Chicagoist: Pfleger's Heart-Pfelt Apology

fed up

Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:22:23 -0600

Father Pfleger did threaten to kill a chicago area gun store owner and then later said I didnt know that what I said. He is a fraud. A race baiter and a sexist but catholics seem to not mind pedophiles so why would they not want fr. faker.

Spook

Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:12:14 -0600

The Meteorologist go on an laugh as Margaret Lyons laughs at us all with her stash of Chicagoist T shirts dolling them out like Daley does contracts! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH I SAY!

The Meteorologist

Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:44:13 -0600

Um, am I the only person who thinks the title of this post is hilarious?

Spook

Tue, 03 Jun 2008 08:49:59 -0600

I'd also like to point out Pfleger's work on the Stop Second Hand Smoke Campaign in Chicago, his work with building housing for the poor and seniors, his Campaign to stop the proliferation cigarette and alcohol ads that target youth in Black Communities and the school he's opened. I think Pfeger has done more to help the urban poor than most ministers. For that he should get credit now that he apologized for that stupid sexist speech that recklessly played the race card

Navin

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:28:08 -0600

You lefties are so busy trying to feel superior that you can't think straight Hey Ward, just a helpful hint: You pretty much lose all credibility when you drop bumpersticker bombs like: "You Lefties". You sound more like a ranting radio personality than anybody who's got a genuine argument to make. As for feeling superior, who exactly do you mean? To you or to this preacher? I mean you're the one who's so hot and bothered about what some southside bible banger's sayin'........just sayin'.......

Ward Up

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 22:37:32 -0600

You know, guys, I would let the ad hominem attacks (e.g., "racist") pass, but this evening I left work and drove past a makeshift memorial. Located two blocks from my workplace in the heart of the South Side, the memorial was for a pregnant woman who had been shot and killed there last week. Her companion was wounded. I also happen to work with "brown people," as the above numbskull calls them, every day, all day. You lefties are so busy trying to feel superior that you can't think straight. Oh, and if your a fan of Pfleger, he will have plenty of time to hang out with you, because the political hacks who have kissed his rear are going to stay away from him now.

Navin

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 21:44:38 -0600

Ward, Look up the phrase if you're not familiar. As for annyoning hippies and for that matter South Park libertarian types, they both get the gas face in Navin world.

I_h8_toyota_and_BT

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:41:28 -0600

Seriously though. What is all this hate that Pfleger spews? He said some sexist stuff. Where's the hate though? Hillary has acted as if she is the annointed one. Where's the hate from Pfleger? He marches against gun violence. Wow. So much hate. He wants to keep kids from getting bullet holes in them. So much hate. Where's the hate? He highlights the plight of the poor and downtrodden of Chicago and makes the wealthy and comfortable of the northside and suburbs take notice. Man, it must be so painful to encounter someone so hateful that he makes you look at poor people. So much hate that he tries to help those who are beaten down by society. Father Pfleger is closer to Jesus than any republican I've ever met.

I_h8_toyota_and_BT

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:38:02 -0600

man, pfleger's getting ward up all pissy. he must be doing something right to get a racist like ward up all worked up. Just admit ward, you don't like brown people.

Ward Up

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 17:47:06 -0600

"...if it's gotten Ward and a lot of other Chicagoist readers so enraged then he was probably speaking truth to power...." Now there's logic turned upside down. "Speaking truth to power?" Sounds like a phrase from hippie drum circle on "South Park." If Pfleger's com artist antics get people enraged--and I wouldn't call myself enraged---maybe it's because Pfleger is out of line. You might want to consider that.

Navin

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 16:37:15 -0600

Wait, let me get this straight: Clinton does *not* feel like she's owed the presidency.........bwahahahaha! Oh and until now, Pfleger was an unknown outside of Chicago and before this there were a lot of Chicagoans who didn't even know who he was. A lot of people don't actually keep up with the news, religion or politics. I haven't heard the whole sermon but if it's gotten Ward and a lot of other Chicagoist readers so enraged then he was probably speaking truth to power.

Dave!

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:45:59 -0600

Chicago D: It's okay... I've got law on the brain at the moment. I'm knee deep in BarBri, counting the days 'til the July Bar... :)

Chicago D

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:39:53 -0600

Pfleger may be the most visible in some areas of the city. I am thinking that he may have a higher profile in the black community than I realize. However, there is no way he is close to being more visible etc. than Cardinal George. There is a difference between sometimes being mentioned on the news and being the face of the Church. I would even hazard a guess that if you polled Catholics in a very Catholic nearby city like St. Louis you would find that an overwhelming majority have no idea who Pfleger is, but know the Cardinal. If that's true in the Midwest, it is damn skippy true in the rest of the country. Oh, and Dave!, guilty as charged. I usually try to avoid writing like a lawyer, but these moral/political/legal issues tend to lend themselves to that kind of writing.

frp

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:21:20 -0600

@Dave -- ok, maybe UTV was hastily generalizing, but, if not the most visible, I would submit one of the most visible, and arguably one of the most controversial (notwithstanding the pedo-priests). And, as a Catholic, I have heard of Pfleger before. When I read about him or hear his name, I just shake my head. Sounds like George is doing the same.

UTV

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:19:59 -0600

Well, Dave, I guess it's all a matter of perception. He's certainly been a vocal pain in the ass for awhile, but this is the first time he's been plastered on all the national news networks. I agree that Cardinal George is the symbol for the Catholic community here, but I'd still argue that Pfleger's often-irrational screeds push him into the public consciousness more effectively.

Ward Up

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:18:41 -0600

"....Pfleger is the most visible representative of Catholics in Chicago?!?! Current controversy not withstanding, I think Cardinal George would take issue with that statement..." If Cardinal George took issue with that statement, he would be wrong. Nationwide and to many people in the Chicago area, Pfleger is more recognizable and better-known than Cardinal George. Sure, Cardinal George is the "official" representative, but Pfleger is better known. I make this point to highlight the harmfulness of Pfleger to the Catholic Church.

Dave!

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:07:27 -0600

Pfleger is the most visible representative of Catholics in Chicago?!?! Current controversy not withstanding, I think Cardinal George would take issue with that statement... I'd never heard of Pfleger before all this. Granted, I am not a Catholic. But still.

UTV

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:51:53 -0600

I'm all for supporting Pfleger's right to speak as he chooses, I would just like to point out that for a large portion of Catholics in our city, it's embarrassing that he's arguably our most visible representative. Also, I'm surprised we've gotten this far in commentary without saying that he can go Phuck himself.

frp

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:51:44 -0600

Regardless, this pathetic excuse for a priest can spew his acidulous diatribe and hateful rhetoric, then submit a "heartfelt apology", thus making everything right again? This is clearly a case where "asking for forgiveness later" cannot function as an excuse for this blight. I'm ashamed of being a Catholic.

Dave!

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:36:59 -0600

Chicago D, you must be an attorney... "but for the Robinson Affair" and "extraordinary remedy"? :) Getting back to the post, I honestly think clergy should be allowed to be as political as they (or their congregations) want to be. They should also pay taxes.

Chicago D

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:27:42 -0600

AckAck, I read that article this weekend. Interesting times to be an Episcopal. No doubt. Of course, since the Episcopal church in America has about as many people as the Catholic Church has in Chicago, this issue may not be as fully reported outside the East Coast press as it might otherwise be.

ackack

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:17:31 -0600

I think the Bishop Robinson is the touchstone for the schism, but I admire the US church for taking a stand. Here's an interesting perspective: http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/06/0082061 It will be interesting to see what happens at Lambeth...

Chicago D

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:16:19 -0600

Ward Up, Yes, it is absolutely possible to laicize a priest, but that is an extraordinary remedy. I have never heard of anything that Pfleger has done that would merit it, and since the Vatican has to do it, the subtleties of Pfleger's racial discourse are likely to be lost on a bunch of 70 something non-American men. Probably best to just ignore Pfleger. And, fine for you to advocate abandoning Sabina's. What about the parishoners? Also, where is this African American priest you speak of? If he's in Chicago, there's a decent chance he grew up in Sabina's. Think he'll throw Pfleger under the bus?

jamesj

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:07:58 -0600

The real problem is that our society is still dominated by the belief that morality and religion are inseparable.

Chicago D

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:06:27 -0600

"And to get back to topic - the Episcopalians seem to have it going on right now. It will be interesting if any of the candidates are going to deal with the fact that the US church might break apart from the world church to support all of their parishioners sexual orientation." Are any of the candidates Epicopalians? Besides, I'm not positive that a schism will be based on the "support [of] all of their parishioners sexual orientation." I think it will be based on the rest of the world being angry that the U.S. went forward with a gay bishop more or less unilaterally. While hostility toward gays clearly underlies part of the issue, it doesn't appear that a schism would be thisclose but for the Robinson Affair. In terms of protecting everyone from everything, the Unitarian Universalists seem more like the right speed. I can't even begin to summarize their beliefs, except that I have never come up with anything that a Unitarian told me would be an unacceptable belief in that church.

Ward Up

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:02:59 -0600

In response to Chicago D, if the Catholic Church really wanted to nurture a Catholic parish, they should want a parish that is not a training ground for race-baiters. It is better to disband a parish like that rather than approve of it. Anyway, St. Sabina's would still be alive without the master manipulator/hate monger who is there now. Put a different priest in there. Heck, how about an African-American priest? If the congregation shrinks, so be it. That would no worse a situation at St. Sabina's than currently exists. Also, you would not move him. The Catholic Church, if it had any sense of duty to the public, would simply boot him out of the priesthood. Yes, it can and should be done.

Chicago D

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:55:20 -0600

"How do we define life? Where did our planet come from, where is it going, and what are our responsibilities to preserve or maintain it? How should we care for the sick? Can war ever be just? What's marriage? What am I entitled to as a person, and what are my obligations to my neighbors? Those are questions candidates have to answer, but they're also questions a lot of people turn to religion to answer. What are we limiting when we ask clergy not to be political?" You are confusing a few issues. A bunch of these issues are moral, and consequently "legal" rather than "political." Because our laws are made by politicians, politicians have to say what moral stance they support. There is no transitive property of issues, so a moral issue (can war ever be just, e.g.) does not become political because politicians are compelled to address it. Second, priests and other religious can talk about all of these issues. What they cannot say is that a candidate or party's view is the moral choice.

ackack

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:54:29 -0600

Oh, the many misfires of Mr. Pfleger. I just want to remind him it was not about race - it was about gender for me. I agree that we have a lot of white people in the world who do need a kick in the ass for being racist and condescending. However his condescention that a woman who went to Yale Law and is a US Senator does not have the right to run for President was the most offensive part of it all. Considering the Catholic church's attitude towards women (and their bodies), it was just bad bad form. I feel bad for the Obamas. I think religion is a deeply personal thing and Pfleger's actions probably took away a place of solace for them. I have heard wonderful things about Trinity and the work that they do. And to get back to topic - the Episcopalians seem to have it going on right now. It will be interesting if any of the candidates are going to deal with the fact that the US church might break apart from the world church to support all of their parishioners sexual orientation.

Chicago D

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:51:41 -0600

Pfleger's apology is "imperfect" so-to-speak. All of that Hate Me If You Will is effectively an offensive move in what should be a fundamentally defensive act. What a clown. Not withstanding Ward Up's statement above, the Church has always had to be careful with Pfleger because he, unlike most of the rest of the Church, has been able to build a strong, black Catholic parish. You don't risk a parish like that lightly. I doubt that Sabina's is even a net contributor to the archdiosis, but it is still a disproportionately important parish, and that give Pfleger room that others do not have. Besides, where would you move him? St. Ann's in Barrington? He, he, he. That'd be funny for the two weeks he lasted. How about Clemens in Lincoln Park? Oy.

Ward Up

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:47:04 -0600

Oh, and nothing should be considered heartfelt (or heart-Pfelt) when it comes from a con man.

Ward Up

Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:45:56 -0600

The joke is that the local media and local politicians have been giving this guy credibility for the last 15 years while he spews his ridiculous views and teaches African-Americans to hate the white man. Local politicians have done the same thing. And guess what After the election, local media and local politicians will go back to endorsing his garbage. And the Catholic Church has only given him wrist slaps, even after his recent rants. They won't dump him just like they did not dump pedophile priests. Only if it hits them in the pocketbook will that get rid of him.