Chicagoist: Sameere's Shooter Accused Of Previously Threatening Him

Marcus Gilmer

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:17:49 -0600

as am i.

Stealth

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:16:42 -0600

Oh, and a lot of good, reasonably stated points on this thread. I'm going to have to bronze my screen...

Stealth

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:15:35 -0600

p.s now may I go back to insulting people!?! You already did. Signed, Mayor Daley and cronies.

Kaonashi

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:17:06 -0600

I mean part of the problem is that babies are screwed over before they are even walking. Then we really fund and supervise head start properly and do the same thing with the public schools. I’m talking about art music, gym, classes, etc just like the good schools and we pay for the best teachers, counselors, social workers, principals etc. Also small classes instead of 40 students to one teacher. And we train and bring in the best teachers. The more challenged the school population the more we pay the teachers. Oh and we reform DCFS. We build child centered communities instead of allowing “foster parents” to rent out spaces for kids to supplement their meager substandard incomes. This. A lot of these kids get the message at an early age that they aren't shit and aren't ever going to be shit so why bother? The fortunate ones have parents, grandparents and other family support who combat these hateful assumptions and instill positive messages and self-esteem. The less fortunate end up not giving a damn about anyone or anything around them...because they don't care about themselves, and that's the major difference between a kid like Sameere and the asshole who shot him. I know teachers who go into their own pockets to get things for their classrooms that other school districts take for granted. They are forced to make do with the little they have...and are still expected to have their class pass the standardized tests despite not having the "standard" teaching tools available elsewhere! Half of the teachers teaching in the inner-cities and rural areas aren't even accredited. What's up with that? Then, you have foster parents out there who don't bother to show up on report-card day, refuse to come to parent-teacher conferences etc but can show up to collect a check...and their caseworkers LET THEM. Even worse, they completely ignore what the children have to say regarding the foster parents lack of caring. Again...what's up with that? I think the single most important thing that we need to teach our children is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, and there's a serious lack of that everywhere, not just in the poorer communities. There are literally thousands of Sameeres in the inner-city; kids who struggle to do the right thing, who aren't cutting classes and who are working their asses off. And seven times out of 10, the only time we hear about "those kids" is when something tragic like this happens. Nor is blaming the parents a clear-cut solution because there's lot of parents out there who do try to teach their children right from wrong and how to do the right thing...and the kids still do the opposite. Something needs to be done, because kids shouldn't be getting shot for trying to do the right thing. :(

Spook

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:08:16 -0600

p.s now may I go back to insulting people!?!

Spook

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:06:26 -0600

Matilda, to answer your question as best as I cyberly can, nationally there are some amazing progressive intensive youth programs, but not nearly enough for systematic change. These programs range from progressive charter schools (as opposed to being tools for gentrification), after school programs with carefully designed and tested academic and social enrichment focuses that include, anti gender violence and empowerment, community leadership, etc. Yea, some folks are doing some really really amazing programs both in and out of the classroom. The problem is that it’s cheaper and “more popular” to fund “Rickey Hendon” type programs that just “warehouses” kids while creating jobs for corrupt and incompetent political supporters, who can’t find other employment. Most youth programs in the inner city fall into this category. Kids are just being used, again. And unconsciously kids know it and are angry about it with out knowing why they are angry. Hence they shot each other over nothing. Mean while the progressive programs that are able to change social paradigms, barely get funded because they threaten the political status qou. Politicians( white, Black and hispanic, ( Daley on down) including major philanthropic organizations don’t want real paradigm changes because at best these leaders would be forced to get real jobs and at worse( for them )the next generation would realize that they’re being screwed. Then instead of shooting each other over gym shoes,etc, they would turn that anger on b.s. elected officials and pimping community leaders. Trust me, the hardest kids are often the kids easiest to turn around, with proper support because they’re really looking to rebel in a meaningful way, they want to understand why them and why their community? But no one gives them this opportunity, not their church going mothers, teachers, churches, etc. Now to your question about parents. One of the most “well kept” secretes is that children will thrive in spite of rotten parents/house holds, if have supportive schools with intensive programs. Even NPR reported on this last year. But again don’t forget how much money the prison industrial complex brings in politically, this includes crappy schools. So it’s not so much about the parents, it’s about the kids first and foremost. Oh and People like Ward Up. What do you know about youth programming and education that allows you to speak with such insight on what works and what doesn’t? I’m bad at math so I basically keep my mouth shut on math related subjects. Maybe you should consider that? Or consider actually learning about progressive educational and social programs for youths before you comment on what doesn’t work?

fed up

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:06:36 -0600

Spook, I like all of your suggestions making the parent responsible for their childs well being as a requirement for goverment benifits is a great idea. p.s. I feel the death penalty is over prescribed for many crimes it should be a penalty of last resort and not applied to Juv's.

sherlaura

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:04:36 -0600

I'll repeat what I said when this story was first posted on Chicagoist. Teenager's brains are not yet fully developed- especially the areas that control planning and inhibiting poor choices. This is obviously not an excuse for murder, but then we really shouldn't be charging this kid as if he's an adult. Also... right on, Spook! My goal for my master's program is to figure out how to do some of the things you described. I have a long road ahead of me.

Stealth

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:52:11 -0600

Spook: gotcha. "Four Balls..."... I like that. Like I said, I agree with you that's it seems pretty obscene that they call pull billions out of their ass that fast to "save" (i.e. delay until they screw up again) the economy and guys like Rev. Meeks (whatever you may think of his tactics) feel they have to disrupt a baseball game to get some attention. i will refrain from withdrawing from society for another week or so :) But I have my propane tanks and solar stove at the ready...

matilda

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:20:20 -0600

Spook: Didn't see your response. Good ideas. What about this: Do you think it's better to invest in activities related to job creation--that is, education, vocational schools, tax breaks/incentives for companies willing to employ poor people or locate in poor areas--or what you proposed? Serious question. Curious about your thoughts. On your idea about brining in the best teachers, do you support merit pay to do so, or some other method? I also think you need more money for sex education and parenting classes so that more people unprepared to be parents do not become parents.

matilda

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:12:09 -0600

Spook: I agree in general with you, but what would you spend the money on, for starters? How much have the feds, and states, dumped into the inner cities since the mid 1960s? How would you get parents involved? Would you spend any on cops? What would you do with that money to prevent it from going to waste? Your idea is well-meaning, and I certainly agree about your priorities, but what about the details? Please refrain from insults, as at least a couple of us here are interested in your idea. Perhaps you can start at least some people thinking in new ways about this problem.

Spook

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:11:31 -0600

Stealth I feel you, as I want this kid up under the bus. But I also want to go at its root causes. So lets say we take 700 billion and make sure all parents have adequate prenatal health care. Make sure they don't leave the hospital with out it. Can't pick up government benifits or apply for section 8 with out their child being checked. I mean part of the problem is that babies are screwed over before they are even walking. Then we really fund and supervise head start properly and do the same thing with the public schools. I’m talking about art music, gym, classes, etc just like the good schools and we pay for the best teachers, counselors, social workers, principals etc. Also small classes instead of 40 students to one teacher. And we train and bring in the best teachers. The more challenged the school population the more we pay the teachers. Oh and we reform DCFS. We build child centered communities instead of allowing “foster parents” to rent out spaces for kids to supplement their meager substandard incomes. And then, then if a kid screws up and does some thing like this, AFTER we have giving them a REAL Chance to succeed. Death penalty time. Let Fed and Ward pull the switch, because honestly I couldn't do it personally :-) Lets call it "four balls and you're on base" instead of "three strikes and you're out". If they can't get passed first base, then let them hang.

Pakennedy

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:02:17 -0600

death qualified.

UTV

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:56:41 -0600

We see more violent crime during a down economy, so I think letting things go (further) to shit wouldn't help either.

fed up

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:55:56 -0600

Spook bank one bought first chicago. Dimon was the CEO of Bank One which merged with JP Morgan Chase where Dimon eventually became CEO. Every merger has layoffs. But back to your point yes we need a Marshall plan or a bailout or whatever you want to call it for many of our inner citys, schools are failing to educate, jobs are not availabele and the future looks bleak so gang life and a drug culture fill the void. But no matter how much money we throw at these problems we cant fix single mother households where personel responsibility is the Jessie Jackson blame everyone else model. We cant force parents to read to and care for their children. So while much more should and could be done by the state and federal govt's. It wont matter until parents and communitties take responsibility for themselves and their out of control youth.

Stealth

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:52:01 -0600

Spook, I understand where you're coming from and yes, it seems obscene to see money being pulled out of a hat in seconds to give to banks that created their own demise while there definately are some things that money could do to stop a lot of the killing. That being said, at what point do people become responsible for their own actions? Even the poorest, most disadvantaged person knows "right" from "wrong", 'else there would be guys shooting people in broad daylight and then just standing there and hanging out. Does this 15 year old have a lifetime "it was society that done it" pass? Does every kid in the inner city get to use this built-in excuse? Who gets to use it and who doesn't? What if you're a kid who has a decent home in the inner city (they do exist), two parents who work to put food on the table and you go out, join a gang and shoot someone? Do you get to blame society? Like I said, I'm reaching the breaking point on this stuff and the whole "society failed them" excuse. This shit's outta hand and it has to be stopped somehow. and right now, I'm not in favor of throwing money at it.

lamgray

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:24:17 -0600

Wow, this one was difficult to read and understand. Took some re-reading to try to understand who did what.

Von Erich

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:16:38 -0600

The home confinement part is what gets me. He was supposed to stay at home for a previous charge of pointing a gun at someone. If that kid has the balls to point a gun, what makes anyone think he'll stay home. I've sat in on more than my share of cases at the juvenile detention center, and the sentencing handed down are a joke. 11 year old heroin runners getting 30 days probation for having thousands of dollars of shit on them, 15 days probation for smashing car windows. Punishments do not fit crimes. And society did not fail this kid, his parents did. And he failed as a kid. Stop putting blame in other people's laps. F'n piece of shit.

Stealth

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:07:30 -0600

What a waste, all around. I now that sounds like hollow sentiment, but what the f*ck was the point of all this? You won't join the gang, so now I'll kill you? Damn, how does someone 15 not only just shoot somebody for virtually no reason but plan it out, inform them of the intention in a three-way phone conversation and then do it? How the hell does a 15 year old get so cold? And now he's going to be tried as an adult, go to prison and for what? Don't they event think past the moment? That even if he did get away with it, he was just going to live his life and party and do whatever he wanted and just push the fact that he shot and killed a kid in the back of his mind? Ah, nevermind...

Spook

Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:05:33 -0600

I have an idea. This morning, we gave certain major Banks another 250 billion (with no congressional approval) ontop of the 700 billion, which brings the total to 2.25 trillion all told. This includes money to Jamie Dimon's JP Morgan. You kids remember Mr. Dimon don't you? He was 1st Chicago Bank's CEO before he closed its doors and high tailed it to NY giving over 300 Chicago employees 30 days pink slips right before Christmas, which is when Mr. Dimon notified our Gov. and Mayor. So as we have all this money to prop up these banks, to make them and their investors feel "secure" and "good" about the economy, which clearly they still don't. What about a bail out package for inner city kids? I mean how many stories like this are we gonna have to read before we say enough? And I got news for you, this sh*t is nation wide!