Chicagoist: Presidential Debate II: Electric Bugaloo

Di Urrea

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:54:42 -0600

BTW I love the "Electric Bugaloo" headline.

Di Urrea

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:49:46 -0600

@fremo: McCain must have known that Palin was not close to ready to be second in command but he understood the reality. If he had chosen Romney or Huckabee people would have yawned. The pundits would have shrugged their shoulders and continued blowing kisses at Obama. Palin gave him an initial bounce but he has returned to his baseline. The bailout was the final straw for McCain. In the end his VP choice had negligible effect. Since I don't believe the "maverick" McCain or the exceptionally green Obama is a good choice for these times I'll have to find another candidate. Not that my vote matters in a one-sided state.

Di Urrea

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:34:14 -0600

Anyone who remembers the 1992 presidential race knows that Republicans usually don't fair well when the economy's tanking. The economy wasn't tanking in 1992, it was coming off a relatively routine recession. 1992 was kids play compared to the early 80s recession or the one we are in or about to go through. Greenspan forgot recessions are normal parts of economic cycles, cutting rates like a madman early this decade in response to a mild recession. His extreme response led to inordinately low interest rates that helped fuel the mortgage mess we are in today.

grandma

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:41:48 -0600

Matil (is it all right if I call you Matil?) Since you couldn't tell, my tongue was firmly placed in my cheek. The fact that it may have been too high of a chair for McCain, although unfortunate and unfair, is kind of funny.

mikely1

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:13:18 -0600

Social Security is not that tough. We know what the problems are, my friends, and we know what the fixes are. !!! Has McCain heard of the AARP? What exactly are the fixes? I'm really interested in knowing because McCain's generation is getting older and they aren't keen on reducing their benefits or increasing the retirement age. What will he do? Is his solution Dubya's solution? If so, there'd be a lot of totally screwed elderly people right now. What are the fixes? Why is he calling one of the third-rail issues of our lifetime "not that tough"? If it's not that tough, why does his web site avoid the topic altogether? Whether you agree with him or not, Obama's plan can be found in about six seconds on his web site: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/seniors/

fremo

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:59:50 -0600

Ward, a question - and this is open to everyone. Personal loyalties aside, do you feel that McCain is more or less not being supported by his conservative base? Granted the environment is much more hostile now, but I found it interesting that McCain got the nomination in the first place - and I know that Romney is waiting in the wings to challenge Obama in 2012. Had McCain not picked Palin (say he went with Romney instead for VP), would he be even further in the hole? The Republican party right now really looks like the Democratic party in 1980, minus the incumbent president.

Navin

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:31:21 -0600

Obama and McCain both owe their souls to lobbyists.

jennyblur

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:28:57 -0600

@Albany: Those formats were so hotly contested when the campaigns were negotiating that had Brokaw not made more of an effort to stick to the format, it would have been really easy for one candidate to say that he was favoring the other. They agreed to the format. They should've done a better job at sticking to it.

Ward Up

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:20:50 -0600

Notice how no one, not even me, is defending McCain? He is begging, begging for Indepedents to see him as likeable and compassionate. In the process, he has thrown sensible policy out the window. In fact, McCain's harmful bailout proposals are almost as bad as Obama's. When Republicans are disappointed in the Republican nominee, you can be sure that the guy is not going to win. And will somebody please help the old guy find his chair?

dopplerd

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:20:25 -0600

Herstory: I had the same reaction when he said "talk softly." After a google search it turns out that Roosevelt used both.

Albanyparkour

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:14:21 -0600

Navin: You did not spend half your comment proclaiming your love for Israel. Clearly you are an anti-semite.

herstory

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:14:16 -0600

Isn't the saying "WALK softly and carry a big stick", not "TALK softly and carry a big stick"? Jeez, where are this guy's handlers? If someone had asked Sarah Palin to elaborate on, "Say it ain't so, Joe!", would she have been able to do it? I doubt it - these are just stupid sound bytes and very little to do with answers to qustions. I know that with all that's going on, these things shouldn't matter, but they are noticeable CHOREOGRAPHY that doesn't work.

Navin

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:48:11 -0600

Do you think that Russia under Vladimir Putin is an evil empire? Yes or no? Our society has officially reached critical dumbdown. Unbelievable. Why didn't they just say: Russia: Hot or not? I totally want to go with Israel and Georgia. I don't even know why but I really just want to support them......

huffybike

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:31:23 -0600

This was Obama's knockout blow.

matilda

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:28:23 -0600

Dopplerd; You are so right. It is as though McCain has super secret plans to fund SS and find Bin Laden. I wonder when he plans on sharing the details. And why is he apparently keeping the details from Bush? I also love his League of Democracies idea: Nice in theory, I guess--I rather countries like us rule the world rather than give more ground to Russia and China and Iran, etc.--but NATO barely functions in Afghanistan, and the EU--whose members would presumably be part of this League--can't coordinate banking policy, must less military operations. I'm not sure how McCain thinks this League would actually work.

Albanyparkour

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:24:27 -0600

Tom Brokaw needed a slap. Look, just let them bloody talk. I don't care about some question from Cockpunch, Maine about who loves Israel more. I want to see the two men, one of whom will be president come January, having it out. All the structure was screwing with the content. Obama was cool, collected and focused. McCain was doddering, tired and came off petty. Obama's answer on Pakistan was the moment her broke out for me though, he took the bullshit to task.

dopplerd

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:13:16 -0600

The real boner (or should I say "Boehner") answer from McCain was his answer about Social Security reform. McCain did the ol' Bush shoulder bounce snort at Obama's answer to show how much smarter he is and then gives this as his response: Social Security is not that tough. We know what the problems are, my friends, and we know what the fixes are. We've got to sit down together across the table. It's been done before. I saw it done with our -- our wonderful Ronald Reagan [commentor note: nice name drop, McCain mentioned Reagan three times. Apparently he doesn't agree with Palin not to reach into the past] , a conservative from California, and the liberal Democrat Tip O'Neill from Massachusetts. That's what we need more of, and that's what I've done in Washington. Senator Obama has never taken on his party leaders on a single major issue. [Commentor note: I thing the invasion of Iraq is a pretty big issue that Obama defied his party on] I've taken them on. I'm not too popular sometimes with my own party, much less his. In my reading of his response he gives no actual ideas (other that a chat around a table) on how to solve SS solvency. Could it be that the Republican idea of letting the big brains on Wall Street manage Social Security money doesn't sound so well when the market is down over 30% in the last year?

jennyblur

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:10:26 -0600

Why is McCain's plan for wooing the undecideds leaning conservative to suggest a plan "The Treasury will Buy Your Mortgages" that is even more to the left and socialist of anything Obama is suggesting? Weird.

Stephen

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:09:49 -0600

Also...did McCain think he was at a deposition or something? I mean, he had to constantly jot down everything he heard on a notepad like he would forget it a minute later if he didn't take notes on it.He wrote something down even before the first question was asked, during the introductions. Weird. Wonder what he wrote. Sometimes I think McCain's not writing anything, but rather just scribbling to look attentive. Biden too. On the question about ranking health policies, energy policies, and entitlement reform, I interpreted McCain's asking Browkaw to repeat, and then writing down the items, as stalling behavior consistent with unpreparedness. I am sick of McCain's "My friends..." and Obama's "Look..." when prefacing their responses. Both are total turn-offs to me.

matilda

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:00:06 -0600

How many times did you see him walking around the back of the stage or in front of Tom's camera shot. Seriously? That's what you want to talk about as the election draws near? Are we bored with flag pins already? Or is a proper grasp of stage management now as important as foreign policy ideas for our presidential candidates? All it did was make him look old and forgetful. Or, perhaps, that some people tend to take notes.

via chicago

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:49:02 -0600

"Also...did McCain think he was at a deposition or something? I mean, he had to constantly jot down everything he heard on a notepad like he would forget it a minute later if he didn't take notes on it." I noticed that especially when Tom asked them to rank 3 issues in regards to importance. McCain had him repeat the issues and then wrote them down very carefully. And then all he did was get up and say "they're all equally important". WTF? Maybe he was trying to show he's detail oriented or something. It didnt work. All it did was make him look old and forgetful.

Ingrid

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:41:17 -0600

grandma, I heard that McCain was out of sorts here because of the height of the chairs. Obama sat easily while McCain was answering because he's tall...Peepaw McShortypants had to resort to leaning uncomfortably and/or meandering around like a lost puppy while Obama was answering because he's too short to sit on the chairs provided comfortably. (That was a pretty big oversight, in my opinion, of the stage crew...not that I'm sad about it or anythiing...it was definitely an advantage for Obama). Also...did McCain think he was at a deposition or something? I mean, he had to constantly jot down everything he heard on a notepad like he would forget it a minute later if he didn't take notes on it.

Spook

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:36:04 -0600

Grandma! I totally noticed and commented on that! And the last time he actually was talking to some one! I remember liking him when he ran against Bush 8 years ago! Now I don't even know this cat!

grandma

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:31:53 -0600

Did McCain get lost trying to find his chair? How many times did you see him walking around the back of the stage or in front of Tom's camera shot. Can we trust "that one" to find his way around the white house?

Spook

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:19:16 -0600

So this debate I actually draged my bones to the corner public house to watch it on TV as oppossed to listening to it while cleaning. Seeing how old crancky and mean McCain was scared the weebeegeebess out of me! Especially knowning who the No.2 is.

Rob Christopher

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:12:41 -0600

McCain's terrible jokes last night didn't do him any good, that's for sure. The more desperate he gets, the worse it will hurt him in the polls.

matilda

Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:07:59 -0600

Anyone who remembers the 1992 presidential race knows that Republicans usually don't fair well when the economy's tanking. I will see your 1992 and raise you a 1980. In any case, I am amazed that for all the talk about whether Obama would attack Pakistan or merely hit terrorists there, no one seems to know or mention that we've been doing such a thing for months now, at the least, and that it is official Bush policy. I happen to agree with Bush on this--one of the few things I agree with Bush about--but it's curious how reality so rarely intrudes on either campaign. And here's what Obama should say about the surge: Early signs are the surge, combined with smarter counter-insurgency tactics, are making Iraq more stable. While those gains are fragile, I hope they work, as we need to leave something resembling stability in Iraq. That said, the war was still a tremendous waste of time and resources, and its costs in lives, money and political capital are hardly worth the effort. McCain showed a fundamental* lack of judgement when he backed this war, a lack of judgement we can no longer afford. *Was fundamental the word of the day or something last night?