosts in detail.
Oh, and it was Pat Robertson who said that 9/11 was God's way of punishing us for homosexuality, I believe.
the sad thing is, this stupid race polarizing issue (stupid because these are not Obama's words and shouldn't be given as much weight as they are being given) is exactly the kind of thing that is going to make Pennsylvania difficult.
Welp, everyone has just about covered it...Pat Robertson, and all that.
So Ward Up, yes. The answer is yes, at least to #1. To #2 it's a bit more hazy, but if you replace "whites" with "queers" and "people of color" with "American families", I think the statement becomes a bit more familiar.
If Ward thinks it's not good I think Obama just scored big time.
The difference between democrats and republicans comes, not to mention liberal and conservative preachers is simple:
The Lib/dem sees the United States as a nation that is fundamentally flawed, but which has gotten better with time, and can continue to work to become better. A more perfect union, if you will.
The con/repub sees the United States as a nation that was once perfect (not sure when - during slavery era? or when we were systematically eradicating native american populations? or when a handful of robber barons owned virtually the entire country and practiced a form of wage slavery - paying people less than what they charged them to live in company housing and shop at company stores, forcing them to become totally indebted to the company? or was it when Jim Crowe ruled the south and physical segregation ruled the north? or is it when we prop up petty, brutal dictators because they'll do what we say? or is it when we slash taxes on the uberwealthy and formulate policy decisions in such a manner as to funnel our nations wealth to the top 1% while bankrupting ourselves and becoming massively indebted to china?
I'm not sure. But sometime in the past, the right thinks america was perfect. it's not clear when.
And when is McCain going to be forced to repudiate the disgusting, hateful viewpoints of Hagee? The Christian Zionist who thinks that catholics are an evil cult and wants to see the Jewish people totally repopulate palestine so that the end times can begin, during which all the jewish people will be exterminated (unless they convert to Hagee's weird form of christianity)?
oh, and obama wrote the speech.
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/speechwriter_of_one.php
himself.
Navin,
I was about to agree with you about U.S policy v.s the U.S. in terms of responsibility, but upon further reflection, don't you think American citizens should also be held accountable for American Foreign policy? Especially during these times of massive sleep walking?
Totally spook, but not in the way maybe you're suggesting.
I_h8_toyota_and_BT...I love it.
Three lines for liberals and a whole soap box for conservatives. That was funny to read.
I think Ward got you guys...hook, line and sinker.
There is a helluva lot more problems with the Liberal way of thinking than just 3 lines.
The fact that your post is so skewed makes me think you are no better than Rush or Karl or any other of your comrades. Extremists are what is wrong with this country...not just one side of the extreme.
Don't insult my intelligence again by claiming to be this independent voice ("it's simple!")...and then bombard me with something pulled right from Air America, Bill Mahar and The Nation.
irishman1,
I don't have a drunk/crazy language decoder on my computer. Can you try that again and aim at some small level of coherence?
Navin...I guess I am speaking as someone who has both Dem and Repub beliefs...so it seems right that a regular from this board is having trouble understanding.
Some right wing nut posted on this message board earlier.
It was responded to by a bunch of left wing nuts.
Here is some news...you are BOTH wrong!
And the post from 03/18/08 03:32PM is claiming to be this independent voice (claiming "it's easy!!")...when it is nothing except crap from the extreme left.
Once again...this board is full of extremists on both sides spouting off who can look up issues on the internet the fastest. It is people that YOU that is driving our country in a downward spiral.
Man,
You're going to have to do better than ranting like that if you want anybody to pay any attention to what you're saying.
Nice comeback, Costanza.
You gonna give me "jerkstore" sometime soon too?
By the way...you did ask...and you follow that up with "well, nobody is paying attention".
Well played, Costanza.
Didnt his holiness obama state when this first became an issue that he would have left the church if he had heard the good Rev make these comments and then today he admits that he heard the comments. Lies like these remind me of Bush
Irishman,
What I meant is that your point would maybe be better understood if you didn't come across like a crazed street preacher.
Umm and nice Seinfeld reference btw....................
Lies like these remind me of Bush
When going to an inflamatory (and not very really) preacher's church is the same as lying about 3 trillion dollar/ thousands dead wars let us know Ward..........Bush of course, never admitted that he was wrong.
Actually, Obama previously claimed he never heard the particular statements in the clips that have been currently making their way around the news shows. Today he said he's heard the Rev. make "controversial" statements, but he didn't specifically say he heard the ones regarding 9/11, AIDS, etc.
It's all about the nuance, fed up.
Of course someone cynical could say that such word games are not exactly a "new kind of politics"...
Its fed Navin,
and just like "I did not have sex with that women bill" obama is learning the lie is worse than the actual act. I know you love obama but he lied last week he said he wasnt there and didnt remember the sermons today he admits he was there did he get up and leave like he said he would of last week? NO.
I wonder if obama is not remembering some meetings with rezko that he will remeber later. Kind of like the money from rezko that he keeps finding but couldnt find before.
A new kind of politics may mean one thing to you and it may mean another thing to me. I can say that in my 37 years of life, I've never seen politics like this, a campaign like this, a speech like that, so...I feel comfortable calling it "a new kind of politics."
A new kind of politics still includes the word "politics", he still has to play the game. He's really good at the game too, I appreciate that. And, he's been more open than the other two candidates regarding his financial records, his relationships with "malcontents", his earmarks, race, etc. I consider that "a new kind of politics"
And there's nothing wrong with nuance, its not an easy thing to master.
I like how "O'bama has totally ignored race for his whole political campaign and most of his career. This includes the suffering of
African-Americans in particular, (all poor people in general), unless to make Bill Cosby-esque pie in the sky remarks against poor Black folks to gain the votes of conservative and "moderate" white folks. Now his membership( a very poltical decession made years back) to join one of the largest most elite African-American churches comes back to haunt him and NOW its all about America not being able to
" Afford to Ignore" Race. Too bad O’bama chose not to use his voice to tell the truth about all America instead of trying to be Reagan lite. Yea perhaps he would not have gotten as far, but perhaps he could have actually started a true movement to change this Titanic called America instead of a fan club.
Sorry Fed,
Get you two mixed up sometimes.
I don't love Obama in fact I think he's going to be Democrat business as usual, I can certainly be accused of thinking he's the least potentially damaging of the three viable candidates. What I don't love is disingenuous histrionics and the like when it comes to describing anybody. I hope nobody will accuse me of loving Pol Pot if I don't agree with them when they say that he was actually the one who wrote "Stairway to Heaven".
Navin,
he will not just be demorcratic buisness as usual he is crook co machine hack political buisness as usual. Whats the worst that could happen look at chicago and crook co.
Ha, yes, Obama has been more open about his earmarks than McCain because McCain has never requested any. And that openness came after months of hounding by the press. In fact, all of his "revelations" seem to come when it's most beneficial to his campaign.
Look, I agree with you that Obama plays the game very well and is a great politician. But I don't understand how then people can make the stretch that all the pandering is somehow beneath him -- like he's just swallowing some bitter pill just to get elected. Let's be realistic.
Margaret, you say you've never seen "politics like this". What does that mean? What about Obama's "politics" is different?
well of course his revelations seem to come when its most beneficial to his campaign, that makes perfect sense. Plus, Hill's been hounded by the press for just as long and she hasn't given up poop.
And for me what's different is action vs. apathy, and I credit Obama with a lot of that. If it was Hillary v. Edwards, I think it'd be a solid fight, but it wouldn't spur action like Obama's campaign has.
This whole talking point of Obama supporters as blind followers of the messiah is done. Seriously. We're educating ourselves, reading, studying, asking questions, there might be people that are supporting Obes because they think that, but not all of us. Just like not all Hillary supporters are blind followers because she's a woman.
Obama inspires action. More than any other politician I have ever been witness to. His fundraising(many small amounts over the internet) is different, his speeches (I realize they're stump speeches, I don't take him quite so literally), and his message are all different from what I've heard, seen and been a part of before.
Sometimes change comes from saying the same words in a new way people will understand. I'll take that over the status quo anyday.
Yes, it *does* all make perfect sense, which is why I don't get how it's "different". I didn't say anything about "blind followers". Merely that I don't understand how someone who is running a cynical and calculated campaign is somehow viewed by some people as being above the fray. (Seriously -- no sarcasm here.)
While Obama has benefited from online advances that makes it easier to collect pittances from the masses, other major aspects of his fundraising are business as usual.
Again, I don't fault him for any of this, or think that it means people shouldn't vote for him -- everyone in D.C. does it. I guess "saying the same words in a new way" doesn't inspire me in the same way it does you.
(I should add that I don't support any of the current candidates.)
Here on the Obamaist website it seems that divisive talk, when it comes from the left, is perfectly OK.
While libs and some in the MSM are patting themselves on the back for backing this "JFK-like" figure, plenty of people are reacting negatively to today's speech.
How predictable that Obama tried to turn the conversation away from his own tolerance of racial hatred. Sorry. Didn't work. Not the right time to accuse whites of racism.
And next time, don't throw your grandmother under the bus. Or equate her with hate-mongers.
yes margaret, he has raised more money via the internet then kennedy,lincoln, bush1and clinton 1 combined, I wonder why that is? That message what is it again change well, I think we hear that about every 4 years. How long before he finds some more rezko money? Hard to say because every few months he remembers a little more. He is now going to really get attacked because he peaked to early and his lies are coming unraveled.
Does any of this really matter? "The Clinton Brothers" just about have the nomination wrapped up with PA and NC and a good portion of the party elite.
"Not the right time to accuse whites of racism."
For you Ward Up( and his ilk) there is no right time. Because such a conversation would force them to examining privileges that they never had to even acknowledge, just enjoy.
America has never had a honest Conversation on race, just the same old denials. Many Black folks vested in the system are equally not interested in having a honest Conversation about race either. Notice the silence on Crane High School with Negro leadership in Chicago.
So we will continue to keep tripping over the growing pile of crap we keep sweeping under the rug.
Prescott, I find it so interesting that each time you post you tell us how you're not interested in voting for any candidate, I don't see how that helps anyone at all, but do it up!
Look, its about tone, its about what you say and how you say it. Much of his politics are business as usual, I don't deny this. Dude has skeletons and mistakes and effed up shit he does just like everyone else.
But what he's saying is different, he's speaking in a different way about the same issues. Instead of talking about being a "fighter" and "fighting" the republicans, he's speaking about peace and unity. Now, for me, I would rather follow the candidate who speaks on peace and unity rather than fighting.
He's taking a different approach, following a different path, building a different kind of grassroots campaign based on the internet and new technology, he speaks like no one we've seen for years and he says things many of us want to hear.
This is enough for me to call it change.
he's speaking about peace and unity.
Flower Power Yea!
Trapped in a hard place between Fed Up representing the Nascar fearfull angry white males and Margaret "Peace and Unity" as it this is possible with out justice, Yup the same old conversations.
a different path my a$$,just another version of Dukakis just more talented.
Americans don't want change they want to be safe from having to think
Spook,
Why do you believe that none of the african american leadrship has spoken out on the crane b.s. I think most that give any thought to anything beyond there own interests are embarresed by the whole issue. Schools shouldnt need security like this and dont in the suburbs. But an african American leader attacking gangs as a problem in the schools and calling the parents and students out on the issue gets no benifit from there voters so I bet this is the polices fault.
gotta love it when the racists come out and are shocked and angered when they are called on their racism.
Obama's pastor said nothing inflammatory. The United States DID create the environment in which extremist Islam was generated. US policies in the Middle East have been supremely broken for generations. Whether you are talking about toppling the Democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran and replacing him with the dictatorial sleezebag Shah, or propping up the oppressive governments of Saudi Arabia or Iraq, or putting up roadblocks to peace in Israel, or abandoning Afghanistan after the Soviets were kicked out, the United States has been front and center for generations. Was it right for terrorists to knock down those buildings? Fuck no. But the hatred that built up in the Middle East was a direct result of enduring short sighted, egotistical policies of this country.
This country continues to treat blacks like second class citizens. Thinly veiled prejudice, like Reagan's Welfare Queens (want to see a real welfare queen - go take a look at Bear Stearns) or his speeches in Philadelphia Mississippi or divisive conservative policies on drugs and education. Black people are angry. They have every right to be angry.
White people, such as myself, live in an isolated world and have no concept of what its like to be black in America today. I've at least made some kind of an effort to see where black people are coming from. Does that make me a saint or better than anyone else? Fuck no, but at least I'm trying to overcome my prejudice. How many of you have ever tried?!
Oh, and St McCain doesn't even understand the fundamental differences between Sunni and Shia. He needed fucking Joe Lieberman to correct him when he made a completely false statement that Iran was training Al Qaeda operatives.
Iran and Al Qaeda are ideological opposites. But St McCain thinks they are best buds.
Ward Up - you are fundamentally racist. Instead of getting angry every time someone calls you on your prejudice, maybe you should take a moment and try to figure out why you are so against giving black people an equal chance at having a decent life.
And yeah, GOD DAMN AMERICA for FAILING to achieve the high standards to which it claims to aspire.
America can be better, but not until people like Ward Up face their fear and anger and hatred of people with brown skin.
I_h8_toyota_and_BT
Whaaaa? Where did that come from?
I'm going into retirement.
p.s I'd vote for you over O'bama
Prescott, I find it so interesting that each time you post you tell us how you're not interested in voting for any candidate, I don't see how that helps anyone at all, but do it up!
I think "each time" is a bit of an exaggeration, but when I do make that statement it's not to "help", but to curb the "right wing" labels that get thrown around when someone dares to criticize our favorite son. It was also meant to clarify that I don't have some sort of hidden agenda in making negative statements about him. Fair enough?
These "favorite son" statements, the kool aid statements, the second coming statements, the messiah statements, they are all really starting to wear on me.
Obama has long fallen off his pedestal, he is the "favorite son" of no one, no more than Hill is a "favorite daughter". It's a level playing field now. It's talking point like anything else and it seems like an easy way to make a jab.
And sure, fair enough. I didn't even consider attacking you as a right-winger or some such, it doesn't matter much to me where your negative statements are coming from, they're still the same statments either way. And its cool that you have them and say them, again, it only strengthens my decision to argue my points, make sure I know about the holes.
For what it's worth, "favorite son" is not a jab but a political term that is very accurate in regards to Obama and Illinois.
But that's OK, just keep drinking that kool-aid.
(I'M KIDDING)
I'm unna get you Carlson!