Chicagoist: Humboldt Park Teen Brain Dead

Tower18

Wed, 03 Sep 2008 12:46:36 -0600

Seems to ME, I mean.

Tower18

Wed, 03 Sep 2008 12:44:00 -0600

While true, H.P. is 65% Hispanic. It seems to be that the larger Black concentration is farther South (and indeed West) of where this occurred. I have driven through there before--the stretch of Chicago Ave. through the Western fringes of Humboldt Park is not to be messed with.

vise77

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:33:16 -0600

Actually, there are quite a few blacks in Humboldt Park, particularly west of Kedzie. Some of you should drive through there sometime.

Tower18

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 16:47:42 -0600

With a homicide victimizaion rate 6 times higher than whites, am I off base with my focus on the Black community, and Its need to addresss this issue? In this particular story, maybe, as all involved appear to be Hispanic, in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood.

Chris_60614

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:46:27 -0600

Wormy? K, like for sure man. You criticized me for dramatics? I believe it was b/c you thought I was stating the obvious...your the one with the flag cliche and the reference to the real world. cheers from fantasy land.

matilda

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:35:37 -0600

D: Just preempting, as other people are probably reading this and calling me a racist. I can agree with your "small issue" idea. But what is your general problem with expecting communities to do more for their own? This includes parents being more responsible--or not having kids if they can't--and various other measures.

Chicago D

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:23:58 -0600

Matilda, You called you a racist. Remember? That was you, not me. Chris, I criticized YOU for dramatics. You are a wormy one, that's for sure. What HAS been tried? More law enforcement of "small" issues. If you pulled over every car with its radio illegally loud, and patted down every curfew violator, you'd do a lot to lock down this sort of behavior. Start there for helping today.

matilda

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:13:28 -0600

Fine, D. Then what do you propose that hasn't been tried already? What will work better than some groups doing more for their communities? Call me a racist, call me whatever--don't care; labels are cheap--but I am interested in your answer(s). After all, we all live in the same city, and I'd rather not have to worry about getting shot, or watch others get shot, especially the innocent bystanders.

Chris_60614

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:07:15 -0600

Spare us the dramatics D, and I dont really get the analogy with the whole flag thing...do positions in a debate have flags? My position stands as it was before. Personal responsibility (as we both agree) coupled with assistance from responsible gov't (I feel the situation calls for the national guard, you dont, fair enough). With a homicide victimizaion rate 6 times higher than whites, am I off base with my focus on the Black community, and Its need to addresss this issue?

Chicago D

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:05:32 -0600

Matilda: "Then I am a racist, too, I guess. And most people I know--including some blacks, Mexicans, Asians, socialist Europeans, etc." Yes. You agree with me in the wrong way.

matilda

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 13:51:36 -0600

Chicago D: The rule applies to all communites, but some--certain black and Hispanic communites--are hurting much more than others. Odd: I agree with you on "personal responsibility," but apperently in an incorrect way.

Chicago D

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 13:44:01 -0600

Oh boy. Chris and Matilda. You two are a real treat. Chris, at the beginning of this, you were screaming about more police, and how sad this was. Now you are wrapping yourself in the flag of having the black community heal itself. Is your other handle "Waether Vane"? Oh, and Humboldt Park is overwhelmingly Hispanic, rather than black. In other words, you may, in fact, be a racist, since you are all over the black community and . . . nobody else. Sheesh. Where's Spook when we need him?

matilda

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 13:37:49 -0600

If believing that this community needs to fix itself from within, with more personal responsibility as you suggest, coupled with assistance from responsible gov't makes me a racist, so be it. Then I am a racist, too, I guess. And most people I know--including some blacks, Mexicans, Asians, socialist Europeans, etc.

Chris_60614

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 13:31:12 -0600

D, Agreed that more personal responsibility is part of the answer. I guess we differ in that your version of personal responsibility would be for people to avoid the free fire zones at appropriate times. I would advocate more proactive solutions, such as not abandoning your children, or demanding more from your community leaders than bullshit stunts in Winnetka. Obviously I am talking about the Black community when I am refering to the "culture and society" imploding in Chicago. This community has a 70% illegitimacy rate nationally, and I believe this leads to a number of social ills including the violence we see in this city. I could go on with incarceration rates, and murder rates by gunshot. If believing that this community needs to fix itself from within, with more personal responsibility as you suggest, coupled with assistance from responsible gov't makes me a racist, so be it.

Chicago D

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 13:07:05 -0600

Chris, Trying to link my position with the asswipes "boycotting" school is just silly. More guns in the mix is not answer. More personal responsibility is part of the answer. I would be curious whether you'd be willing to actually say what the "culture and society" that is imploding is.

Chris_60614

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:48:18 -0600

So what do you suggest D? Sounds like the 'real world' to you is one where random death by gunfire is just another fact of life. Excuse me for stating the obvious, but the fact that it continues unchecked seems to stem from the fact that many like you see this and just say, "Aw shucks." At what point will cleanish living include body armour and side arms? What about those gunned down outside of school at 3pm? Aw damn. The violence is merely a symptom of a cuture and society that here in Chicago is simply imploding. This may not be very insightful to someone as hip and worldly as you D, but how is it that nobody will say so? Everything has to be an external locus of control. So instead of any attempt (even rural speed trap jockies) to end random death by gunfire, we get the local charlatan telling kids to skip school and participate in political grandstanding at New Trier.

Chicago D

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:25:41 -0600

Chris, Hey, that's super. As if you are the only one who wishes there were not violence. That's pretty insightful. For those of us living in the real world, adding edgy National Guard soldiers to an otherwise violent mix seems like asking for Kent State II. No thanks. Same with rural speed trap jockies (i.e. State Troopers). Also, I rarely agree with Ward Up, but that has to be part of this discussion. Drive through any of the "dangerous" neighborhoods in the city and you will see an amount of "street life" you don't see elsewhere. Kids and whole families out at 2 a.m. the same as if it were 2 p.m. But it isn't 2 p.m., and bad things happen in the middle of the night. Go to bed, get a good night's sleep, get up early, and enjoy the daylight. It is called clean(ish) living, and it alone will help you avoid being a victim of violence.

Chris_60614

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:26:34 -0600

People please! 2pm? 2am? Who cares!? Bullets should not be flying through the air at any time of day! I consider it unacceptable, that in America, there should be anytime of day that one and one's family should remain inside b/c their neighborhood is now a free-fire zone. WTF? Now we have a 10-year killed in much the same manner as Eternity. Why can't we call it what it is: a war zone.

Tower18

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:25:02 -0600

The original Tribune article pretty much flat out said that they moved to PA because family members were "gonna join a gang." Doesn't seem too hard to believe that years later, some of those relatives actually DID join gangs, and everything that comes along with gangs, including drive-by shootings of innocent bystanders.

Marcus Gilmer

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:24:59 -0600

Ward Up - calm down, what part of my comment was "scolding"? Ophmarketing asked what was she doing outside at 2 am? And I answered based on the information supplied by news reports. I didn't criticize OPH at all for having that line of thinking. I did make mere speculation as to what may have happened, but it was just that: speculation. And not a "scolding," as you put it.

Ward Up

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:17:59 -0600

I just want to echo what ophmarketing wrote. And add the point that, too often, when a commenter on this blog criticizes irresponsible parents or irresponsible victims, the commenter gets corrected or scolded. Are we mean for criticizing irresponsible behavior? I don't think so. People are responsible for their actions. They might be responsible for such things as not looking for a job in five years, or for walking in front of a train, or for going outside in a high-crime area with a daughter at 2:00 AM. The latter action is just plain stupid. I don't care if they were preparing for a trip to Pennsylvania or conducting a cold fusion experiment. I hope the other mothers on this block will act more responsibly than did this girl's mother. There. I said it. I guess I am evil.

Marcus Gilmer

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 09:30:25 -0600

Ophmarketing - I could be wrong, but according to news reports I read, the girl and her mother were up to make a run to a 24-hour grocery store to get food/supplies for an early morning Amtrak/Greyhound to return to Pennsylvania. And it wasn't in the street, per se, it appears she was hanging out in front of the house/apartment building she was staying at with her family. So it's not like she was simply loitering. Of course, there's always more to the story, but odds are one of her cousins was a target and she was simply an innocent bystander.

ophmarketing

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 09:23:48 -0600

Yes, it's a shame. No, it shouldn't happen. And no, time of day is no excuse... But again, I'm going to ask...why was a 13-year-old girl hanging out in the street at TWO O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING?

fed up

Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:06:58 -0600

chris the level of violence is unacceptable but the crime rate is actually lower now than any time during the 80's 90's or 2000-2003. all of a sudden the news is covering inner city violence insted of ignoring the problem

Chris_60614

Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:50:49 -0600

Someone please explain to me why Blago's idea to bring the National Guard to Chicago was laughed at by Daley and other local officals? Does anyone else find this unacceptable? Is it that much of a stretch to claim that, over that last 4 months, places like Beruit and Baghdad are actually safer than Chicago? If Barack Obama is to be President, so be it. Im sure he has learned his lesson with regards to "surges." Chicago could use a surge right about now; the National Guard, Superfriends, Batman, whomever. This place is a warzone. Is it not?

A2

Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:46:05 -0600

How sickening.