Chicagoist: Ask Chicagoist: Green Spas?

Spook

Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:30:06 -0600

Jackson, when you say the cost of adoption is between 10,000 to 40,000 do you mean "purchasing" the right baby from say China, or do you mean adopting a good old American preteen or teen? I think it’s specious to say adopting a child is more expensive than having one, unless you are looking for a baby tailored to a certain standard of cuteness from overseas. As far as ending the human race, what about just halting the human race until it gets its act together? What gives us the right to continue on like this? And remember we are not the only nation spitting our babies that continue to harm our "weary body of the mother earth" if I might steal from the above post. Of course one American baby has the economic harm of 30 babies from China or Africa. Who would have thunk that the baby of "environmentally conscious new mommy" is more toxic than other babies in the world But as far as what the policy should look like, etc. Heck if I know at this point, but I think the question and debate are very very important especially now. Just like your very true comment that "This is a deeply emotional issue, perhaps especially for women who since the dawn of time have been told this is the purpose of their lives" This is the sad truth, which makes it so stupid in our modern age. Can we have the debate of just who told them this and why? Where do women get this notion that their “biological clock” is ticking? "Hey Susie, better get a man, get painfully bloated for a year, have even more side busting pain spitting the kid out and then raise it so you can be a real women!" Oh and of course your kid will be just what the world needs. Frankly it think this is just another form of mental slavery in our white male patriartical society. And to me it sounds sexist as hell to call not birthing a kid "heartbreaking". But hey, I'm game I'm taking the "heartbreakingly equivalent sacrifice too" As a "man" don't I have the biological pull to meet a younger woman, impregnate her with my "seed" so I can continue on "the family name" and all that other B.S? But Yes I'm going to adopt( in a few years) a teen or a preteen who needs a good home. I think to do this is a bigger miracle than doing exactly what rats, monkeys, Dogs and cats do. Finally, I do this also out of a feeling of responsibility. Yes I feel that I share some of the responsibility of the great harm we are doing to the environemnt and all of our unwanted children even though I personally had nothing to do with it.

jackson93

Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:12:48 -0600

Spook, I have to admit that I am pleasantly surprised you took my comments seriously and responded thoughtfully. As for the cost of adoption versus the cost of giving birth to a child one's self, the cost of adoptions can range upwards of $40,000. There are some tax credits available to help defray the costs, but they may cover only around $10,000. The cost of giving birth depends on the method of delivery and if one has health insurance and how comprehensive their coverage is. If I wanted to raise a child, I could probably afford to do so, but I could not afford to adopt. The person writing in is looking to give a gift. We have no idea if the mother to be can afford or regularly goes to a spa; thus, we don't know if she could afford to adopt either. As for not having kids, should no one have any kids? Does clean up time mean ending the human race? Who should be allowed to have kids, who shouldn't? I am seriously asking these questions, not being flippant. Who will be our doctors or doctors to the abandoned children you are so justifiably concerned about when we are elderly and ailing? Who will be paying the taxes for our social security (assuming it even exists then)? I am not a fan of over population or sucking the earth dry to satisfy human wants, but I think there are questions to be asked about swinging that pendulum too far in the opposite direction. What about instead of not having kids, people raise their kids to be responsible and compassionate about their world? Yes, this is your world, my world, and the pregnant lady at the salon's world. There are people in this world who desperately want to have children, who feel called to have kids. This is a deeply emotional issue, perhaps especially for women who since the dawn of time have been told this is the purpose of their lives (rightly or wrongly). You want them to sacrifice fulfilling that calling for you and your vision of how the world should be. What heartbreakingly equivalent sacrifice are you willing to make? I completely agree that the children society has abandoned deserve a loving secure home. You seem to feel that certain people have an obligation to make this happen. Do you feel that a similar obligation applies to you as well? Are you planning to give one of these children a home? (Again, I mean this in all seriousness, because for all I know it may be something you are planning for the future.) I guess my point is that it is easy to sit at a computer and preach about how people should live their lives, but it is much more complicated to live those lives (even with all the white privilege in the world). This is an issue with many facets - I don't know what the right answers are, but I think they are different for everyone.

Spook

Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:42:55 -0600

Jackson, when ever some one kicks some solid well placed thought at me, I take it to heart. We are not going to agree on this issue. But feel me on this, no matter how much you might hate what I say, I appreciate how you brought it, and am trying to give it back in that spirit. Or maybe its just early.    I am far from being convinced of my infallibility. To be convinced of ones infallibility is be be six feet under or to be in a state of walking deadness that most Americans are. Its an easy state to wind up unless you work really hard at avoiding it.  And I do think it specious to say that adoption is prohibitively expensive as if birthing a child is not. Especially when you have the cash to indulge yourself at Salon Echo. But perhaps the answer is just not to have kids given the state of things. Perhaps this should be clean up time. Maybe we should reexamine our responsibility to the world instead of to ourself?   Further is it me lacking respect or is it me being more respectful? As this is my world too. Would you believe that a mere two years ago I was making fun of enviormentalist?    Further perhaps I strongly feel that "our" (I say “our” with intent( as I have no kids either ) kids that we have abandoned( in many cases to tragic faits) deserve not just a voice but a better life before any other children are brought into this world. Perhaps I am utterly insane that I feel this should be what real "earth mothers" and earth fathers should be about. Or is it just a title that money affords?   But let me be real with you Jackson. What really rubs me the wrong way about this whole "Baby on board style post" is the simple elite white privilege that just drips from it. Am I the only person that is honest about my privilege and works to lose some of it? Instead of just wallowing in it in this case "queenly" “Oh the weary pregnant body” I love how that word was appropriated, sorry Rosa Parks, Sam Cook,etc. From the "prenatal massage, 30 minute facial, a manicure and a pedicure." the title of claim of "Pahamama: the first Mother, the Earth Mother" because you are able to drop the cash at a Salon Echo which avails one to such "bliss"  And because perhaps I am utterly insane in this world of Salon Echo, because when ever I find myself at some elite "institution" of service , I always wonder if it is accessible and for whom?. So do they offer some scholarships for Shaquita from around the way? Or does she not deserve to be mother earth, to be Pahamama? Are there sliding fees for a pregnant working mother working as a security guard barely making minimum wage?  And for the record, yesterday I saw a hispanic gang banger with his very pregnant teen girl friend, belly exposed with a mid drift shirt just as proud as the worlds coolest sister/sister-in-law  and I felt the same unease.

jackson93

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:41:51 -0600

Spook, Adoption is a wonderful thing - no argument there. But it is a potentially difficult and prohibitively expensive process. It is not an option that is available to everyone. Also, adoption is not right for everyone. in addition to all the red tape, it is an emotionally complicated decision. I don't have any children and would never presume to tell someone how they should become a parent. Besides the women in question is already pregnant. Adoption is not an option at this point. One would think that you would have a little respect for people's need/desire to live their lives in a way that is best for them. This choice is more complicated and emotional that whether or to ride a bike or drive a car or whether or not to recycle. But I don't know why I am bothering to present another point of view, when you are so convinced of your own infallibility.

Spook

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:24:37 -0600

I would recommend to your new Auntie, that if she really wants to be "Environmentally friendly", that instead of bringing yet another "baby" into an over crowded world stressed out by more selfish self centered people, that she adopt one of the millions of unwated babies. Heck she could get one right in America. I'm sure that she being the "coolest sister/sister-in-law" with a spiritual bent, and focused on sustainability, being cool, green and hip she well more than consider it

groggy

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:52:00 -0600

Allyu is wonderful!! By far my favorite spa in the city.

Spook

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:09:22 -0600

Hey what ever happend to "Baby on Board"? I use to love that sh*t, son!

smussy

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:41:34 -0600

Oh! And if you're looking to have a beautiful keepsake, Claude-Aline Nazaire does amazing photographs and combines them with journals at Essential Blueprints.

smussy

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:39:07 -0600

Mother Me is a business run by a woman who gives pre-natal massage and teaches childbirth classes -- she had space at the building where the midwifery practice is where I am office manager. Good stuff. This also isn't pre-natal massage, but The Nest is an acupuncture practice that caters to pregnant women and pediatric care. The space was designed by an architect that is really into green space. The women there do acupuncture in pregnancy, at births, for fertility, and for children. A Woman's Place shares space with them, and all in all, it's a really nice space for pregnant women. *I am not pregnant, but I personally know and work with these women and have seen them go through many pregnancies with various women with great success.