Chicagoist: Obama Woos Berlin, McCain Snubs New Orleans

Navin

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:55:10 -0600

Navin, more thinking and less posting from you please. They no long make sense I take it by the poorly written ad hominem attack that you once again have nothing to say that legitimately contradicts what I said. And, I'll continue to wait for the day I choose Rolling Stone as a Legitimate news source. The author also writes for The Washington Post, New York Times etc.. Not too mention that this is just common knowledge amongst those who pay any attention. How about the bi-partisan Council on Foreign Relations? More than a year on, a growing conventional wisdom holds that the surge has paid off handsomely. U.S. casualties are down significantly from their peak in mid-2007, the level of violence in Iraq is lower than at any point since 2005, and Baghdad seems the safest it has been since the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime five years ago. Some backers of the surge even argue that the Iraqi civil war is over and that victory on Washington's terms is in sight -- so long as the United States has the will to see its current efforts through to their conclusion. Unfortunately, such claims misconstrue the causes of the recent fall in violence and, more important, ignore a fatal flaw in the strategy. The surge has changed the situation not by itself but only in conjunction with several other developments: the grim successes of ethnic cleansing, the tactical quiescence of the Shiite militias, and a series of deals between U.S. forces and Sunni tribes that constitute a new bottom-up approach to pacifying Iraq. The problem is that this strategy to reduce violence is not linked to any sustainable plan for building a viable Iraqi state. If anything, it has made such an outcome less likely, by stoking the revanchist fantasies of Sunni Arab tribes and pitting them against the central government and against one another. In other words, the recent short-term gains have come at the expense of the long-term goal of a stable, unitary Iraq.

mepps

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:37:58 -0600

Navin, more thinking and less posting from you please. They no long make sense. And, I'll continue to wait for the day I choose Rolling Stone as a Legitimate news source.

Navin

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:27:42 -0600

Yeah the surge just happens to coincide with what's essentially the loss of the ethnic civil war by the Sunnis. Lol, but year how about that "Surge". http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18722376/the_myth_of_the_surge

jennyblur

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:20:42 -0600

smussy: AGREED. Vince Foster's wrote a letter 10 days before he kills himself that read in part: "In Washington, ruining people is considered sport".

smussy

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:18:12 -0600

it's funny. everyone in the media is saying how much the media loves obama (mental masturbation, anyone?) and how the media is giving him too much coverage and being unfair, etc. but i'm wondering if there isn't a plan to cover every little single thing in a desperate desire (perhaps unconscious on the part of some) to catch him in the big "gaffe" that people have been talking about/anticipating. "if we follow him at every turn and nip at his heels, we can be there when he makes the big mistake!! we can be the one that covers it first. we can be the one that knocks him off the pedestal we've created!" just like they've done with britney, et al.

mepps

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:03:37 -0600

Your right, they can intersect- however, it seems that in this case it is a much more self serving 'intersecting' in the interest of politics and photo ops.

jennyblur

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:02:35 -0600

fed up: Obama is saying that he is against The Surge (tm) for strictly economic reasons, which negates whether or not it was or was not effective. He doesn't think we should be spending resources in Iraq. We should just install another Saddam over there and get out. That country needs an iron fisted dictator who oppresses everyone equally (including the Kurds, obvs). If they want a democracy, they can organize their own revolution after we are gone. Peace out forever Iraq. @Albany: What doesn't sit well with me is how everyone hates us and our current President.

fed up

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:52:30 -0600

Navin I guess the improved security in Iraq for Obamas visit is proof that the surge is working. Obama is just being stubborn in saying he would vote against the surge knowing what he knows now. I guess he doesnt want people saying he flip flopped again. before this gets out of hand I am against the war in Iraq but have no idea what we should do because it will be worse than the Sudan if we pull out now or 18 months from now or 3 years from now. We are in a pile of shit for a long time because of Bush's war.

Albanyparkour

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:42:53 -0600

I'd like politicians to stop spending my money traveling to the war they created, stay home and END THE DAMN WAR. Fact-finding? Right. Because all those Defense briefings, CIA reports, DIA briefings and military officers they can call to testify in open or closed sessions don't have any facts of information. And Obama looks like he's running for president of earth. This does not sit well with me.

jennyblur

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:35:10 -0600

Why can the two not intersect?

Navin

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:07:39 -0600

Mepps, I do remember the famous trip when McCain went to the Baghdad market accompanied by 100 U.S. troops, three blackhawks and two apache gunships. Also wearing a bullet proof vest just for extra good measure. After that he said that his little walk through the market was "proof" that you could walk through many areas of Baghdad quite freely. Ha Ha! Yet you wonder why he's considered a joke. I wonder how much money wasted by his little stroll and what all these resources could have been doing instead.

mepps

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:56:23 -0600

I will assume you are joking jenny. Otherwise one would wonder why he is in a campaign plane, why there are campaign speeches, why his campaign team is directing the visits, etc...

jennyblur

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:35:20 -0600

Obama is still in the Senate and on several committees where this type of trip would provide valuable you know, knowledge or whatever. Committees: Foreign Relations, Veterans' Affairs and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. Arguably, this is a "work" trip for Obama. He can't help it that everyone lurrrves him.

mepps

Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:47:00 -0600

Photoshop McCain went there, what, 8 times before when nobody noticed or cared that he went. He actually wanted to see for himself what was going on!! I can remember 1 time where he had a press delegation with him, and that was when he was there with Lieberman. So, no he didn't go for shits and giggles, he went to get work done.

PhotoshopAbuser

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:22:44 -0600

Jenny- to be fair, I think part of McCain telling Obama to go to Iraq is because McCain has been there 9 times. The only reason Obama is there right now is to try to pick up votes, its 100% political for him. ...and McCain just went there for shits and giggles???

Jamesss

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:05:58 -0600

Obama made a speech about how we need alt. fuels and for us not to be driving SUV's and using 25% of the worlds oil. This I will agree but I wouldn't be giving a speech like that then jumping into an SUV after. McCain can easily win this but he keeps fucking up. I'm voting for myself

Navin

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:55:50 -0600

Well I agree with you about the hero worship but you have to admit that McCain = paint peeling. Arabic isn't the language of Afghanistan that's true, I'd never heard of that gaffe fed, good looking out. * so I just looked it up and it looks like he realized his mistake *himself* and corrected himself shortly following the mistake. Not quite as bad simply not knowing. Also confusing Auschwitz with Buchenwald isn't exactly the same as talking about a country that doesn't exist.

fed up

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:24:08 -0600

No navin I really liked McCain in 2000. I like Obamas positions on many issues and do believe he will help the United States world image, and I believe he has a better handle on helping large citys problems and improving education so I may just vote for him. What I dont like is the hero worship its insane and will eventually be his undoing. As grandpa used to say if something sounds to good to be true it usually is.

fed up

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:17:49 -0600

Or when Obama said we need more arabic speakers in Afganistan, no one speaks arabic in afganistan. Or the story of his uncle liberating Auchwitz. The russians liberated Auchwitz.

Navin

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:13:16 -0600

One less alarming gaffe to many... Fed I'm not voting for Obama but I be that you're voting for McCain.

ljpljpljp

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:02:25 -0600

If I had to pick favorites it would be between Sad Song and How Do You Think It Feels. I am old; I bought it when it was first released.

fed up

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:02:15 -0600

Navin you could point out Obama thinks he campaigned in all 57 states,

jennyblur

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:54:51 -0600

Or thinking the Shiite Iranians are giving the Sunni Al Qaeda aid. Hmmm.

Navin

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:47:55 -0600

Like thinking Iraq and Pakistan share a border or that Czechoslovakia still exists, some fifteen years after the fact? Yeah dawg, time for you to go fish with Norman on Golden Pond.....

jennyblur

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:38:46 -0600

McCain made a fair point to Obama about how he can't really like formulate policy without going to where that policy will be effective. So Obama was like, "Cool, no prob". And everyone in Iraq is like "WE LOVE YOU". And McCain's policy is still a worse idea and McCain can't go one day without being confused about something obvious and then blames the media for it.

smussy

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:36:42 -0600

i like you, jennyblur. "craze-o." i'll be 'stealing' that promptly. it sounds like something that's organic, but i like that it has etymology.

mepps

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:34:28 -0600

Jenny- to be fair, I think part of McCain telling Obama to go to Iraq is because McCain has been there 9 times. The only reason Obama is there right now is to try to pick up votes, its 100% political for him. And, I wouldn't exactly call it 'leadership', but rather altruistic campaign speech time.

jennyblur

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:29:36 -0600

Ward Up: Take that "Obamedia" shit to Slate. The negative tone on this site on McCain's campaign comes from the asshatedness of how McCain is actually running his campaign, which is actually retarded, and it not be about the media's calling his campaign retarded. That being said, Chicagoist should endorse a candidate so commentors know what is what and these retarded accusations can be deflected with a "Well, we endorsed so and so, obviously our views are very clear".

Ward Up

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:14:57 -0600

Your tale of "...McCain snubs New Orleans..." only serves to strengthen your Obamedia credentials.

Navin

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:10:18 -0600

srsly jennyblur, McCain: I DARE your to go to Iraq! Obama does. McCain: Doh! but, but, you weren't supposed to really do it! The media weren't supposed to cover it either!

morgalker23

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:39:20 -0600

The Obama speech is clearly a turn in American policy toward ineffable fatigue. I find myself wearied at all the coverage that continues to oscillate between fear and hope. Why so serious? Get Your War on! Stop reading the serious news, and lift yourself up with a bit of comedy news at 236.com http://www.236.com/video/2008/get_your_war_on_promo_7897.php

jennyblur

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:09:52 -0600

I love that McCain basically nagged Obama into going abroad and now can't contend with the epic leadership radiating from Europe. Also: McCain is a craze-o. That is a "mash-up" I coined for someone who is both crazy (like a grandpa) and psycho (like a clinically insane person).