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A new exhibit at the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago sheds light on the looting and destruction of Iraqi artifacts in the wake of the Fall of Sadaam. Catastrophe! The Looting and Destruction of Iraq’s Past, opened yesterday, the five year anniversary of the Fall of Baghdad, and continues through the end of the year. The exhibit focuses not only on the well-publicized looting of the Iraq Museum, but on the continued looting of these artifacts as well as the damage done to historical and archaeological sites from the ongoing war and what can be done to save them.
The Institute is also holding a symposium, Saturday April 12: “Looting the Cradle of Civilization: The Loss of History in Iraq." Among the speakers will be McGuire Gibson, Professor of Mesopotamian Archeology at the University of Chicago and Geoff Emberling, Director of the Oriental Institute.
No matter what one thinks of the current war in Iraq, the exhibit is timely. In a country that so highly values the preservation of our own historical landmarks, we too often ignore the ongoing destruction of similar sites in other countries, especially when we're involved. Gibson even points out that many U.S. dealers and galleries are partly responsible for the continued looting. "They are people whose names are on museum galleries, people who seem to be thinking they are saving these objects for posterity by buying them, but every time they do, it sends more looters into the desert in Iraq to destroy more archaeological sites to look for more artifacts." Mission accomplished, indeed. [Trib]
Catastrophe! The Looting and Destruction of Iraq’s Past, The Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, 1155 East 58th Street, “Looting the Cradle of Civilization: The Loss of History in Iraq" Symposium, April 12, 9:30 am - 4:00 pm, $65 for Institute Members, $75 for general public, Call 773-702-9507 for registration.
Exhibit runs through December 31, 2008, check Institute website for hours and admission
Image of Iraq Museum from the Oriental Institute website
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In the scheme of war, worrying about looting artifacts is like going to a starving child and offering them candy.
Perspective.
Because it's implied that worrying about artifacts is the most important thing about war?
Unless it is Dolly Madison saving shit from the White House when the Lobsterbacks were burning Washington, I don't really care, at all.
But now, considering the lack of infrastructure, stable government, the widespread religious intolerance, the civilian militia, IEDs, our troops raping and murdering civilians and just the general shitshow; yeah, I don't give a fuck how many vases are looted.
Definitely an exhibit people should be see. So much has already been lost that never be replaced sad.
Spav, I think an educated person would want to know the whole story "in the scheme of war" not just the body count. Having an exhibit call attention to one aspect of the war doesn't say its more important than all others. It just informs that it's happening and states that there is a problem.
Maybe you need a little perspective, Spav. The looting of the Iraq Museum, and Baghdad in general, is often pointed to as one of the primary examples of the Bush administration's failure to properly plan for a post-war Iraq. When invading a counrty under the pretense of "liberating" it, having a system in place to protect the countries resources (both historical and economic) is both reasonable and advisable. We sure didn;t seem to have a problem quickly securing and protecting the oil pipelines. The administration itself has begrudgedly admited it underestimated what would happen in Iraq after hostilities ceased and governance began.
spave they are important because they make up a cultural identity. Identity is important in nation building - as is the case in Iraq (though I would say we are also nation destroying). If it is all destroyed, cultural amnesia is possible and it becomes even harder to make a "new iraq"
Visitors to this exhibit should be aware that claims about the massive looting have been disputed and in some cases debunked.
The anti-war media gobbled up the claims of massive looting and used it as part of the argument against military involvement.
Another point is that the looting was done by Iraqis, not Americans, in a country whose government provoked the invasion. Beware of lefty lessons in this looting exhibit.
By the way, I think the war was a huge mistake. We never should have gone there.
@ ad
Perfectly stated.
@ ad
here here!
Do you have any examples of claims of looting that have been debunked, Ward Up?
Yes, the looting was done by Iraqis. Nice point, but totally irrelevant. The invading country has a responsibility to provide stability and security for the civilian population under international law. We dropped the ball and exacerbated the shit storm that we stuck our foot into. That's the "lefty lesson" that anyone with half a brain should take away from this exhibit.
Unless it is Dolly Madison saving shit from the White House when the Lobsterbacks were burning Washington, I don't really care, at all.
You do realize that sites and artifacts in Iraq aren't just important to Iraqi's identity but are also crucial evidence of the history and development of humanity as a whole?
Seriously though, for fuck sake, at the very least go read about Mesopotamia on wikipedia or something.
I think it makes sense that in a troop shortage, we wouldn't assign gaurds to the Louvre or whatever.
Looting antiques doesn't rise to the level of "security concern" that we should be concerned with over there.
Unless people are looting like, water and oil and stuff and there is no food, it doesn't exactly matter.
Besides, it will all show up in 50 yearrs anyway, leading to huge, costly legal battles and murky claims of original ownership.
What Navin said.
And JAH.
And Ad.
Serioulsy, this is much more vital than, say, a greystone coming down, or a department store getting a new name. This is stuff related to the history of civilization.
Spav - Most of it WON'T show up in 50 years, because it was simply destroyed. Pots and vases don't look valuable to looters, so they were just smashed on the floor. Do a quick google search to see some completely horrifying images. According to the former director, after 48 hours not a SINGLE piece of pottery that had been in the museum's collection was left unbroken. While the "anti-war" Western media might be hysterical, the museum staff (who presumably would prefer to still BE the museum staff, rather than expatriates who's life's work has been destroyed) is probably slightly more reliable.
Look, its not like the ONLY artifacts relating to Iraq are in Iraqi Museums. I am sure we illegally purchased some from smugglers and it is sitting in the Museum Campus.
I am not saying that it is not a shame etc, lets not destroy culural artifacts, etc...but like in the grand scheme. Not important. Lets not forget the forest for the trees or whatever.
Unless it is Dolly Madison saving shit from the White House when the Lobsterbacks were burning Washington, I don't really care, at all...Besides, it will all show up in 50 years anyway, leading to huge, costly legal battles and murky claims of original ownership.
Admit it Spav. You are one bitter person who's just looking for a fight. You've made some fairly intelligent posts in the past, and I have a hard time believing that you actually believe your own postings.
They didn't call it the Cradle of Civilization just to give it a catchy name. These artifacts are priceless and as Navin has already stated, they are culturally significant not only to Iraq but to human civilization as a whole.
Look, its not like the ONLY artifacts relating to Iraq are in Iraqi Museums. I am sure we illegally purchased some from smugglers and it is sitting in the Museum Campus.
And there is a process for getting those artifacts back. Also, they weren't broken and destroyed, they were cataloged and studied. Big dif.
And this is simplistic: "In the scheme of war, worrying about looting artifacts is like going to a starving child and offering them candy."
Well, maybe.
For instance, bombing Dresden--despite what you think of the need to do so--certainly destroyed a significant artifact of European civilization (as did countless other acts of WWII). Such destruction is significant, even if it pales to other events of that war. Worrying about such events is hardly stupid, as the above (sloppy) metaphor implies, but part of the total experience of war. NOT worrying about such events implies too much acceptance of war, I think (no, I am not calling anyone a warmonger, nor implying support for the Iraq War), as well as a somewhat disturbing numbness to what war is.
I just think it is funny the way that liberals have drawn attention to Iraq...not by high-lighting the terrible war crimes ccommitted by mercenary companies like Blackwater, or the mismanagment of the Interim government on all levels by Iraqis and Americans or by having an intelligent dialogue about what "preemption" really means, or why we have stripped bare the protections in the Geneva Convention; but by jumping up and down, screaming "the looting, the looting!"
It is retarded.
If we are going to Vonnegut, let me just say that "being anti-war is like being anti-glacier".
I am not saying that I was pro-Iraq invasion or that I am "pro-war" whatever the fuck that means, but like in the column of inevitablities of war and I would choose to spend my time and energy worrying about, looting is low ranking.
If I were a historian, or a curator I would probably feel differently.
Spav, I don't think you understand what's happening, or what its impact on future research, and our understanding of our history as humans is. It's not just about pretty pots being stolen from a stand in the museum but undocumented antiquities, writings (the earliest) and things that have literaly been dug out of the ground and sold, broken, lost etc. Every little thing has the potential to possibly be a revealing look into the early history of civilization. War politics aside it's a tragedy for our future understanding of the earliest civilizations in the world.
"I just think it is funny the way that liberals have drawn attention to Iraq...not by high-lighting the terrible war crimes ccommitted by mercenary companies like Blackwater, or the mismanagment of the Interim government on all levels by Iraqis and Americans or by having an intelligent dialogue about what "preemption" really means, or why we have stripped bare the protections in the Geneva Convention; but by jumping up and down, screaming "the looting, the looting!"
I don't know about you, but I read countless criticisms of all those issues over the last five years. Did you miss something, Spav?
And you say " ... but like in the column of inevitablities of war and I would choose to spend my time and energy worrying about, looting is low ranking."
Uh, isn't pretty much everything in your above list inevitable in war, at least according to the history of war? So, by extending your logic, one should never complain or draw attention to anything bad that happens in war, because war is always bad.
The looting that occurred, while tragic itself, stands as a larger example of the systemic failure of the administration to understand what would be required to govern Iraq in the days that followed. Shinseki suggested publicly that hundreds of thousands of troops would be required to maintain peace and order in the country after the invasion. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz literally laughed at him. If the troop levels the army originally wanted had been placed on the ground, much of the looting and destruction could have been prevented, and it is quite possible the insurgency would never have become as entrenched as it did (I say possibly because an insurgency was bound to happen in Iraq). The looting, at least in my mind, has come to represent our complete lack of understanding regarding what was going on on the ground. The lawlessness that prevailed for weeks after we removed Hussein has left a stain on our actions that we are still trying to remove. There is definitely a valuable lesson to be learned here.
Spav: You also mentioned Vonnegut, which I assume refered to the Dresden analogy. My apologies if I have assumed too much. You be assured, though, that my thoughts and knowledge about Dresden have little to do with Vonnegut. Again, sorry if I am assuming too much.
Spav
I have to agree with most of the comments so far in response to yours. Also, I tend to think you misinterpreted the original meaning behind the post, and the exhibit itself, by assigning it an importance that was never implied.
These artifacts SHOULD be saved, and the other commenters have that covered well already. But by no means was I trying to imply that THIS is the most important aspect of the war in Iraq. What saving these important artifacts is is a smaller piece of the larger mosaic that is the effects/consequences of this (uncalled for) war. This exhibit does not deflect from the troop shortage or the most recent request by W to stop the withdrawal. I don't see this story trumping that one on any front pages. But this is just another important aspect of the War that is in danger of being overlooked, much like some of the other examples you mentioned.
My touchstone for Dresden is Vonnegut, and I thought that bringing in his ideas fatalism etc "So it goes" would be appropriate in this discussion.
I don't think we should be numb to the realities of war, just things like looting maybe shouldn't shock and offend us as much as they seem to have here.
I understand the implications of these artifacts being lost, we should have done so many things differently. But, things aren't going any better for the PEOPLE of Iraq five years later...so that to me kind of dwarfs this as an issue.
Marcus:
Don't comment on your own post. If you need to clarify in the comments, it is an implication that it was poorly written.
As a "writer", don't you like that you can post something maybe even relatively innocuous and then the thread goes in such a different direction. Can't you just sit back an enjoy?
Also: I am not saying that these things SHOULDN'T be saved. I am saying that, IMO, resources are zero-sum. There are more important things to spend time and energy on in this whole crazy clusterfuck.
Spav - Thanks for the pointers. I'll be sure to take them under advisement. Maybe one day I'll graduate from "writer" to Writer. I just wasn't aware I wasn't allowed to be a part of this discussion. So, sure, I'll sit back from here on out and try to learn something.
It's good to get worked up about cultural losses. But we should make sure that those losses actually occurred.
Don't believe every mainstream media report that you hear. In response to an above commenter, there have been several reports that revealed the initial reports to be exaggerations. Below is a brief excerpt from a review of a book by Michael Bogdanos, a journalist who carefully investigated the lootings.
"....Bogdanos is at his best debunking the outrageous exaggerations about losses at the Museum that even now continue to be propagated in the international press....Bogdanos also does equally well detailing what was lost, how he believes the losses occurred (a small mob of undiscriminating looters combined with an undetermined number of much more sophisticated culprits), what was recovered and what remains to be found..."
"...He concludes at page 270, “Of the forty objects stolen from the public galleries and restoration rooms, fifteen have been recovered, including five of the finest pieces the museum possessed…3,138 pieces from the aboveground storage rooms [a figure that may rise as items are inventoried] [were lost] with 3,037 … recovered… 10,686 objects stolen from underground [storage] - 5,144 of which are highly prized seals - only 2,307 have been recovered..."
"...Part of the problem… is that the entire haul from the basement could fit in one large backpack. Looking at the recoveries of the items stolen from the basement in another way, 911 of the objects were recovered inside Iraq, and 1,396 internationally. Altogether, then, approximately 5,400 objects have been recovered..."
"...Moreover, another 62,000 pieces were “found” in other locations [having been moved from the Museum before the war.]” [Luckily, the Iraq Museum’s collection of approximately 100,000 coins remained intact because the thieves lost the keys to their storage cabinets in the darkness and confusion.]..."
I just think it is funny the way that liberals have drawn attention to Iraq...not by high-lighting the terrible war crimes ccommitted by mercenary companies like Blackwater, or the mismanagment of the Interim government on all levels by Iraqis and Americans or by having an intelligent dialogue about what "preemption" really means, or why we have stripped bare the protections in the Geneva Convention; but by jumping up and down, screaming "the looting, the looting!"
It is retarded.
Wrong,
You can be concerned about all of those things and most politically conscious people have been. The statement's even more ridiculous as the looting of antiquities has actually not got much serious attention in the grand scheme of things. Am I wrong, or will the looting of antiquities be mentioned more in the news this week then say.... Maliki, Patraeus, Iran, plans for the troops etc?
Your assertion's as bad as exclaiming that people shouldn't discuss Chicago's problems because there's a war on.
Marcus:
There is a marked difference between contributing to the discussion at hand and trying to STIFLE said discussion by claiming that I was misreading the original post...a claim that is ridiculous.
The burden is on you, the author, to write something clearly with an obvious thesis so that this sort of hijacking doesn't take place.
Spav you ignorant slut.
Here's a little story for you. On HBO's "Real Sports" they visited the Iraqi Olympic Training Center. The place had been stripped to the walls. Literally pieces of the structure were peeled off and sold in the street as scrap. The trampoline springs were taken.
The reporter was shocked. "How could this happen? Where were the troops?"
The man who ran the center took the crew up to the roof and showed them. A ring of steel had been thrown up around...the oil administration building.
By the by, that building was essentially a paper mill, but it was oil related and therefore more important.
American soldiers were ordered not to interfere with looting after the fall of Baghdad, that's historical record. Bremer and company took apart the military and devastated the police force. Ostensibly to "de-baath-ify" them. Though how the Baath party was more insidious than the Nazis I don't know. See, after WWII we kept on low-ranking officers, german military men and police forces to keep order. Additionally, this allowed the German people to feel that while they were occupied they weren't subjects of some foriegn power. 48 hours after the order to annhilate the Iraqi military you had the first suicide attack in Baghdad.
You could have put those cops and military personnel, many of whom were never Saddam loyalists and the bulk of whom surrendered almost joyfully, to work protecting their neighborhoods. Something the commanders wanted. But the paper-men at the Pentagon were too busy with crowing over "total victory" or "shock and awe" or whatever nonsense sounds good in a position paper for the Heritage Foundation.
Protecting the historyof the Iraqi people would have gone a long way in winning "hearts and minds". Which was the goal before it was "peace with honor"...erm...I mean "Victory or Death"...oh...uh...
A tradition going back to Babylon was wiped away because some empty suit on the Potomac thought they knew better. Fuck them and you.
simple:
I totally agree with everything you said (except for fucking myself). We should have NEVER disbanded the Iraqi Army. Huge, big fat mistake.
But why should American lives be put at risk defending Olympic training centers and museums.
I really don't get it, like "we never should ahve gone over there, but IF WE DID, lets spend so much money, lives, resources protecting artifacts and SWIMMING POOLS".
Makes no sense. Yes, the war was badly mismanaged. We should have gone in with more troops etc etc. But shouldn't the question now be: how can we get out the fastest with the least loss of human capital? Aren't "problems" like these a distraction?
It's good to get worked up about cultural losses. But we should make sure that those losses actually occurred.
So you think losses haven't occurred? It seems like all you're saying with those selected unsourced quotes (not bogdanos but the author of the article you copied) is that in some instances some recoveries have been made. Also Ward, looting and damage hasn't been exclusive to the National Museum, it's happened/is happening at *many* sites throughout the country. Bogdanos' quotes don't really back up what you and the author(s) of that text you pasted are trying to say.
I agree that losses occurred. What I don't accept is the massiveness of the losses as claimed by the mainstream media.
Exaggeration is not good for either side in discussions of the war. And I happen to think that the war was a huge mistake.
As a history geek, I'm all for saving artifacts and all that.
But deep down inside me, there's something that really pisses me off about sending in air support to help out troops on the ground and you have liberal press folk screaming "What about those precious artifacts!?!?!".
Tons of crap have been lost to war over the centuries. The Library at Alexandria comes to mind. But when it comes to actual fighting, fuck all that. Protecting American troops and securing the country as efficently as possible takes a MASSIVE priority over fucking trinkets.
Iraq is lucky it was the United States. A lesser nation (Iran, China, Russia even) would have just turned Baghdad into a green glass parking lot.
But deep down inside me, there's something that really pisses me off about sending in air support to help out troops on the ground and you have liberal press folk screaming "What about those precious artifacts!?!?!".
I've never seen any "liberal press folk" screaming about the artifacts. It's been brought up, yes, discussed, yes, but what is WRONG with that? Again, we should be interested in all facets of the war.
And just because it has happened in the past, doesn't make it acceptable or any less of a shame.
"sending in air support to help out troops on the ground and you have liberal press folk screaming "What about those precious artifacts!?!?!"
Ummm, huh? Read the article. It's about the destruction caused to Iraqi artifacts by looting. Air support doesn't play into it at all. What are you talking about?
March of 2003... some lady on CNN kept railing about protecting archaeological elements and I kept wondering about my friend from high school who just died in a Blackhawk crash.
http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/beaupreryananthony.html
That Babylonian bas relief isn't bringing my friend back.
Plum,
The Library of Alexandria was an ancient structure destroyed in ancient times, how and when, nobody agrees on, making that even worse of a comparison.
But when it comes to actual fighting, fuck all that. Protecting American troops and securing the country as efficently as possible takes a MASSIVE priority over fucking trinkets
Willful ignorance isn't cool plum,
More than a couple users have pointed out that preventing looting (in general) was avoidable but pentagon neocon eggheads didn't want to listen to anybody regarding the aftermath of the quick invasion. They didn't want to have any voices of reason spoil they're cool new experiment in light warfare.
trinkets
I don't think any self-proclaimed 'history geek' would refer to thousands year old artwork, texts and such as trinkets.
Iraq is lucky it was the United States. A lesser nation (Iran, China, Russia even) would have just turned Baghdad into a green glass parking lot.
They would have? Why? When have they done this before? Let's stick to facts and who actually did invade this country and under false pretenses.
I'm sorry about your friend. I lost a good buddy of mine early in the war myself, and it sucks.
I still don't understand your comment though. The thrust of the article is that the US didn't try to protect these materials. And you're saying that they did? With airpower? Commentators on CNN don't make US military policy. And US military policy at the time was not to protect archeologic sites.
Also plum,
We'd look at the loss of the potential contents of the Library of Alexandria as a serious tragedy, wouldn't we? How many lost historical accounts, texts, philosophical works would now possibly be required reading?
Aren't like all the Seven Wonders of the World destroyed?
Do you think they would be considered "Wonders" if they were still around? Food for thought...
Are these artifacts looted because they were valuable or valuable because they were looted.
what is this debate even about? looting has never been presented by the media as a major aspect of the war. it is simply a side story. people have a problem with it being reported on at all?
Are these artifacts looted because they were valuable or valuable because they were looted.
That question is utterly ridiculous. Spav after last week's comment on the functionality of art, and this one , I strongly suggest you take a couple of art history classes.
Aren't like all the Seven Wonders of the World destroyed?
All but the Great Pyramid of Giza.
Do you think they would be considered "Wonders" if they were still around? Food for thought...
Errr...'food for thought?, This is a joke right? It doesn't make any sense otherwise. Of course they'd be considered 'Wonders' just like the pyramids are and all the other different wonders of the world.
How do we learn from history if it is no longer there?