Chicagoist: CTA Announces 2009 Budget, Fare Hikes On The Way

JD84

Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:01:54 -0600

I grew up on the NYC MTA. When I moved to Chicago I was shocked at how incredibly crappy the system was. Waiting FOREVER for trains which stop constantly, tracks always under repair with trains re-routed seemingly hourly and spotty/if any service past, what, 11pm? I don't care if they show me the books or whatever. I'm a normal guy. Give me what I pay for. I'd pay NYC fares for NYC service.

Scooter Libbby

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 22:03:10 -0600

Los Angeles is also a one price system, with a $5 fare for the whole day. Plus, if you ride Metrolink, their minuscule commuter train system, that ticket lets you ride all the buses & subway trains all day for the same commuter train fare.

kgvs72

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 19:35:57 -0600

Yeah let's make $3 and $1 for transfer. Maybe $4 and $1. As long as I have two legs, I will not use it. I went to downtown from the far South side of Chicago on bike. It took me the same time as if I had taken the bus then jumping on the train. Same thing for going to school. On average it takes me between 25 and 45 minutes to go to school. It takes me between 45 and 1 and half hours by bus. CTA I'm not taking it!

bunnybear

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:40:36 -0600

And while we're at it, how about some little signs noting how many minutes until the next train comes? That technology has been in place for well over 20 years in other places. Surely we can figure THAT one out. I'm not sure I need them spending money on putting this technology in. What benefit does it bring? First, it'll always be wrong. Trains are delayed all the time. Slow zones, sick people, jerks sticking their arms/legs in doors at the last second. Second--and more importantly--what am I gonna do once I know how long I have to wait? I'm gonna wait. I've already paid. I'm not gonna see that it says 25 minutes and leave and get a taxi. I'm gonna wait like I always do until the next train actually arrives. If it were some godforsakenley long delay that would require me to change my travel plans, they'll announce it over the PA.

nycrider

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:12:55 -0600

Also the opening paragraph: "The CTA announced it's 2009 budget today..." should use _its_.

nycrider

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:07:50 -0600

Those of here in New York City just love our transit system. Why, we get things like 'train congestion' and 'sick passenger' and 'stalled train ahead' messages almost every day. What's not to like? And for those wondeful things, we pay a whopping $2.00 (base fare - no zones). Granted, we have to wait anywhere from 5 minutes to 10 or 15 minutes for a train if it's not rush hour. And of course, the wonderful experience of waiting at the start of train line to get on the express train only to have to become a local because of one of those above-mentioned notices. Yeah, we love our MTA. /end_sarcasm Seriously, we have an MTA that doesn't have to show its books to anyone so every year they scream "we have no money! We need to jack up the fares and the bridge/tunnel tolls!!" Yes, they also cover the tolls for the bridges and tunnels so that they generate surpluses which then get fed to the railroads (not so much the buses and subways). So, either way, you pay. Of course, one way they do the fare increases is to reduce the bonus you get when you buy a MetroCard and put more than a few bucks on it. We used to get 20% but now it's only 15%. The other way is to increase the price of the unlimited cards. But it seems that the CTA has figured that trick out too. And for the record, I, too, like the no-zone concept. I don't care how old your system is, an extra swipe is just another chance for your card to get mis-read and then what? You're stuck. My metrocard somehow got hosed the other day and even the token booth agent was unable to read it. So now I have to send it in the MTA and get whatever money was left on the card. Who keeps track of that? I have to trust them that they'll be able to figure it out and give me money back. And I had to buy a new card to be able to get on the subway (mind you, I had already paid when I got on the bus to get to the subway station and it's a free transfer to do that, but it cost me another $2 to get on the train).

Stealth

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:05:26 -0600

Remind me how the free rides for seniors is "costing" the CTA $36M? The trains and buses are running whether or not the elderly hop on, right? Or do they mean they're losing that revenue from the fares seniors would have paid? yeah I got confused too, but yeah, it's the money they lose from not having seniors pay. "Costing" might be a confusing choice of words. More like "shortfall".

three

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:04:01 -0600

we should only pay NYC prices when we get NYC transit. bingo.

zolajones

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:49:12 -0600

matty

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:26:38 -0600

we should only pay NYC prices when we get NYC transit.

mikely1

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:18:16 -0600

In Paris, Barcelona and Madrid, just about the entire cities are in one zone. In Madrid, and Barcelona, these central zones cost 1 Euro for a ride. Boston does not have zoned based fares. You must be thinking of their suburban commuter trains, the equivalent of our Metra. And who said we can handle the Olympics? ;)

ophmarketing

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:13:33 -0600

Matilda, re: Paris, I was referring to the RER train system, which is broken out into (I believe) 6 or 7 zones. The Metro is not zoned, to the best of my knowledge.

Stealth

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:12:19 -0600

So I guess Supertransfers are never coming back, then, eh? And as for those old folks: come on granny and gramps, start coughing it up again. I mean... $36 million in just that short amount of time?!?

clark9201

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:09:07 -0600

ophmarketing, the Minneapolis/St. Paul system is brand new (last 5 years or so) and only runs between downtown, the airport and the Mall of America. Not exactly a system I would like to emulate here in Chicago. The BART system in and around San Fransisco is also a swipe out system, but it is more a regional transit system (like METRA) than a local one (like the CTA), so I'm not sure how relevant that example is. Personally, I would love to see the CTA update and switch to a zone system (and expand service and increase maintenance). But consider this, they have just announced a $0.25 - $0.50 fare increase after not increasing fares in the past couple of years and this entire message board (and probably the Trib & S-T boards) is filled with complaints. I'm sure the same thing will occur face-to-face at the public hearings. So why does anyone think that the CTA would ever consider proposing a plan to spend many millions of dollars to update the system when they can't raise fares a quarter without incurring the wrath of their customers?

DaviCon1

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:01:43 -0600

I realize I'm probably in the minority here, but frankly I don't think these rate increases are so bad. I still feel like I get a bargain compared to driving a car in the city or taking cabs. There's a pretty nice fare history (based on bus fares only, not the complicated history of rail fares) at the bottom of the page at http://www.chicagobus.org/history. Seems to me the fare increases of the last 20 years have brought us from "sweet deal" to merely "reasonable fares." And I can't stand the zone based fares and exit swipes of the DC Metro system. Drives me crazy. I much prefer our single-price system, thank you very much.

ophmarketing

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:01:28 -0600

sfrazer_chicago, you're right about Boston. I misspoke there. I was thinking of the rail system, which I believe IS zoned. London has always had zones (at least in modern history), but they only implemented exit swiping sometime in the 1990s (it wasn't in effect when I went to school there in the mid-80s, but it was when I was there on my honeymoon in the mid-90s)--up until that point, it was more or less run on the honor system, if you can believe it. From my experiences with the exit barriers in the years since, it works fairly smoothly, even in the older stations.

matilda

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:55:47 -0600

Ophmarketing: I've ridden the Paris Metro more than a dozen times over the past few years, and never encountered fare-based pricing, at least not like they have in DC. Granted, I was staying mostly within the city center, and not taking any RER trains, but what I am missing? Perhaps because I used passes and not single ride tickets? Barcelona, too: Didn't encounter that, but I haven't been there in a long time. So...we think we can handle an OLYMPICS here, but we can't retrofit our train stations to accommodate exit swipes? Please. Well, for one thing, you are talking about expensive upgrades to a very old system, and a new way of thinking about Chicago's mass transit. Capital dollars are in short supply, and the current economic crisis will not help. In some ways, landing and preparing for the Olympics might be a bit simpler.

aasantana

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:50:43 -0600

Caracas, Venezuela has a metro system inaugurated in the 80s. Also a swipe out. http://www.metrodecaracas.com.ve/

ophmarketing

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:49:58 -0600

So...we think we can handle an OLYMPICS here, but we can't retrofit our train stations to accommodate exit swipes? Please. And maybe not the ENTIRE world, but at least (from what I know) DC, London, Paris, Barcelona, Boston, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Buffalo... Certainly enough variety in terms of age, population density, and usage to cover any arguments against exploring it for implementation in Chicago. And while we're at it, how about some little signs noting how many minutes until the next train comes? That technology has been in place for well over 20 years in other places. Surely we can figure THAT one out.

Navin

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:47:50 -0600

Of course, "soaking the rich" is likely to be the new theme in Washington, so we better get adjusted to it now.... Let's hope so. You know, what comes around.... But rest assured, mss2400 as long as Democrats or Republicans are in charge not much will change. The needs of the wealthy will continue to be placed above all others.

kaylee

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:47:27 -0600

(my bad with the false info -- obviously I can't mentally count backwards in time) I forgot to mention that I'm in Rogers Park and use the Chicago Card. Surely they don't think I'm in an "affluent" area. Unless we did a complete overhaul on the entire transit system, there's no way we could do zones. On the whole, the CTA isn't too shabby on the prices. If only they'd introduce more credit card machines and maybe listen to the engineers who are screaming about the seatless cars being unsafe...

mikely1

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:41:36 -0600

I used to live in D.C., and I see they're still calling their non-rush fares "reduced" fares. The "regular" (rush hour) fare used to be in effect from 4:00-6:00 p.m. but I see they've broadened it from 3:00-7:00 p.m. http://www.wmata.com/riding/hours_fares.cfm#Metrorail_Fares

Mary_Sunshine

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:39:42 -0600

I think for not having a n increase in 2 years, that's not bad. THink of how other things have gone up since then. Yeah, we know part of this is free rides, but whatever. Such is life.

matilda

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:38:08 -0600

Berlin kind of, sort of has it--fare based pricing--but probably not in a way that oprah sees it.

sfrazer_chicago

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:33:26 -0600

I think the London Tube is also a swipe out system, but I've never ridden it. Boston and NYC are single price rides. DC is a swipe out system, and rush hours suck (even more) because of it. DC also increases fares during rush hours. The 10% bonus loss irks me a bit, since I always figured that made up a bit for the whole "let them hold my money for me" thing. Not that I'm going to get anything over 0.2% APR for my $20 anywhere else.

mikely1

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:27:47 -0600

ophmarketing, zones were addressed the last time you asked that question. Chicago's system is a hundred years old. The stations are not set up for people to be able to efficiently swipe out ... imagine the hundreds of people at Belmont trying to swipe out in the evening, through six turnstyles. Hell, even my station, Thorndale, would be a mess in the morning as dozens of commuters are trying to enter while the crowd of Senn High School students exits. ophmarketing, please name "pretty much every other metropolitan rail system in the freakin' world" because I can only think of D.C.'s Metro, which was built in the 70s.

matilda

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:26:50 -0600

Its been done to Boston's Mass Transit cards....and ours are VERY similar :) It's also been done in London with its Oyster card, at least according to some Dutch scientists. Both cards use Mifare chip technology. I am not sure if Chicago uses the same tech--does anyone know? Transit agency officials claim their systems can easily spot cloned cards. Of course, those same officials sought injunctions against publication of the research in both cases, so one wonders. That said, I think transit agencies have more to fear from turnstile jumpers and bus drivers who don't care than some high-tech criminal gangs trying to get free rides. There is more money in credit card and bank account fraud than prepaid transit cards, after all. The fare increase is modest and reasonable.

mss2400

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:24:52 -0600

That's a pretty big increase for those of us that use the Chicago Card....I don't like the rationale that because we live in zip codes that are more affluent, we should pay a disproportionate share of the fare increases. Of course, "soaking the rich" is likely to be the new theme in Washington, so we better get adjusted to it now....

ophmarketing

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:13:22 -0600

Why don't they try putting some ZONES in the damned system? You know, like pretty much every other metropolitan rail system in the freakin' world? Why should it cost the same to go from Ashland to State/Lake as it does to go from Adams/Wabash to Kimball? That's ridiculous. Even Metra figured this one out.

Slaphappy

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:05:51 -0600

Why don't they just raise the price of a transfer? Don't most "transfers" end up being "your return trip because you got your errand done quickly"?

jmagic

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:04:49 -0600

it's the CTA, it's Chicago, it's Illinois - it's fucked up beyond all recognition. man, i love this fucking place.

more_human

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:00:53 -0600

Ok hackers, lets get started on the RFID Hacking. Its been done to Boston's Mass Transit cards....and ours are VERY similar :) Here's the "banned" presentation from the M.I.T. Students http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N30/subway/Defcon_Presentation.pdf Let's see who can get it working :D

three

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:59:02 -0600

so basically there's zero benefit to using chicago card & chicago card plus. good job, cta. where did you come up with that idea?

kaylee

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:59:00 -0600

Eh, at least I'll still feel good about using the Chicago Card for environmental reasons (even if it's giving me a wrist problem due to all the "failed to read" crap). And, Mary, I'm pretty sure it was last November.

Marcus Gilmer

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:58:53 -0600

Okay, 2006, when cash fares were upped to $2 from $1.75

Marcus Gilmer

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:57:59 -0600

Either 2005 or 2006. I'll keep looking.

Mary_Sunshine

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:55:29 -0600

Maybe I'm not reading carefully, but I can't find where anyone has written when the last fare increase was...anyone know?