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Maybe we're reading too much into this, but we couldn't help but notice that James Frey has left Chicago off his upcoming book tour. Frey will be touring and reading in support of his new novel, Bright Shiny Morning. (Wait. Can it really be considered his "first" novel if...screw it, we're not going to reopen that can of worms.) Maybe he just couldn't fit us in. Maybe Ann Arbor is a bigger literature magnet than we ever realized. Or maybe he's going to add Chicago at a later date. Whatever the case, it still struck us that Chicago is the largest major city on this route that he left off the list. Of course, there is one possible explanation. In a recent interview with Vanity Fair to promote his new book, Frey and embattled publisher Nan Telese claim the Big O "duped" him into appearing on That Episode by luring him under false pretenses. Thing is, we actually liked Frey's books, true or not. And someone should have informed Oprah that this was not the first time a nonfiction writer has gotten in trouble for lying in their work. Whatever the reason, we'll just consider ourselves lucky that Frey-Oprah has not escalated to Tupac-Biggie proportions. Yet.
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"Thing is, we actually liked Frey's books, true or not."
Mind blowing how anyone can feel this way. Furthermore, that writing style, the style, the style of his writing, how he writes and writes and writes and then he writes some more--absolute steaming pile of shit.
True or not, James Frey's writing fails to reach turd status.
(Apologies for all the dookie references. I'm strung out on glue, pcp and bourbon. Also, I just killed a priest with my bare hands because he touched my leg. Awesome!!)
I don't think it is funny to compare a diagreement over blame in the literary world to a very real conflict in which two talented artists ended up dead.
Chicagoist is getting increasingly flip and blase and not in a cool, snarky way. In the pathetic way that your mom still says "That is THE bomb" even though it isn't 1995.
I love Million Little Pieces. Love it. Read the whole thing straight through. Granted, I thought it was a true story and I was flabbergasted, but that doesn't change that fact that I loved the book.
I never did read My Friend Leonard because Frey definitely lost appeal for me after the big outing, and I probably won't read his next book either.
But I sure did love A Million Little Pieces.
Funny how excellent nonfiction can turn into crappy fiction so quickly.
Is the Gen X memoir craze over yet? Please, please let it end soon. I can't take any more wounded young(er) people spilling all about their therapy and various addictions as though another such tale can really offer anything of historical or cultural significance. I get it: People have fucked-up families, the tragedy of which often drives some to drugs and mental-health professionals, if not jail.
I do look forward, though, to some good memoirs from those who have fought in Iraq/Afghanistan. At least those memoirs offer a chance of serving as witness to history instead of mere personal failings and narcissism.
Well we can't stay 24 and atop vapid pop culture references forever, can we?
that is strange how chicago is not on the book tour schedule, but its not like Oprah and her cronies run this city.
also, for a short post this seems to have a lot of hyperlinks in it. i counted SIX in one sentence alone.
Chuck:
Seriously, what a dicky thing to say.
I meant more that the above reference to Tupac and Biggie was insensitive; additionally, it is outdated.
In any case, if you were going to like, draw a reference to a famous literary feud, why not William F. Buckley and Gore Vidal?
Now for a quote from Buckley to Vidal said on air:
"Now listen, you queer. Stop calling me a crypto-Nazi, or I'll sock you in the goddamn face and you'll stay plastered."
Also: I hate your avatar.
I wouldn't be able read anything by him without think of his candy-ass whining, not to mention the blatant lying.
Ahh, but it was fun to see him get taken down. Shakespeare he ain't. Plus, Shakespeare didn't claim that Midsummer Night's Dream really happened to him.
@Ward:
We have had this discussion. Frey didn't lie. He shopped the book as a novel. The publisher intervened and marketed the book as a memoir, all the while making editorial changes that made it LESS TRUE.
James Frey and R. Kelly: 100% INNOCENT!
That book was total crap.
An embellished story about a rich kid who did some drugs and then went to expensive rehab.
Fuck that book.
Hazelden actually isn't that expensive.
"The publisher intervened and marketed the book as a memoir, all the while making editorial changes that made it LESS TRUE."
But Frey certainly had a chance to set the record straight, or to take other steps to prevent this obvious marketing fraud, but did not until he was cornered and found out. That is the real issue when it comes to a writer's credibility. Lie of omission is still a lie.
Matilda:
If you were a struggling writer who was suddenly catapulted into international accliam because of your publisher's marketing scheme, I think you might choose to keep quiet as well.
Case Closed.
hazelden actually is decently expensive .. maybe not so in comparison to the cali chi-chi treatment centers, but it's no small change. but, i have a friend who got a 'scholarship' to go there, so that's kind of funny. she says that she couldn't finish high school, but she got a scholarship to rehab. classic.
as far as frey goes ... i think it was a good read. it sucks that he crapped it up by letting his publisher lie about it and going along with it. lack of integrity is always going to come back to bite you in the ass. but, there are those who are always going to maintain that any press is good press, and here we are, still talking about it.
my whole thing was/is that maybe one person saw it, related and decided to try and get sober. who knows.
Spav: You assume far too much in post 14, I'm afraid. The writer was a big boy with a brain, and had the skills needed to know exactly what he was playing along with. You treat as though he were a victim, a view with which I disagree.
He could have spoken out and found a new publisher. After all, enough people like his writing, it seems. Instead, he was a coward, a mortal sin for any artist.
The book had been rejected by something like 7 publishers. Read the goddamned article.
Fact: Any one of us probably would have done the same thing in his situation.
Fact: If you are an artist, you are a shitty one.
Fact: You probably like gauche shit like Jeff Koons.
Spav: Huh?
The only "fact" that makes any sense is the first one, and, again, you assume far too much.
And, as far as I know, there are many, many more publishers in the USA than 7, and many good writers face many more rejections than he did. That is no excuse. He decided to go along with the lie, and you are OK with that.
As to your other "facts," I really have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
The only "artists" who have as "much" integrity as you claim they SHOULD have are terrible, awful, Bushwick, starving ones, that I would like to punch in the face. Success means that you HAVE to compromise.
Spav: Really? How many artists do you actually know? How many working writers?
Yes, one must compromise. But Frey did more than that. He went along with fraud. He, along with his publishers, lied to readers. I don't believe you can't see the difference, as you often seem like a bright person when you are not trying to merely draw attention to yourself.
did someone actually say r kelly was innocent? i'm going to assume that was a joke.
also, there is no way this guy wasn't involved in the decision to promote this book as nonfiction. it may or may not have been his idea but he certainly was involved in the lie. a huge, blatant lie at the consumers expense. i hope this book fails
Compromise your integrity, Spav? Lie about your life so you can make money? That's a requirement to be an artist these days? Golly gee, I didn't realize that I need to lie to be successful. That's pretty insulting to artists, writers, actors etc., don't you think? Do you think all good writers have had to compromise their morals to be successful?
Frey had the opportunity to do the right thing. He chose not to, was exposed for who he was, and suffered the consequences. I know that I would do the right thing, and I know others that would as well. But, it sounds like you are the type of person that would compromise morals and integrity for success, and I hope if you choose that path, you too would get exposed for the fraud that you are, whatever your profession.
Success means that you HAVE to compromise.
@Spav1 -- Compromise? To be successful? That's an awfully naive, if not uninformed thing to say. I'm guessing you don't really mean that, especially as you seem to be "backed into a corner", given the tone of your last few comments. Not that you're being defensive or anything.
This Frey fellow lied. He did it willingly. He did it knowingly. He went to the mountain (read: Oprah's Book Club blah blah blah) and spewed his lies to the world. And, he's hiding behind the "my publisher made me do it" mantra? I hardly classify that as compromise.
Lastly, to call Chuck's comment "dicky", is that really necessary? Must you lower yourself to such puerile retort? Is that how you compromise?
Whatever. What he did is no different from cheating in college, which everybody does and which if you don't do just means you will be fucked over when all the cheaters wreck the curve.
The only thing he and his publisher didn't do properly was thoroughly cover their trackes.
And R.Kelly hasn't been convicted of ANYTHING yet, and if I had my guess, he won't be. So I will amend my earlier statement to "R. Kelly: 100% Not Guilty".
Yes, one must compromise. But Frey did more than that. He went along with fraud. He, along with his publishers, lied to readers. I don't believe you can't see the difference, as you often seem like a bright person when you are not trying to merely draw attention to yourself.
@matilda -- Hear, hear! (or, again, here, here? I still can't tell which one is correct???)
Spav: Ok, you are just being serious. That's fine. But what's the point of treating you seriously if you are just doing ... well, what is the point of doing performance art here? Are you working your way up to Second City?
It's fun to debate you when you are being serious, as you are bright and insightful.
What he did is no different from cheating in college, which everybody does and which if you don't do just means you will be fucked over when all the cheaters wreck the curve.
@Spav1 -- what Frey did is so much more than academic cheating -- he profited and held himself out as some sort of pariah that needed to be accepted back into society, fer chrissakes! He duped most people into believing that a wholly fabricated story about his life was true! He did more than fail to "cover [his] trackes [sic]".
frp: it's hear, hear.
Perhaps it's all that cheating in colleges that leads to writers who can't fucking write.
IMO, I don't think what James Frey did was so bad, I don't see what all the hollabaloo has been about. Maybe I just should have said that and avoided this fracas.
Also: I would have done the same thing.
@Registered Guest:
IMO, English is the hardest subject to cheat in.
Also: I would have done the same thing.
@Spav1 -- I really hate to say this, but, this speaks volumes.
Spav: Just curious, if this is your true view of cheating, then what industry do you work in? Not looking for a specific job, but a general description. Politics? Finance? Journalism? Sales/Marketing?
Why?
That I would rather go along in a scheme that would make me rich and famous (a scheme that I didn't actually mastermind) than toil in obscurity my whole life.
I mean, his new NOVEL, is getting surprisingly good reviews. Who knows if he would have gotten the chance to write it without the lie.
I think in the end, it was worth it to him. Redemption.
I was a Poli Sci major, applying to law school, I work an admin job in Finance.
I am generally OK with cheating with two provisions:
I will NEVER plagarize,
and I won't cheat in a class where there is a curve, unless the WHOLE class cheats together.
As far as I can see, there was no real harm done by the "lie" that Frey perpetrated. People FELT betrayed...but I don't think it is quite the same thing. Just my two cents.
As far as I can see, there was no real harm done by the "lie" that Frey perpetrated. People FELT betrayed...but I don't think it is quite the same thing. Just my two cents.
Not to be too self-indulgent, but I agree with this assessment. Far worse things have happened as a result of "lies." Doesn't make what Frey did okay, but the worst harm that was done in this case was to Oprah's ego.
Spav, your attitude are one of the reasons that we have so much corruption, lying, dishonesty and cheating in our society. Too many people have found these attitudes and behaviors acceptable. That is why Chicago will never change, Illinois will never change and this country will never change. And it makes me sick in the stomach.
Oprah's "bushwacking" conduct aside, I think Frey deserves to be associated and identified by his conduct for the rest of his literary career. Why should he be let of the hook? He allowed his book to be marketed falsely, and he can now live with the consequences of that action. As spav notes, cheating in college and in other aspects of life is common place. If you ever get caught, however, you better be willing to live with the consequences.
"Everyone else is doing it" has never been a valid defense for poor conduct, as any five-year-old can tell you.
Spav, if I still lived in Chicago, I'd be buying you a Champagne of Beers right now. Just because Oprah was embarrassed is hardly a reason for people to have their panties in a twist over this. Modern book publishing is not that far removed from movie making in terms of ethics. Bottom line is, did you enjoy the read?
And English was definitely close to impossible to cheat in, Fucking blue books.
If you cheat and get caught, you're a cheater. If you cheat and don't get caught, you're savvy. It's the Belichick principle.
Does anyone even believe in personal honor and integrity anymore? I ask because all these pro-cheating argument boil down to this: Everyone else is doing it, so why can' t I? That is not a strong moral system, folks. That is not bravery, but cowardice.
I think these attitudes say alot about a person, and a lot about that person's parenting, frankly. And as angry as these attitudes make me--for reasons related to Sparky's--I also feel pity for the people holding them.
Buy the way, people spent their earned money to buy a book advertised as nonfiction. That advertising was a fraud, and that means the publisher, and the author, essentialy stole people's money. How on earth can one justify that? Christ, that is sad.
I just believe in a level playing field. It doesn't make any sense to throw pebbles at a freight train.
Spav: But the thing is, you don't even seem willing to try to throw those pebbles. You just give up and give in to what other people are doing, and you do this out of purely selfish reasons (that is, you want to get ahead).
And with cheating, there is no level playing field, no matter how big the group is. There are the people who cheated (and conspired to cheat) and the people who did not--whether these people are classmates or coworkers, or attend other schools, or whatever.
But hey, if you want to continue to rationalize away this immorality and cowardice (group-think), be my guest.
God, I am sure you will make a great lawyer. Fucking christ.
Matilda:
It is easier to get to the top cheating and then change the system from the top down than it is to you know, rage against the machine. It is for this reason that I am generally OK with some forms of sexual harassment.
Who knows? I might redeem myself in the end.
"It is easier to get to the top cheating and then change the system from the top down than it is to you know, rage against the machine. "
That's crap, too, I'm afraid. When you are at the top, do you intend to risk your pay, your status, your material well being and numerous friendships and perqs, to bring down the system? Yeah, it happens all the time, right?
Why would you need to redeem yourself in the end if you start out with integrity and honesty from the start?
And let's call cheating what it really is--lying. Are you comfortable with being a liar? Are you comfortable with lying as a way of life?
Didn't your parents teach you any of this? Mine sure as hell did.
My parents told me that the most important thing is to be successful. So, yeah, that is what I am doing.
Once you are AT the top, you can CHANGE the rules without bending them. Great example: Harry Truman integrating the Army, or, like the entire civil rights movement.
It is faster and easier to obtain a result by getting to the top and then paying it down, so to speak.
And my lies, much liek James Frey's rarely hurt anyone. It is OK to lie if you are hurting no one and helping yourself.
The thing is Spav, once people get to the top, do they change the system? Will you change the system? I doubt it. Why not get there with integrity and then you can change the system because you haven't compromised your integrity to get there. You lose all credibility when you get to the top through cheating, and then want to reform the system.
We live in a society where cheating is acceptable and even celebrated. And that's bullshit. In science, for the most part, if you are a fraud, if you juice your data and get caught, your name is ruined. No more grants, no more publications. I have seen it happen. And that is how it should be. And I am proud to be in a field where that still exists. You don't need redemption if you never compromised yourself in the first palce.
You don't deserve redemption. I hope if and when you do cheat, you get exposed for the fraud that you are. I will celebrate that.
The thing is, people have gotten to the top by cheating and then effected positive change once there: JFK is a perfect example.
And the thing about a cheater is that they will lie to get out of being caught.
You guys are way to cerebral.
Spav: Truman is one of the exceptions that proved the rule. But the thing about Truman, he hardly cheated, even given the fact that he was from a powerful political machine ('the senator from pendegrast,' if you don't already know). Truman shocked people by being so honest and having so much integrity. Odd example you offer.
Every parent wants their kids to be successul. Mine, too. But they taught me to be honest and have integrity at all times. I do not want to be known as a liar, either. Do you?
Are you really this empty, or is this just an act?
Truman didn't cheat but he was the product of cheaters. I think you would argue it is the same thing.
And my point was the regardless of what we are taught about grass-roots movements, the Civil Rights Movement came largely from the Top-Down.
Everything is a tradeoff. Would I kill someone for a million dollars? No.
Will I cheat on a test to get an A in the course, assuming no curve? Yes.
Would I blackmail someone? Maybe.
Do I lie? Doesn't everyone?
And I don't think it is being "empty", it is just having a relativist viewpoint. Instead of subscribing to some predetermined view, I call 'em like I see 'em. And I think I do ok.
Spav: This is more--or less--than a relativist viewpoint you use to rationalize your personal lack of integrity. You simply want to get ahead. You wrap up that motivation with historical examples that hardly relate to your goal to satisfy your personal ambition, but the truth is much simpler: You cheat because you fear you will fall behind your peers and because you want success. That's selfishness, not a "relativist viewpoint."
But hey, I look forward to the fruits of your cheating when you manage to pass some great legislation, or improve this country in significant ways, instead of merely enjoying a fat paycheck and worthless social status. I am sure we can all count on you using cheating to better society and not just your own ego or bank account. Because, you know, lying is OK as long as you don't get caught.
I have no doubt your parents failed at their job in raising you, if these are your true views.