Chicagoist: Voter Registration Controversy Spills To Lake County

Navin

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:02:27 -0600

*then*

Navin

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:24:44 -0600

Exactly Jenny, I often ask Republicans: "If you're so confident in your political belief system than why are you always complaining when anybody makes efforts to make voting easier *for everyone* ?" ......crickets chirp. Mention making a holiday for election day or having voting take place on the weekends (as they should) and see the predictable replies. So much for championing "democracy". Oh, and I scooped ya on the Florida story ;)

Albanyparkour

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:15:02 -0600

The largest voter crises in this country in the past two presidential elections has been undertaken by Republicans in Florida and Ohio "purging" voter rolls and shorting democratic-heavy districts of personnel, equipment and even ballots. The wails and moans over acorn are a bit like someone stealing your television complaining because you've double parked.

jennyblur

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:14:09 -0600

@ (who I will refer to as the "good") Chris Exactly. Thank you. @Navin: Not only have the Republicans actually make efforts to actually SUPPRESS the vote by fighting tooth and nail against anything that would make it easier to vote (such as registering at the DMV, longer voting hours etc). Anyone see how pissed the GOP is at Gov. Crist for extending early voting in FL. They are afraid too many people will get to the polls and swing the states to the Dems. It's typical.

Slaphappy

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:13:53 -0600

Reasonable people know that voter registration drives are big pissing matches between the major parties anyway. "Look, we registered 1.1 million new voters!" "Oh yeah? Well, we registered 1.7 million new voters, so there!" The true crime doesn't happen until one of those bogus registrants actually tries to vote. That's not to say it isn't important, but it's not that important. Compare that to purposefully overzealous voter purges and deliberate misinformation ("the election for Democrats is on Wednesday" kind of stuff) that is almost always perpetrated by a certain party that shall not be named. But what do I know?

Chris123

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:25:44 -0600

"Ridiculous. The Republican fraud complaints are an effort to keep NON-EXISTENT people from voting and to keep dishonest people from voting TWICE." So who exactly is going to show up to the polling place and try to claim the identity of Mickey Mouse? Yes this voter registration fraud is a problem. But is it going to cause the downfall of our elections? No because people aren't really trying to register to vote twice, people that were registering people were doing a half ass job. They got lazy and made up names in order to get paid. Flag them, throw them out and lets focus on making sure real people aren't stopped from voting on election day.

matilda

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:23:46 -0600

The Republican fraud complaints are an effort to keep NON-EXISTENT people from voting and to keep dishonest people from voting TWICE. And Old Man Daley never used zombie voters, either. You don't really believe what you wrote, do you? I mean, this is a party with millions of members and fans who really believe that about half of the country is made up of actual traitors and perhaps Satanists as well.

Ingrid

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:21:23 -0600

Voter fraud is a very rare occurrence.

Navin

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:20:02 -0600

*they're*

Navin

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:19:50 -0600

And btw, there are racist democrats all over this country, mind blowing, I know. Not to me, there those "undecided" or former Hilary voters for McCain that we've heard so much about. Speaking of Republicans *not* wanting people to vote. Florida's governor just extended voting hours due to expected high turnout so working people could vote before and after work and so the polls wouldn't be overwhelmed. Republicans up in arms LOL!

Ward Up

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:10:35 -0600

In response to an above comment that "Republican's fraud complaints are an effort to keep people from voting." Ridiculous. The Republican fraud complaints are an effort to keep NON-EXISTENT people from voting and to keep dishonest people from voting TWICE. If you are a legitimate voter, you have nothing to fear from the Republicans' protests of pro-Obama vote fraud.

matilda

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:09:54 -0600

Never said racism was only in the South, Matty. Show me where I did. I was merely talking about the values, including those that are racist, that linger from the Southern planting class. If that phrase is alien to you, I wonder how much you really do know about history. And btw, there are racist democrats all over this country, mind blowing, I know. Never argued to the contrary, Matty. Nice flamebaiting. Don't even know what that is. Sounds dangerously kinky.

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:56:18 -0600

A tacit seperate but equal policy existed in the north for a lot longer than that. Racists did not only exist in the south, matilda, and they have nothing to do with this "planting class" you speak of. And btw, there are racist democrats all over this country, mind blowing, I know. I'm going to get some work done now. Nice flamebaiting.

Navin

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:54:20 -0600

Chris, It's simple, Republican's fraud complaints are an effort to keep people from voting. Any past Democrat's complaints have mostly been over making sure people's votes have actually been counted. Basically Republicans rely on the electoral college and massive amounts of apathetic (dare I say ignorant?) people who are basically moderates and would vote Democratic if they'd actually get registered and more importantly actually make it to the polls on election day. As for your general tone, it's hard to take you too seriously considering all the childish personal attacks you included in your post.

matilda

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:51:44 -0600

Well, Matty, those are good points, but if we have made sure to keep the Southern planting class out of power--they returned to power almost immediately--and done more to help blacks actually get the land they worked as slaves for so long, perhaps things would have changed for the better. No, not utopia, just better. It was the value of Southern planting class that led to Jim Crow and the next 100 years of sub-citizenship for blacks, a situation cynically exploited not only by the old-style Dems, but also the new-style GOP, starting in earnest in the early 1960s. ...cringed at your use of this tragic time in US history to make a political point regarding republicans today. A real historian would see that history always informs and sheds light on current politics and society, and therefore would not cringe.

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:43:33 -0600

As I recall Chicago is as racist if not more so than the south. Blaming the antebellum south for the problems of today is a stretch at best. Also Sherman's march was a military strategy to devatstate the south. Maybe if Sherman hadn't completely ruined it economically it wouldnt' be as backward as it is today. Anyway, yes, completely off topic but the historian in me cringed at your use of this tragic time in US history to make a political point regarding republicans today.

matilda

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:39:26 -0600

History? Look at the city government make-up of every city you mention, and tell me that unchallenged power with the kind of numbers you see in said cities isnt very powerful. Chris: That is not the point. I merely said the Dem city machines of today are weak compared to the Dem city machines of the 20th Century (especially the middle part, in the 10-15 years after the New Deal). Did you miss that? I thought I was clear. In any case, I think the GOP has had a more organized political machine (machines?) than the Dems for at least 30 years, which is why, in my view, the GOP has had better voter-surpression efforts than the Dems lately. I mean about whatever the hell you were talking about with regard to Sherman's march on the sea. Non-sequiter much? Actually, Matty, it had to do with with how the values of the Southern planting class continue to infect our society, and how we missed our chance to stomp out those values more than we did in 1864-65. Hardly a non-sequiter, but clearly off topic, for which I apologize.

Chris_60614

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:31:22 -0600

Matilda, History? Look at the city government make-up of every city you mention, and tell me that unchallenged power with the kind of numbers you see in said cities isnt very powerful.

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:29:24 -0600

"Is it that dialectical? It is to twits like Jenny. My point is not that there is absolutely no truth to Jenny's argument, but that her obvious disregard for the other side of the story, and the utter lack of any kind of critical analysis regarding to people that spoon feed her information....make Paris Hilton look like Stephen Hawking." Q.E.D

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:27:49 -0600

I mean about whatever the hell you were talking about with regard to Sherman's march on the sea. Non-sequiter much?

Chris_60614

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:26:45 -0600

Well Hello Navin, I agree this will be a close election. So you really think these suits are an illusion of orchestrated fraud or impropriety on the Democrats part? Is it that black and white? Good guys and bad. Is it inconceivable that some Democrats might be up to no-good? Is it that dialectical? It is to twits like Jenny. My point is not that there is absolutely no truth to Jenny's argument, but that her obvious disregard for the other side of the story, and the utter lack of any kind of critical analysis regarding to people that spoon feed her information....make Paris Hilton look like Stephen Hawking. I might even agree with Jenny (her opinions most likely came from someone with education), her lack of any objectivity is sickening.

matilda

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:19:57 -0600

Matty: Great insight. Can we have some more?

matilda

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:13:29 -0600

Chris: Compared to what the machines in Chicago, New York City, Detroit, Philly, et al used to be, the current machines are much weaker. A big part of the reason is the relative lack of federal money from New Deal and Great Society programs, money the Dems used to buy and keep support though jobs and other programs. Another big reason is the loss of Dem coalitions in place since the 1930s--or even earlier--and the rise of GOP-friendly blocs that are centered in the suburbs and beyond. As well, the loss of population to the cities, and the growth of populations in the suburbs and exurbs, has help weaken the 20th-Century Dem city machines. Don't believe me? Read some history. Christ.

Navin

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:13:25 -0600

matilda: shut. up. thanks. Wow, excellent rebuttal Matty! Can I join your club, where do I sign up!

Navin

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:12:30 -0600

This is embarrassing. Does anybody question their Obama vote simply b/c he is the preferred candidate of Celebs, and the 18-21 year old crowd? Can there be a more unserious bunch? Hi Chris, I'm not voting for Obama and I think that Jenny's comments are basically on point. Expect to see endless suits like this all as an effort to create the illusion of orchestrated fraud or impropriety on the Democrats part. This will be a close election (i don't care what the polls say) and Republicans are like a giant leech sucking away on the corpse of political power, they aren't going to be pulled away easily.

Chris_60614

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:02:09 -0600

Matilda, "their big-city political machines of the 20th century lost much of their power?????" Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, Si se puede.

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:59:50 -0600

matilda: shut. up. thanks.

matilda

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:53:16 -0600

Now you're just trolling. NEXT! No, I believe it. Sherman didn't do enough. The freed slaves should have been given, outright, all the lands they had worked, too. To hell with the Southern planter class--the values of which continue to infect our society, though such values have been dressed up with working-class populism. In any case, that's too off topic, so I will stop with this line of thought. From all evidence I've seen, including some with my own eyes, I think a plausible case can be made the GOP over the last 20 years has engaged in voter-supression efforts that have been far more enthusiastic than anything the Dems have done. The Dems have been relative weaklings since their big-city political machines of the 20th century lost much of their power.

Ward Up

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:50:06 -0600

Oh, I see. The GOP is "...suppressing poor voters" when they are stopping fraudsters from stuffing the ballot box.

Chris_60614

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:41:37 -0600

Read your arguments? they may be hyperbolic? Really the cant stand on their own merit? have to spice em up? What Junior High did you crawl out of? de facto racism? one NYT article? thats your "final answer" (to use terms you might understand).

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:38:19 -0600

"Of course, I am one who thinks Sherman did not start enough fires some 140 years ago. " Now you're just trolling. NEXT!

matilda

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:36:18 -0600

Yes matilda, let's kick out everyone who has a different opinion than you. Sounds democratic to me! Uh, no. Let's just invite those people who really, really believe that the rest of us are sinning, unpatriotic commies to form their own flipping country. Clearly, the rest of us lack the skills to push these moles back into the holes from whence they came, so why not call it a day, then?. They apparently think most of the country is worthless, so let them form their own. I am only half-joking. Of course, I am one who thinks Sherman did not start enough fires some 140 years ago.

jennyblur

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:35:55 -0600

Did ANYONE read the NYT article I posted? Seriously. The GOP has done more to suppress poor voters than the dems have historically (see the failed efforts to block the Motor-Voter Act of 1992). And that is de facto racism. And Read my arguments CHRIS. They may be hyperbolic, but they aren't stupid. And neither am I. Thanks!

Chris_60614

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:31:16 -0600

Well there you go Jenny....its a "zero-sum game"...win at all cost. And you would argue AGAINST verifying voter registrations? This is embarrassing. Does anybody question their Obama vote simply b/c he is the preferred candidate of Celebs, and the 18-21 year old crowd? Can there be a more unserious bunch? Jenny is a perfect ambassador of the later group that will be back to reality tv once the election is over. And I dont want to hear it about 'mostly poor and black voters who laregly lean liberal'. Any voting block that votes in at or above 95% lock-step is not a voting block but a robotic instrument.

jimbo

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:31:10 -0600

This comes down to race, Jenny? Seriously?

jennyblur

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:30:47 -0600

I meant the organziation, not the workers. They can't help everyone who goes rogue.

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:29:13 -0600

"The "fraud" you are talking about from the Democrats means making a good faith effort to register as many people as possible. " This apparently includes goldfish.

jennyblur

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:26:05 -0600

There is a difference between voter registration fraid and voter fraud. One is easy and has no effect on elections. One is way more difficult and has rarely been proven. Which do you think is which? ACORN et all are to conservatives what Diebold is to liberals. The potential for abuse is there, but no one has ever proven anything. It is a bunch of hyperventilating to control the election. Additionally: The "fraud" you are talking about from the Democrats means making a good faith effort to register as many people as possible. The GOP efforts are racist and exclusionary.

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:24:55 -0600

"The GOP can take "real America" and move the real patriots to Utah and Wyoming and Alaska. They can even have Alaska's oil revenue if that will get them out, though the US Navy still gets Arctic water rights. We get Texas: After all, the US fought for that state twice, so I think it is still ours." Yes matilda, let's kick out everyone who has a different opinion than you. Sounds democratic to me!

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:23:26 -0600

"These tactics are designed to win elections in the most unfair way possible. " Well then both parties are as guilty as one another. It is naive to believe otherwise.

jennyblur

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:18:51 -0600

Matty: FL wasn;t better investigated because it was a poltical process at the state level governed by GOP officials. If it had beem "better investigated" then the result of a national election would have been altered. I understand that like hyperbole is annoying, but so is the naive belief that everything can be fair if we "just work together". Sorry. Politics is zero sum, winners/losers. These tactics are designed to win elections in the most unfair way possible.

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:17:41 -0600

jenny: If the registrations are complete and legitimate they should have nothing to worry about.

jennyblur

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:14:39 -0600

@Matty: The GOP isn't "flagging the fradulent forms" they are suing a nonprofit whose purpose is to register mostly poor and black voters who laregly lean liberal. It is a shrewd attempt to scare and intidate a small non-profit organization. The GOP has been doing this forever. And the Black Community is weirdly paranoid and suspicious about "The Man" trying to steal their vote. From the NYT today: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/29/us/politics/29anxiety.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin It is so sad the inherent distrust that is happening on "The Streets" as a result of these disgusting tactics that are designed to keep poor and minority voters away from the polls.

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:12:26 -0600

I am embarrassed to be a Democrat reading the hyperbolic comments spewed on this site. These allegations should be taken seriously. Voter fraud is not a partisan issue and it affects everyone equally. Florida should have been better investigated and things like this should be nipped in the bud early on. Everyone wins with a fair election.

matty

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:07:06 -0600

"I love how the Republicans talk on and on about "Real America" and then do everything in their power, both legally and legislatively to subvert the democratic process." How is flagging phony registration forms "subverting the democtratic process"???

matilda

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:05:12 -0600

The GOP can take "real America" and move the real patriots to Utah and Wyoming and Alaska. They can even have Alaska's oil revenue if that will get them out, though the US Navy still gets Arctic water rights. We get Texas: After all, the US fought for that state twice, so I think it is still ours.

ophmarketing

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:59:42 -0600

But Jenny, haven't you figured it out yet? Subverting the democratic process IS the real America!

jennyblur

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:57:52 -0600

I love how the Republicans talk on and on about "Real America" and then do everything in their power, both legally and legislatively to subvert the democratic process.

ophmarketing

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:57:49 -0600

Surely, the Illinois and Lake County Republican Party is aware that ALL voter registration forms must, by Federal law, be submitted, even if they contain incorrect information. Groups conducting the drives cannot pull forms, even if they know they're wrong. I'm guessing that CA/I, just like ACORN, flagged the questionable forms, so they could be pulled at the appropriate level. And in any event, the fake people won't be able to vote, regardless of what's on the form. More blustering from the GOP. How shocking.