Chicagoist: Obama-Muslim Connection Won't Go Away

fed up

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:08:21 -0600

Alabany saying change over and over again doesn't really count as talking about the issues. Something else Flag pins,the pledge and Rev wright are all issues from the Dem Primary you can thank your good friends the Clintons for that. But being a smart Liberal you must have forgot that bit of history.

Chris_60614

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:46:57 -0600

Albany, You could take the above post and fill it in like a template using all the leftist/democrat slogans as well. Both parties are run by elites on the backs of lemmings. Lets be honest here peeps, you dont get one step away from the most powerful position in the world by being one of societies have-nots. It just doesnt happen. Lets end this already, this is a my team is better then your team junior high playground cluster fuck. Washington is Washington. The shit is the same, the teams just wear different color jerzeys.

Albanyparkour

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:34:36 -0600

Republicans arguments are inherently less intelligent, but that's been a conscious choice of the, quite intellgent, party core for years. Keep churning things like "Drill Here, Drill Now!" and "Flag pins! Rev. Wright! Pledge!" as opposed to actual issues, keep the base chanting "USA! USA!" because what? Barack Obama is from Canada or something? It's jingoism, sloganeering and pandering and the party base just laps it up. Keep the plebs dumb and Capital can do whatever it pleases.

Albanyparkour

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:30:54 -0600

What you guys are missing is that BOTH views can be valid, you seem to think that ONLY YOUR view is valid. The ironic thing in thinking that, is that you lose elections. First off, I don't agree with Obama. I don't believe in private handgun ownership. Period. He's more to the right than I am. Second, there's not always "another side" this is right-wing dissembling and left-wing niggling. Turning every argument into something where there are two points of view is a trick. Finally, yes, I think I'm right, not on everything and I may be wrong on everything, but I believe in what I do and stand up for it. That's what principles are, and that's far more important than ANY election.

fed up

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:25:13 -0600

Well looking at how the democrat city that Obama calls home treats gun rights Obama must think people are stupid when he states he supports gun rights. Or it's all a ruse and he's the Manchurian Muslim Elitist who is going to raise taxes and kill babies for fun. I dont think he would kill baby's for fun.

mepps

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:54:57 -0600

Alabany, that's how you see the guns thing, but other people DON'T see it that way. What you guys are missing is that BOTH views can be valid, you seem to think that ONLY YOUR view is valid. The ironic thing in thinking that, is that you lose elections.

Navin

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:53:12 -0600

Yeah Ward, Rush Limbaugh's got the most successfull radio show in the entire country and he never calls Democrats/Liberals dumb. Not being a Democrat or Republican I think they're both dumb, Republicans definitely dumber though. Look at Mepps.....

Ward Up

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:41:47 -0600

In a few of the comments above or in other recent posts, Leftcagoist commenters call Republicans "stupid" or "ignorant" or "dumb." Did you ever notice this is a characteristic behavior of Democrats? Don't you liberals realize that maybe, just maybe, you are not as smart as you think you are? The condescension is so thick you can cut it with a knife. The more you call the Republicans dumb, the you will push people in the middle over to the Republican side. Since you Democrats are so smart, you should be able to figure that out.

Albanyparkour

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:25:59 -0600

Do you feel Obama was staying on message when he was in San Francisco at an elite fundraiser talking down about small town America clinging to their religion and guns. Christ, but I am TIRED of this quote being dragged about. Look, the point he was making, and if you read the whole damn paragraph, not even the whole speech, you see it, was that the republican party has rallied the troops for decades by using wedge issues about religion and guns. See 2004 with the gay marriage nonsense. Or Sarah Palin and her 'gun-totin' mama' routine. Or Creationism, or any other NON-ISSUE that the right uses to scare people into thinking that democrats are going to go after your daughters with with abortion machines whilst stealing your guns to fire at copies of the bible. He wasn't calling people stupid for believing in God, he wasn't saying that gun owners are dumb, his point was that the republican party has made it their policy to use FEAR as a means of getting out the vote. Fear over guns, gays and god. Or it's all a ruse and he's the Manchurian Muslim Elitist who is going to raise taxes and kill babies for fun.

mepps

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:07:29 -0600

listen to you- yuckin it up. lonely, I think you and Spook are the loneliest ones here. I seriously don't know what you do, if anything all day long beyond waiting for any new updates on Chicagoist.

matilda

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:58:10 -0600

Mepps: If you really are that lonely, there are various online dating sites you can try that would be more valuable to you than this Web site. Good luck with your romantic adventures, and please wear protection.

mepps

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:53:09 -0600

I truly believe I would; douchebags in tight jeans and one leg rolled are way too skinny to figure out a serious confrontation.

fed up

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:51:19 -0600

Ash, Do you feel Obama was staying on message when he was in San Francisco at an elite fundraiser talking down about small town America clinging to their religion and guns. Obama had no problem clinging to his so called religion at Trinity Church when it was helping him win local elections. Then the ideas of rev. Wright became embarrasing to him on a national level so he threw Wright under the bus. It should not matter if he is muslim or mormon or christian but at the same time the GOP didnt make his faith an issue his fellow dems did.

ashprintzen

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:39:48 -0600

Cheers, and apologies, because I certainly did not mean for my initial comment to be a personal attack (funny, I realize given that I was taking issue with what you wrote). We can certainly agree though, it was hard for me to understand as well, having watched what was going on in Minneapolis and come away from that thinking to myself, "Wow, that sure makes me optimistic for the future!" And yet, for better or worse, some if not many of the issues brought forth at the convention do resonate with people. Or for some, their misgivings about Senator Obama are strong enough that they prefer McCain. Again, not ideas that I agree with, but certainly reasonable enough. While I would agree that it is smoke and mirrors that allows the GOP to utilize a culture war rather than real, substantative issues (I mean, were they really running a campaign of kicking out the Washington establishment?? Really?), I do certainly think that the percentage of ill-informed, easily swayed voters is probably the same on both sides of the aisle.

Slaphappy

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:32:27 -0600

Clarification duly noted and appreciated, Ashprintzen. I don't think that the Republican base is stupid -- hell, that would put most of my family in that column and I don't think any of them are stupid. The people I think are stupid are the ones who watched the RNC do little else beyond trashing their opponent -- they certainly offer much in the way of solutions -- and decided "yep, that's the ticket for me." I just don't get it.

Slaphappy

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:26:11 -0600

Ashprintzen said: "[T]he sentiment of comments like Slap's is precisely why leftists are seen (fairly or unfairly) as being elitist." Mepps said: "I couldn't agree more!"

ashprintzen

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:25:58 -0600

Just to clarify, because I think that Matilda has an important point previously...when I utilized the term elitist, I certainly did not mean it to imply the same sort of thing that the GOP does when it throws it around (hell, I'm a left-leaning, academic from NYC originally so...I think I probably fall into their classification of elitism). Rather, I think I was trying to point at a frustration I have with Democratic/Left politics of the last decade or so, that have largely seen the right wing/Republicans (who I might add, have found a way to effectively win most national elections) as backwater/hickish/less intelligent, etc...etc...As a strategy I think it is part of the reason the Dems have lost working class votes, particularly nationally. Again, I am happy to note that Senator Obama's campaign has seemed to try, and been fairly effective at staying on message, and actually offering alternatives, rather than anger, silly pot shots at Dubya or belittling of part of the electorate.

Slaphappy

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:24:32 -0600

Mepps, you wouldn't say that to my face.

Albanyparkour

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:23:10 -0600

And, if you ever feel like putting words in my mouth or making up completely fake qoutes, feel free to put my cock in you mouth first. I would love to see someone use that line, or one like it and have their target say "Sure, drop trou big boy."

matilda

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:14:45 -0600

And, if you ever feel like putting words in my mouth or making up completely fake qoutes, feel free to put my cock in you mouth first. Odd for a person who claims to know a stranger's exact politics by reading few lines on a blog. You have no credibility--and no, this has nothing to do with liberal vs conservative, or whatever superficial scheme you have set up for yourself to get you through the day. By the way, you should have used "you're," in the above post, not "your," though I suppose I am elite just by having thoughts of grammar bounce through my brain.

mepps

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:07:31 -0600

SlapHappy- Your a joke. I never called anyone an Elitist. Unless you count your completely made up fabricated qoute as real. - Your essentially trying to argue with yourself. And, if you ever feel like putting words in my mouth or making up completely fake qoutes, feel free to put my cock in you mouth first.

matilda

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:53:03 -0600

Who is the elitist? Answer: No one. Everyone. You. I. Your brother. Your boss. That classmate of yours who made millions on online porn before his 30th birthday and now drinks nothing but the rarest types of Sam Adams. McCain. Obama. Romney. Biden. Palin. Gore. Clinton (all of them, kid included). Carter--Jimmy Carter, certainly. Ron Magers. Jerry Taft (you can see it in his puffy face). Dick Wolf. All athletes. That snooty kid who works the coffee counter. That recluse reading Camus in the library. That homeless guy who likes showers and clean needles. All NPR announcers. Rush Limbaugh (do any of his cigars sell for less than $100?). Anyone who drivers a Beamer. Anyone who likes Wrigley Field but not the Cubs. Anyone who likes the Cubs but not the Sox. That snooty taxi driver from somewhere in Asia who is fluent in three languages (and you're not!). Librarians. Politicians. Americans. French people. Oxford-educated Brits. Upper crust South Koreans. Snobby Namibians. Any former member of the working class who went to college and wears ties every day. Anyone who wears Dockers. Or Kenneth Cole. Or Gap. Or freshly-ironed Wranglers. All of fucking humanity. None of fucking humanity. My mother. Your mother. My candidate. Your candidate. Did we cover it yet?

Navin

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:40:04 -0600

Easy Navin, you can wipe that sweat away and get your liberal card back. You can still tell all those ladies in bucktown how hip and interesting you are. I was just playin cuz, but I reckon you knew that. O.K. "Stringer" *rolls eyes*, you've pretty much played your hand here with the weak ad hominem attack. So if you didn't mean what you said then why bother to say it all? So what exactly to you have to add to this conversation other than trying to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote? Or are "you just playin?" At the very least try to bring some Lester Freamon level cleverness to the table here. "Bucktown", well I did live in bucktown for one year in '96.

Slaphappy

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:36:03 -0600

You're right, Ashpritzen and Mepps. I am an elitist. I happen to think that the United States of America is the elite country on earth. And I don't want to see that change in my lifetime. Despite his actions and policies, George W. Bush wasn't able to knock us off of our pedestal, nor was he able to diminish my patriotism or determination to leave this world a better place than I found it. And with that, I want the best candidate to be my President. So if that makes me an elitist, go ahead and print my badge.

Chuck Sudo

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:35:24 -0600

I'm gonna go read comments at Deadspin now.

Slaphappy

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:32:26 -0600

Oh yeah? Well, well... you're an ELITIST! And a liberal, too! --Mepps

Albanyparkour

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:31:46 -0600

Mepps: You'd be amazed, AMAZED, she tells you. And tells you, and tells you. If your background isn't evident in what you say and how you say it all the attempts at bumping your cred are just pissing in the breeze. It's why I love the slam on Obama as elitist. The guy EMBODIES the "American Dream" republicans love to trot out. A guy rises from modest means, gets into one of the best schools in the world and rises to prominence there, works in his community, succeeds up the ladder from office to office. John McCain? He's legally disabled and recieves a pension to that effect, plus a senate salary, plus his wife's millions, plus his own family fortune. Who is the elitist?

BaxterJ

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:31:20 -0600

But Christian faith right after Muslim faith, so he corrects himself.

matilda

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:25:54 -0600

Mepps: Yeah, I never thought of it that way ... thanks for the insight ... you made me change my mind ... job well done ... How 'bout this: What do you think is an "elite," and how can one prevent oneself from becoming an "elite"? Yes, I am giving you a change to engage. Are you up to it, or do you prefer to traffic in labels that, besides being an insult our intelligence, are rarely accurate? In short, are you a citizen or a subject? If the former, I encourage you to act like it.

mepps

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:12:00 -0600

Matilda- you play so well into my point, thank you. enough said.

matilda

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:07:34 -0600

Mepps: That you apparently think I am a "true liberal" says much about your thought process and willingness to assume what you feel must be true. In short, you assume far too much. But if that is the best comeback you can have, gold star for effort, even if it is sad that some people can't tell propaganda from reality, and don't know when they are being used. You might be amazed at some of the votes I have cast, for instance. Or some of my political views, which I often share here. Or my background, which is as about as far as a standard GOP view of elite can get. Or ... well, I hope you get the point. Or don't. Who knows.

Chris_60614

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:00:14 -0600

Matilda, Totally agree. Same to be said for 'racist' these days.

mepps

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:58:50 -0600

"Seriously, "elitist"? People really use that phrase with a straight face, as though the phrase is nothing more than meaningless propaganda? Funny. Sad." -Matilda Said with the arrogance only a true liberal could muster.

Stringer_Bell

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:53:40 -0600

matilda

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:45:55 -0600

Seriously, "elitist"? People really use that phrase with a straight face, as though the phrase is nothing more than meaningless propaganda? Funny. Sad.

Albanyparkour

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:44:25 -0600

@Navin: Congressional candidate skipped the code words, went right to the word itself. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/04/georgia_gop_congressman_calls.html Nothing but class.

ashprintzen

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:43:16 -0600

Just as an aside, it certainly encourages me that Senator Obama, whatever his flaws may be, certainly seems to understand this precise principle of the value of rational, respectful update, rather than name calling or polarization.

mepps

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:42:09 -0600

"Seriously, even if one thinks these attacks are ridiculous (umm and offensive), and disagrees with McCain...but the sentiment of comments like Slap's is precisely why leftists are seen (fairly or unfairly) as being elitist. Ok, so you disagree with McCain/Palin, me too. But there are people who do agree with them, or have legitimate problems with Obama's record, etc...whose vote will be just as informed as yours." I couldn't agree more! These same people don't understand how or why Obama could be losing and chalk it up to the lies and propoganda from Republicans- They refuse to see any point or critisism as valid or as a legitimate idea and immediately write it off as lies.

ashprintzen

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:39:26 -0600

Umm, Slap implied that a McCain victory would essentially reflect the stupidity and simplicity of American voters. Really? That isn't an elitist point of view in your mind? This has nothing to do with catch phrases or controlling the dialogue. All it has to do with is a point about the silliness and, yes, eltism that does somewhat come through for those who fall absolutely on either side of red or blue.

Slaphappy

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:37:39 -0600

Seriously, even if one thinks these attacks are ridiculous (umm and offensive), and disagrees with McCain...but the sentiment of comments like Slap's is precisely why leftists are seen (fairly or unfairly) as being elitist. The sentiment of my comment is that there is no gaffe. Period. It should be obvious to any reasonable person that he isn't saying he's a Muslim.

Navin

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:36:22 -0600

Just to be clear and to put this in the most simplest terms for you: There's no distinction when it comes to critical thought and FFS I obviously didn't mean what you're implying.

Navin

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:34:23 -0600

Naturally I used the term because of Congressman Westmoreland's recent use of it and because elitist seems to be a GOP code word for "upitty" when referring *to Obama*, much like when Reagan used "States Rights" in Mississippi. But I reckon' you knew that Stringer.

Stringer_Bell

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:57:15 -0600

Hey thanks Navin! Really appreciate you making the distinction between uppity blacks and then those that engage in critical thought. Sounds pretty elitist to me.

Navin

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:51:28 -0600

I'm lol-ing at the idea of 'leftists' having anything to do with Obama. This 'leftist' / 'elitist' talk is hi-larious. I'm happy to be 'elitist' if it's as defined by conservative terms: An uppity black person or anyone else who tries to engage in critical thought.

ashprintzen

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:27:01 -0600

Seriously, even if one thinks these attacks are ridiculous (umm and offensive), and disagrees with McCain...but the sentiment of comments like Slap's is precisely why leftists are seen (fairly or unfairly) as being elitist. Ok, so you disagree with McCain/Palin, me too. But there are people who do agree with them, or have legitimate problems with Obama's record, etc...whose vote will be just as informed as yours.

matilda

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:26:28 -0600

I remember being naive enough, perhaps a year ago, to think this campaign, perhaps one of the most important in US history, would be relatively heavy on substance, not style because, after all, we are living in interesting times. Yet it has turned the most intense version yet of "let's see who said the wrong word today." Instead of more debate on policy, we get to play the game of spot the gaffe. Yes, presidential candidates should be held to their words, and should show an above average ability to say the right thing--world leaders are nearly always under the microscope, and small mistakes in wording have led to conflict in world history. But we seem to have no tolerance for any gaffe, and fall all over ourselves to express outrage over any tiny mistake. (The same goes for both candidates.) And instead of talking more about our crushing federal debt, or our health-care mess, or our defense strategies for the next generation, or infrastructure, or energy, or whatever, we simply waste more time on yet another stupid gaffe. A campaign of trivia. And then there is this, another gold star for our citizenry: Stephanopoulos is a stack of dung in a cheap suit. Is is possible, Albany, for you to offer a point or idea, or to submit an argument, without resorting to silly personal insults? What on earth do they accomplish? Do you think they lend you credibility? I know you love to quote some great writers--you seem to have good taste in words--but, when they did stoop to personal insult--which was relatively rare--they at least did so with wit and originality and a sense of literary and intellectual purpose, none of which you show in your insults. I think you can do better; all of us can do better. All of, whether we like it or not, play a part in setting the tone and debate, whether on a blog or in a national campaign.

Chris_60614

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:25:34 -0600

Yeah, it also sucks if you are a taxpayer. But who cares, and the debate is really only academic at this point....do you really think the likely Democratic Congress is going to extend the Bush tax program? N, pleeeze!

mepps

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:17:23 -0600

Is this the same interview where Obama said he wouldn't roll back Bush's tax cuts?? That sucks if your pro-Obama.

theplantguy

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:05:05 -0600

I don't think it was a "gaffe", I think it was SARCASM. He should have done the old "air quotes" when he said "my Muslim fail".

JD84

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:01:24 -0600

I heard somewhere that he's a tewwowist and doesn't cover his heart during the pledge, he must against America!!

Chris_60614

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:57:55 -0600

Hey slap, Agreed, and think its equally as stupid when the stock, "was what he said racist?" gaffe happens to the other side. Lemmings exist in both camps. I could give a fuck who Obama's imaginary friend is! All this hope and change bullshit he is pushing is just like organized religon, and has been accepted as so by people that usually shun ideologues. Is Jesus coming tomorrow? About as likely as an Obama sitting in the white house not beholden to special interests and the like, and able to bring about real change. MG, Nice pull. This is going to be worth 25 comments fo shizzle.

Albanyparkour

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:50:36 -0600

Stephanopoulos is a stack of dung in a cheap suit. Remember how this ass-clown spent more than 2/3 of a debate between Clinton and Obama rehashing every idiotic smear (Rev. Wright, Flag Pins) as opposed to asking anything approaching a SUBSTATIVE question? Seriously, I'd rather watch Obama's sit-down with Bill O'Reilly. At least with the Loofah man you have no pretensions to objectivity.

Slaphappy

Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:41:33 -0600

That this could even be considered a gaffe is more proof that the American public is indeed stupid enough to elect McCain-Palin in November.