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The House voted down the Bailout 228-205 ... and then guess what happened? The market plunged! The biggest non-surprise? Apparently John McCain's emergency suspension of his campaign last week did little to solve the problems within his own party since Republicans voted against the bailout in overwhelming numbers. Ready for round two? Let's go!
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Looks like the chickens have finally come home to roost or perhaps its a well deserved pox on our "home"
Clearly this is Barack Hussein Obama's fault. He kept campaigning and ruined our unity.
You know I'd be happy to write part time for you guys. *shrug*
hey tankboy, you going to see kid cudi tonight at evil olive?
Tankboy do a little research dont just glance at CNN's headlines when you dip into something besides music.yeah it's the GOP fault Obama's campaign co chair Jessie Jackson Jr. he would be a Dem voted no. Booby Rush who I believe is supporting Obama after whooppin that ass a few years ago in a congressional race voted no. I believe he's a dem. Lipinski and Costello Ill Dems and Obama supporters voted NO. Maybe just maybe there was Bi partisan oppisition to this bill. But why let the facts get in the way Tank.
REPUBLICANS
Ayes: 65
Noes: 133
That's a 2:1 ratio of Republicans voting against the bill.
And I'm merely reporting the bare facts ... personally I don't agree with the bailout bill as it is either, and I'm pretty solidly a Democrat.
I didn't see the Illinois delegation vote. For the first time I'm proud of Jackson and Rush!
That bailout was our last hope to avoid something approaching a complete economic meltdown.
I am amazed how flip you guys are about this.
I am amazed how flip you guys are about this.
You're right. And, considering we'll all soon be forced to cannibalism, you're looking nice and plump.
Come closer you delicious hunk of man.
Millionaires demanding BILLIONS at the barrel of an economic gun with no help for the MILLIONS of taxpayers stuck in shit loans the caused this whole mess? Oh and no oversight and lots of extra-consitutional authority for non-elected Fed chairperson. I'm quite happy this crashed and burned. Try again congress, try again.
"Gallows humor," matty. Flippancy indicates that we're not recognizing the seriousness of the matter.
Trust me, we know.
got an email from michael moore this morning asking me/us to call our legislators and vote this bad boy down. for whatever you think he's worth, he brought up an interesting point, which is that although everyone is blaming sub-prime mortgages for all the foreclosures (of which i'm sure that's a hefty percent), the top reason people file bankruptcy is medical bills. if we had some universal health care ...
i'm so glad this didn't pass. there is/was so much wrong with it. there's absolutely no reason we need to bailout these guys in such fashion. this whole thing is a disaster, but they've no one but themselves to blame. well, that and a government that deregulated everything.
I'm quite happy this crashed and burned. Try again congress, try again.
Any plan you care to share, perhaps? What do you want to see? More focus on the insurance aspect? More direct payments to homeowners? A stronger oversight of Treasury? What?
I think you will find hardly any true fans of this failed bailout, only people who think it might have been the least of various evils.
Matty,
Not to be flip this Bill will probably get passed soon but bailing out banks for not doing due diligence on the loans they have made and bought is rather silly. If you or I make a bad investment we have to live with it. This reminds me of all the times some big CEO gets on TV and says if I ran my company like the Goverment handles the budget we would be bankrupt.
Tank,
Sorry to come off as harsh. The Dems dont need one GOP vote for this to pass. 72 Dems voted no. I'm not a huge fan of either party but trying to lay blame is silly.
Well, matty...when you got nothing, you've got nothing to lose...which would explain why I never felt a thing during the Financial Panic of 1987.
I'm really scared now. But when you look back on history at other events that caused panic in the financial sector, from the Fall of France in 1940, to the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 there are always big losses in the first month and by one month, one year, five years and ten years later, the markets ALWAYS recover (although we don't have ten years between the Iraq Invasion to tell, but 1 month after the market was already up again.
So, I'll pick a few from my chart:
Fall of France 1940, Gain/loss during event was -16.9%, one month later that gain was 0.7%, 1 year later it was 5.0%, five years later it was up 15.7%.
The big one was the financial panic of 1987, during the even losses were -31.5%, one month later a gain of 7.1%, one year later up again 27.7%, 5 years later 17.0%
Between 1940 and now, the Median gain/ loss during the events were -4.0%, one month later up 3.2%, one year later up 23.7%, five years later up 13.6% and ten years later up 14.6%.
I don't have a financial mind, but history would seem to illustrate that things always rebound. Back in '87 when I was renting an apartment and living paycheck to paycheck with a hundred bucks in my savings account, any financial crisis would have been lost on me. Now, I have a house and I have investments, IRA, etc., and I have a lot more to lose and I'm terrified of this situation now...but I'm also really trying to keep positive, because it will get better.
Today is the first time I've ever turned my TV on during the day since the Twin Towers were attacked. I've gotta stop this...it's not good for stress levels.
fed up, my aside was meant to illustrate my view that McCain was grandstanding with absolutely no actual results in mind. That's all.
Spook,
capital fax has the ILL. delegation breakdown.
Oh hey, I am PSYCHIC! Or psycho. Cause the bailout, or failout, that was clearly Obama's fault. So says John "Suspend my Campaign" McCain.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/14087.html
What a maroon.
Any plan you care to share, perhaps? What do you want to see? More focus on the insurance aspect? More direct payments to homeowners? A stronger oversight of Treasury? What?
The insurance aspect is important, the bailout of bad loans, and not just a write-off for the financial types, that helps home owners is important. Look, these "bad debts" they're humans, CITIZENS, who in a good number of cases were lied to and misled.
No CEO golden parachutes. A suspension of foreclosures and restructuring of loans (an opt in on 30 year fixed vs toxic 2/28) and a full scale sweep out of the FED and big financial firms. If you are a "master of the universe" and screwed the pooch this badly, you should be on your ass, no question.
And no giving the fed uncheck, oversight-less power over the whole damn economy. That's like giving a guy who robs you keys to your car. Bad idea after bad.
I believe Mcain and Obama understand something must be done as do Paulson bernake and most members of congress. What can and should be done is unclear. No one wants to see a depression or prolonged Reccesion. But I think a lot of this credit crisis and bankruptcies need to work through the economy. Time may be the answer.
Mcain has more to lose on this issue since I believe Bush will get most of the blame. Congress is just as culpable and both chambers are controlled by Dems.
Hey Broon-tilda I know exactly what I want to see and I could go into great detail. I want us to invest in America instead of our current continued trickle down policy that includes this "plan". How Dare they toss a few crumbs at the at poor and working class folks to appease Goo Goo liberals like Pelosi and O'Bama so they can feel like they are doing some thing for the people! And Damn Matty I expected more from you! When did you become a Goo Gooo lib!?! Now they are going to scare us into writing yet another check to the corporations! Do you think this is any thing else? They can't even figure out how to unbundle the thousands of bad loans to help those about to default on them! But they sure can figure out how to help wallstreet!
Yea vote this bad boy down. Oh and now you're afraid Matty! Now you are? You should have been afraid along time ago. Shame on you for not seeing this coming. Now your crying! Save it buster
p.s
Oh and if you wanna see a plan Scream Tilda and Matty, just Check out Congressman Dennis Kucinich's plan to stop this coming Depression. Of course you will think its too "communinist" Meanwhile wall Street after stealing us blind comes up with a 7500 billion dollar plan to "save" us and you two feel its the right thing to do.
I say let the good times roll. Maybe this will wake America up finally! So how bout those Cubs! How bout thoes Bears! Chumps
What people should be worried about is the drying up of good credit. By "good" I mean credit to keep small businesses in business. This is what credit always was for. Now, because of the home loan crises and people using their houses has personal credit cards the businesses who keep you and me employed will not have the liquidity they need to stay flexible. Some may even go under.
There is a domino effect going on here that this bailout could have slowed significantly.
No it was not a fix all but keeping banks solvent is the least we can do in this situation.
"I believe Mcain and Obama understand something must be done as do Paulson bernake and most members of congress"
Are you kidding me Fed up! Where do you think Mr. Henry Merritt "Hank" Paulson Jr.
worked before this? The Chicago Coalition for the Homeless? Noooo he was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Goldman Sachs.
And where do you think O'bama( especially O'Bama) and McCain have been getting their campaign funds from? Heck have you been paying attention to how Both of their top advisors are connected into WallStreet and the Mortage companies that begat this crisis? Why do you think both of them were so quite on the issue during the debate? None of them wanted to toss any stones living in those glass mansions
yeah spook Both are in bed with wall street. They have to be have you seen what it costs to get elected.
Paulson was ceo of Goldman, I wont condem him for being a succes. Like I said they know something needs to be done they just don't know what.
"I wont condem him for being a succes"
Fed Up The problem is that success in America has become pyramid and Ponzi schemes at the top. I've been saying this all along. We've got corporate thugs in the board room and congress. And we are so shocked at inner city kids emulating them with get rich and die trying outlooks on life? Yea I hate to say it, but even for a non capitalist, I can say that Goldman Sac,Lehman Brothers, etc have sunk to a new low in the past twenty years.
And how come O'Bama aint lecturing America about corporate greed, like he lectures Jamal about what he aint doing? Because his coffers are filled with coin from corporate thugs and gangsters. He hangs with them, talks with them by phone, etc.
Of course you will think its too "communinist"
Is that related to Marxisist?
Seriouly, I wonder what it would be like to have a dicussion with you if you were able to refrain from making so many assumptions, from pretending to know exactly what people think, from putting words into people's minds.
You clearly are smart and passionate, and have a deep interest in the condition of our country and its history. Yet you continue to assume too much, making any discussion impossible or absurb. Too bad. I am sure real debate with you would be fun and worthwhile, and I am sure I would learn much from you--at the least, I would see things in new light. Hell, you might even change my mind on certain matters if you only learned that assuming too much about other people pretty much makes persuasion impossible. And you might be amazed how often you start to make great sense only to ruin it with assumptions that other people are simply dumber or not paying attention.
I want us to invest in America instead of our current continued trickle down policy that includes this "plan".
Absolutey right, even if your point is diluted in personal silliness later in your post.
In any case, I wonder if you care about persuasion, which, if true, is sad, because you sometimes start to make pretty good arguments that might win more support for policies you like.
Long rant:
I, too, am glad the bailout failed, and I hope it stays dead ... even though everybody who voted against it turned their nose up for the wrong reasons. Matty's right, in that this was the last chance to delay a financial collapse that's been brewing for at least 30 years, perhaps more. The delay would still come, mind you, but this $700 billion might make it wait a year or so before bringing about something even worse.
The mortgage crisis is only one symptom of a problematic addiction to credit which we've amplified with our constant trading and speculation, hoping to build money out of nothing. And this wasn't just the fault of Wall Street fat cats. This was the fault of anybody who ever invested in a 401k, ever held a mutual fund or money market account, ever thought about hopping on e-trade. This is as much the fault of the people who took the loans as the people who gave them. We all had a hand in this with our desire to invent capital from air.
And that's the problem with the bailout. It doesn't do anything to solve this problem and give our markets value beyond what the market randomly says it has. It's not like the New Deal, which used government funds to hire people to produce tangible assets like schools and bridges and dams. It's merely printing money from air in order to prop up assets based on air, with the effect of further increasing the deficit, further driving down the value of the dollar and thus the price of pretty-damned much everything, including already-expensive energy, further discouraging rather than encouraging foreign investment that does bring in real capital, and ultimately leaving us on far shakier ground.
Few will accept this now, but our children will look back on all of us and wonder how we all ... ALL ... could be such morons. As painful as it is, what we need is what we'll inevitably get, which is a complete readjustment of the entire economy. We'll all lose our jobs. We'll all go hungry and wind up in soup lines. We'll all shrink our lives back down to what we can afford now, not what we think we might be able to afford later, assuming the rain falls and the wheat grows. And in the end, we'll be better for it.
And in the end, we'll be better for it.
If all you think will happen will happen--that is, the worst case scenario taken to its logical conclusion--I wonder how much of us will actually be left, as such a calamity--Great Depression, the long-awaited sequel--is likely to produce mob violence and even more war, given the state of our divided country, the world and the global economy. And now, unlike the 1930s, some countries have nukes.
And while I agree that all citizens--especially those who overextended--share blame, I wonder what you would have us do but invest in 401(k)s or similar funds, given that most of us have no other real options for retirement.