Chicagoist: City Holds Hearing on Immigration

Brittanicus

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:59:48 -0600

Ist Amendment! Of Course!

Brittanicus

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:59:22 -0600

Sorry! I'm in a rush! Even this old, retired University professor makes mistakes?

fed up

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:23:00 -0600

I doubt they will reverse it hopefully modify to just punish violent crime with long sentences. Non violent and drug offenders really dont need long sentences maybe a treatment program might be a more cost effective option.

matilda

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:15:30 -0600

Well, Fremo, if you have a gun, and can point it at me, I guess you get all the free speech you want. Maybe that was the intent. Fed Up: Think there is any political will to reverse three-strike rules?

Navin

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:14:27 -0600

Do I think that if buisness was to start following the law and only hire and employee persons in this country legally all the illegals would go home? no. Some would and a lot less would come here because work and a better life is what they are after (two admirable goals). If someone is here and living and an asset to the community a legal path to citizenship needs to be in place. For Ald. Solis and Ocasio to complain about illegal aliens who have been arrested on criminal charges being deported is crazy and may explain higher crime rates in their wards. Whoah, Me and fed pretty much agree! Unfortunately I don't believe we've got the political willpower to start punishing, say for instance giant corporate farming or animal processing plant owners. We'll certainly harrass their workers but leave the owners scot free, as we've seen so far.

fed up

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:09:17 -0600

California might want to look at the incredible growth of its prison system since three strikes was implemented. Those things cost money to build maintain and staff.

fremo

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:01:26 -0600

But I am allowed 'FREE SPEECH' under the Second Amendment and will carry-on teaching others from the East to the West coat of the peril we are in? You have a nice day? You mean the first amendment, correct?

Brittanicus

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:54:35 -0600

Actually I'm not a fascist, but a Independant (populist) AN AMERICAN PATRIOT. Also my ancestors came from Russia, Alaska. My Great, great grandfather was a Danish Sea Captian. When he didn't return his Inuit tribes lady committed suicide and left three children. They settled in Southampton, England with their father. Yes! I made a error in my judgment, but it was mainly to open up the article and alarm people about the serious concept of Overpopulation. We cannot keep up the demand for it right now! Oil! Diversity Alliance for Sustainable America.(www.earthtimes.org ) stated in it's article that if the U.S. grants amnesty and gives citizenship to 12 to 30 million illegal migrants already here, as McCain, Obama and the majority of Democrats propose. That all those naturalized citizens could possibly add 120 million U.S. and foreign-born relatives to the U.S., in the next 20 years whom all will CONSUME MAJOR ENERGY. Does the American people need to escalate the 315 million plus population, the census estimates we have now? To a new total of 435 million? The executive director of (DASA) admitted "Proposal to reduce energy costs in the U.S. will not work unless we also simultaneously curb U.S. population growth by reducing immigration and curbing teen pregnancies." Severing the illegal immigration occupation and deporting those already here is a good start, but not the complete solution to this serious energy problem that cannot be reversed. Unless another Nikola Tesla, an underrated genius of the 19th century invents a some new form of energy, we will be reliant on fossil fuels for years to come? Clean coal, geothermal, eco-fuel and of course wind power and solar. The latter is energy that is a perpetual source of unimaginable power that knows no bounds. Americans cannot afford to subsidize illegal aliens here with billions in our tax dollars , or the millions who will jump the fence in the future. Only THE FEDERAL SAVE ACT (H.R.4088) offers any chance of halting this overpopulation quicksand It's enactment will give ICE and the police more enforcement powers. Join NUMBERSUSA for free and become part of a solution and not lies. Coincidently, The biased press will not reveal that irrefutable fact why, California is having a $17.5 budget meltdown. Nobody wants to talk about the $11 billion dollars, supporting state welfare programs for the millions of illegal immigrants squatting in this states. California has more illegal aliens feeding at the citizen welfare trough, than any other state. Now with more illegal aliens per square mile than any other community, American citizens must go easy on drinking water. Not only are taxpayers being gouged to sustain illegal income people; they must now conserve water because of the millions of illegal aliens squatting here. Further you are going to be fined, for using access water. I have a second family who lives there? Yes! you can call me me whatever epithet you like. But I am allowed 'FREE SPEECH' under the Second Amendment and will carry-on teaching others from the East to the West coat of the peril we are in? You have a nice day?

Spook

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:31:59 -0600

Well, put Fed Up And I like how a lawyer supporting a pro Amnesty group said in yesterday's Tribe that an illegal arrested, jailed and deported for driving with out a driver’s license is a victim. I like that, break one law to come here is not bad enough, because its o.k. to break another law i.e. obtaining an illegal driver's license (from Alderman Munoz's father) is o.k. as well. Where does it stop? And as some one fearful of most American drivers, now I also have to be fearful of those with out insurance and with out a license as well, who also don’t speak English

fed up

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:35:49 -0600

Spook

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:39:27 -0600

p.s all casino revenue should got to the Zapatista National Liberation Movement and the Mexican Teachers'( mostly women) Union in Oaxaca who bravely stood up/ continue to fight the corrupt American back Mexican-Narco government instead of running away. Some who the fact that people are fighting for justice in Mexico continues to get "lost" in these conversations. I'm done!

fremo

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:36:39 -0600

Ward, Besides the technology (I am guessing harder to fake social security cards/new verification systems), etc. - what improvements in enforcement could there be? The thing I keep getting hung up on is what I perceive as a need for more manpower to kick these things in. Enforcement would be key, then an increase in policing would likely be needed.

Spook

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:32:05 -0600

For the record, although I am greatly alarmed, disturbed and against illegal Mexican Immigration, I completely admit that U.S Policy before the Mexican American War up to now is responsible for it. Yes Ward or Fed Up, its B.S to say things are getting better in Mexico especially when we helped the current corupt government steal the election from the people of Mexico. I therefore propose sending the illegals back, but with economic Reperations! I would them oil rich Texas( with the exception of the City of Austin), LasVegas( with its Casinos) and the state of Utah and perhaps Kansas if they will take it

Ward Up

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:04:10 -0600

Fremo, though you asked Fed Up, let me take a stab at your question. First, though, I'll have to change: "...were to suddenly start obeying the law..." to "...were forced through new technology and enforcement to obey the law." If that were to happen, then yes, you would see reverse migration. In fact, in Arizona, where there is at least some degree of enforcement, there has been some reverse migration, i.e., back to Mexico, already, in addition to migration to next-door New Mexico.

fremo

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:58:18 -0600

Fed, it would be interesting if all businesses in the US were to suddenly start obeying the law. In the hypothetical case that maybe 1/2 of them did, do you think it would cause reverse migration? (hope that doesn't sound sarcastic - I really would love to hear any ideas and supporting arguments for these things).

Navin

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:18:23 -0600

Thanks for that Fed, I would hope that everyone involved in that fraud would have been arrested since it there appears to be evidence. Still it seems to be an oddity rather than anything else: In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=print I would be less worried about citizens (legal or illegal) commiting voter fraud than I would be about high level politicians, on either side.

fed up

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:05:11 -0600

And no I am not of the round em up mind set. Buisness and the home country's of the illegals are to blame. Mexico has made huge strides in the last decade to overhaul it's economy and improve the quality of life for it's citizens (much more needs to be done) but would Mexico be in a better place if not for the brain drain to the U.S. If U.S. buisneses followed federal law illegal immigration would be a small percentage of what it is today.

fed up

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:55:55 -0600

In 1996 then-Rep. Bob Dornan (R-Calif.) lost to challenger Loretta Sanchez by just 979 votes. After Dornan contested the election, the U.S. House of Representatives claiming the election had been stolen by non-citizen voting. The House eventually dismissed his challenge after the Committee on Government Reform and Oversight identified only 624 invalid votes by non-citizens and another 124 improper absentee ballots. The US house itself has found Illegal aliens voting in federal elections.

Navin

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:47:17 -0600

Oh and gotta love minutemen like mental midgets like Brittanicus who troll the web *just* for discussions on this issue to spam.

Navin

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:44:19 -0600

Hans A. von Spakovsky Fed's source up at the top is a political hack who's been caught up in the justice dept. attorney dismissal scandal. He also helped (by not doing his job) to prevent Native Americans from voting in Minnesota. Stay klassy Hans, apparently people who've been here for millennia before the first white people arrived might be 'illegals' too. I too would like to see some real sources for Fed's posts myself, of course we have no source to even confirm that fed didn't make up the whole thing himself. I've yet to see any legitimate source show proof of any kind of voter fraud by illegal aliens or for that matter any proof of signigicant voter fraud by U.S. citizens.

Spook

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:01:57 -0600

I have the numbers Fed up is hinting at. Heck simply for education you can cull numbers from the USDepartment of Ed especialy for Chicago, LA and South Carolina. But it is about cheap labor and the unwillingness to pay American citizens a decent wage, which no sides address. We can do with out an underclass, but just like this country keeps a certain class wealthy buy promoting stupidity in the masses,Illegal immigration is the same thing/symptom. And actually Aldercreatures like Billy O'stupido and especially Danny Sosleazy want illegal immigrants in their wards as a bulwark against educated citizens moving in and voting them out. Needless to say these aldercreatures are doing very little to help them become legal or learn the language.

Albanyparkour

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:25:24 -0600

This is simply a political game being played by alderman, a bit of theater to make is seem that they are "DOING SOMETHING" about the issue. Again, it's about the economy being reliant on an underclass it cannot do without. Every discussion that doesn't begin and end with that as a central theme is little more than a merry tea party.

fremo

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:24:22 -0600

Fed Up, I'm not on the side of Daley and co. here - the point was, that is how they see it. Its all about revenue and making the money to cover that budget - then the next year, it happens all over again. But on a seperate track, I'll ask the question that I've posted before. Law is not enforcable/broken. Everyone says, build the wall. You still got the 10 million or so inside. To enforce the rule the country hasn't been enforcing (well) for the several past decades, we're going to need signifigant manpower. I imagine it will take a lot of money to do that. Ideas?

Ward Up

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:17:43 -0600

"....25th Ward Alderman Danny Solis, who requested the hearing, suggested that cook county jail guards or assistant state's attorneys might be turning names over to ICE...." That is really a good one. Ald. Solis, an open borders zealot, wants to protect persons arrested for crimes from any scrutiny by ICE. That demand achieves a whole new level of absurdity. Perhaps Solis should read about what has happened in San Francisco, where sanctuary has led to crime-after-crime by illegal immigrants who stay in the country thanks to SF sanctuary city policy. Mayor Daley should take note of the San Francisco debacle also, since SF Mayor Gavin Newsome has plummetted in the polls because of his sanctuary for illegals, including sanctuary for those convicted of committing crimes.

Albanyparkour

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:07:34 -0600

Do you have a source or link for that Fed up or do you simply have more 5th grade taunts to share with us?

fed up

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:00:14 -0600

That from Todays Washington times Albany go back to reading the redeye to be informed.

fed up

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:56:37 -0600

Disruptions to the economy like the cost of illegals using hosp emergency rooms as there primary source of health care causing hundreds of Hosp to close. diruptions to the economy like extra police needed in areas with high concentrations of street gangs, or the added cost of building and staffing more schools for the ones overcrowded wth illegal immigrants children or the cost of an illegal immigrant that gets into a car and drives without insurance and then hits your car or the lost taxes from illegal getting paid in cash for the jobs they do. Your right there are a lot of disruptions to the economy from illegal immigrants

fremo

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:49:46 -0600

I think the reason the city had this discussion is that the illegal immigrants make up a signifigant portion of the economy for the county. To have that disrupted would be a nightmare for Daley and co., considering that they're facing a 400 million shortfall and need all of the sales tax funds they can get. Certain aldermen have large #s of illegals in their neighborhoods, who hold a decent amount of sway in those communities. Cities/states have long thumbed their noses at the fed - its only when someone sues, then takes it through the court system that a law like Chicago's can be challenged and scrapped. That's what is happening in SF right now.

Albanyparkour

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:49:26 -0600

You're using Fox News as a source for anything other than comedy? Really, do try harder.

fed up

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:43:29 -0600

A U.S. Border Patrol agent was held at gunpoint Sunday night by members of the Mexican military who had crossed the border into Arizona, but the soldiers returned to Mexico without incident when backup agents responded to assist. Agents assigned to the Border Patrol station at Ajo, Ariz., said the Mexican soldiers crossed the international border in an isolated area about 100 miles southwest of Tucson and pointed rifles at the agent, who was not identified. It was unclear what the soldiers were doing in the United States, but U.S. law enforcement authorities have long said that current and former Mexican military personnel have been hired to protect drug and migrant smugglers. Yeah why even have borders. More enforcment of our countries laws is what is needed not less. I would agree that the best place to begin is to go after buisnesses that knowingly employee illegal immigrants. If U.S. employers were not so quick to hire illegal immigrants there would be less incentive to come here illegally.

matilda

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:39:37 -0600

And brittanicus you are clearly a fascist. Facist? Can you people even think for yourselves without relying on terms that, thanks to overuse by ideologues and partisans, carry little meaning anymore? (Same goes for patriot, socialist and many uses of racist.) Christ, English is such a great language with words imported from various sources over the last thousand years or so that can describe nearly every shade of meaning. Use it. It's a wonderful tool. I mean, aren't most of you either in college or college graduates? Or, at the least, read or reread your Orwell, especially "Politics and the English Language" and this thoughts (from the WWII era) about the how a certain term we all seem to love--the famous F word--had lost all meaning even then.

fed up

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:37:16 -0600

Im sure an American who moved to mexico and demanded a free education and health care and then voted illeagly would have a lot of support there.

mepps

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:35:25 -0600

How can Chicago have a law that exists only to go against a federal law? I asked this before, and I seriously want to know. Arent the police and detectives locally, bound ultimately by federal law? Local policies and ordinances may exist, but none of these can trump federal law. The only place I know that this is possible is on an Indian reservation. Also wouldn't today's hearing be entirely illegal as well? How can an entire city have a meeting about how to disobey federal law?

Scooter Libbby

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:31:08 -0600

First, very few came here in the past, before WWII illegally. But far more interesting is the comment, "Arrest Harold Worthington under the Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A)" Who is Harold Worthington? If you mean Harold Washington, then you're an idiot for not know either his correct name or that he's been dead for years. And Daley & all the others are in deep shit if they keep up this policy of not turning illegals over to the feds. There is a very real possibility that the mayor of San Francisco will get indicted of a similar policy. SF has had murders committed by illegals that weren't turned in & all hell is breaking loose out there.

Kevin Robinson

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:25:59 -0600

Brittanicus: I think it's gonna be pretty hard to arrest a dead guy....

matty

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:20:30 -0600

And brittanicus you are clearly a fascist.

matty

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:19:53 -0600

And how many of "us" have parents, grand parents and great grandparents who came here undocumented? I think these actions are racist, unjust and unnecessary. The most important thing we need to do in the US is get undocumented workers documented and get them on the path to citizenship...

matty

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:17:55 -0600

I bet anything they got them from the records of whoever makes those "matricular consular" cards. Undocumented immigrants stay undocumented because of crap like this.

Brittanicus

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:11:52 -0600

Arrest Harold Worthington under the Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A): He is aiding and abetting illegal immigration. Arrest any person who violates THE PEOPLE's Immigration laws. I congradulate the informant 'Whistle Blower' who contacted ICE... All politicians, Governors, Mayors and a insipid retinue of lesser agents of the people be aware that it is a serious offense, for any community in America to ignore federal laws. Some politicians governments have completely intentionally violate 'THE PEOPLE'S Immigration legislation. Federal Immigration and Nationality Act Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii) "Any person who ... encourages or induces an alien to ... reside ... knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such ... residence is ... in violation of law, shall be punished as provided ... for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs ... fined under title 18 ... imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both." Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A): A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he: * assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or * encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or * knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions. I think (ICE) has revised the amount of the fine, so the Mayor Newson and his retinue, should be arrested and go before a federal district judge for sentencing. Then again, Los Angeles is a nemesis along with all the other 'SANCTUARY States or communities Today! Now! We need the Federal SAVE ACT (H.R.4088), which the Democrats are refusing to co-author. If we don't get this law through Congress, we will be facing another AMNESTY. That means more taxes for citizens to pay, to supplement the low wage income of lawbreakers, that parasite business ignore. After the first AMNESTY given by Obama or McCain, millions more will sweep across our perforated border, then more waves of poverty stricken people will be paying for. Ice has a free tip-line: 1-866-DHS-2ICE for intelligence to locate illegal aliens, or predatory businesses that employ them. Sign up for free at www.numbersusa.com and stop the next AMNESTY. DON'T BLAME THE MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS SQUATTING HERE, THE PREDATORY BUSINESSES ARE THE ONES WHO ATTRACT THEM!

Brittanicus

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:06:50 -0600

Fox news broad casted yesterday that people had been mislead or intentionally allowed illegal immigrants to vote. An Australian lady, had been given the so-called 'Motor voter' application and told to fill in the application to vote. Even after she had explained to the individual, that she was unable to vote because she was not a citizen. She was still prompted to do so. The question now is how many illegal aliens have now committed perjury, either intentionally or by error and will now be voting in the November general election. Those who conspire in this act, and the pro-illegal immigrant groups who violate 'The voting rights' act, should spend 5 years in a prison cell. Most of the voting precinct staff do not question, or have not the experience to question any illegal foreign nationals voting, However, this is a dire threat to our Democracy, as such times such as Florida, when just a few hundred votes could change the whole future of these United States. Google Voter Fraud and check the facts at NUMBERSUSA. Induce your Democratic Representative to sponsor the Federal SAVE ACT (H.R.4088)

fed up

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:01:18 -0600

From "Illegal Immigrants Are Voting in American Elections" by Hans A. von Spakovsky, August 4th 2008 "In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presidential vote margin in Florida in 2000. Indeed, the Census Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida, and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state." Illegal aliens are breaking plenty of laws. It is a joke that city alderman feel that certain laws should not be enforced. I wonder if Rev Meeks would have more money for the poor students in his community if it wasnt for illegal immigrants overcrowding the schools. Ald. Ocasio and Solis are just trying to protect their illegal voting block. I wonder what Ald Munoz whos daddy was convicted of helping make ID's for illegals had to say.

Natalia1979

Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:55:22 -0600

Now if only they would choose not to enforce other federal laws like a certain medical "smoke" policy...