Chicagoist: Lawsuit Filed In Fox River Drownings

bobnweave

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:14:03 -0600

I don't disagree that you sometimes have to resort to litigation to get answers out of reluctant parties. However, the statute of limitations on any actions from this incident are far off. For a lawsuit to be a FIRST act seems like a cold, calculated grab for cash, not a bid for information. Not even sure they have buried these kids yet! Sure we all feel bad for what happened. But c'mon!

Tower18

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:06:58 -0600

Furthermore, if one can't swim, as was proposed, why does one get in a boat on a river at night in November? What was the exit strategy? Where was this little rafting trip going to end? How were you going to get back where you started?

Tower18

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:06:02 -0600

I was holding this back initially out of respect for the dead, but now that this lawsuit has come out, I have to say it: At what point, when water is coming in through holes in the bottom of your boat, do you decide that you better not be in this boat? It should have been fairly clear the minute you put it in the water and your feet were underwater. And that would be the time to get out. It's the Fox River, not Lake Michigan during a gale. If you notice the boat is taking on water through holes, it would happen fast, and you could WALK back to shore. I wonder if illegal substances came into play here.

Von Erich

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:40:11 -0600

jennaNL, According to a statement yesterday by one of the moms, they "shouldn't have been allowed to sneak out". That was the answer one parent had. Again and again, the blame and fault are shifted. Also, it was stated that there were signs all over the property stating for people to stay away from the water. I guess when you sneak out at 1am, it's hard to read these signs in the dark. The signs might have also used big words like STAY and AWAY. To me, it is not worth it to drag a boat the length of a football field for a little enjoyment, in the dark, in the cold. And your point about swimming and swim lessons is true. But there is no requirement to learn how to swim. There are pools all over the city, and swim lessons available at every park, and I'm not sure about public schools, but it is a required part of Phys. Ed. at private schools (with pools). Of course, something could go wrong there when some kids dick around and a lawsuit is filed and that program gets shut down. The true lesson people seem to avoid even though it hits them in the face is learning responsibility and acceptance of consequences for your own actions. The absence of a father, the Wonder Bread burger, the lack of barbwire, klieg lights, and an SS officer preventing them from the water does not excuse their behavior.

jmagic

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:27:30 -0600

It's called thinning the gene pool ... this kid's mother is an opportunist trying to cash in.

jennaNL

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:33:44 -0600

I don't have any stats on this, but many kids who live in cities like chicago, don't get enough training on water safety. I grew up near the ocean, where you could swim year-round, and we had less drowning deaths than a place like Washington State, where kids only get near the water a few months out of the year. My point is, if the camp didn't give the kids any rules about swimming at night in the river, or any restrictions on swimming period, they might be found at fault. But probably not. As a former counselor, I was in charge of kids of the same age as these victims, and the ratio could be as high as 15-1 (and the camps I worked at both were right on the ocean). If kids sneak out, they are responsible for their own actions, not the camp/school/Vision Quest company. Sure the parents want answers, but there's no question that two kids did something extremely dangerous, and not only took their own lives but the life of a friend that tried to save them. My guess is they didn't have enough experience w/ bodies of water to know that going into a river at night was a terrible idea. It would be of unknown depth, speed, and temperature. Even as a trained life guard and former competitive swimmer, I'd never attempt what they did, but that's because I KNOW the risks. These kids clearly did not.

Ingrid

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:25:54 -0600

Every single time that there was some type of overnight trip at the schools my kids went to, parents were allowed to come as chaperones if they wanted to. I wonder if any of these parent thought about that option. These were 16 and 17 year olds. They were not babies. They were old enough to be babysitting for other peoples' kids. So what would you do? Hire a babysitter to sit for the babysitters?

Stealth

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:23:32 -0600

I will be glad when we're all heads in a jar and we don't have to be save from our own stupidity anymore. Then, the jar duster will be king! Were these boats chained up or just sitting there? Just curious

ubi

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:18:40 -0600

@jennyblur: Agreed. Don't we know better than to take the news reports at face value? We don't actually know what happened here. I wouldn't believe anyone posting here claiming they would forego suing if a similar tragedy befell them.

aderator

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:12:35 -0600

I know some people who work at CPS and a little bit about the program and the people who coordinated it. The principal at Lawndale is a great person and I'm sure he's devastated. However, other people in CPS regularly coordinate trips with little regard for adequate supervision. Teens will be teens and stupid teens will stupid. The kids are responsible for their own actions. It is tragic and unfortunate and I cannot imagine the grief this causes to a parent. However, the YMCA shouldn't be held responsible when people STEAL a bunch of boats kept at least a hundred yards from the water DURING WINTER. The YMCA might be guilty of poor judgement letting a poorly supervised program on their premises. The company running the camp and whoever at CPS contracted that company should be fully investigated. Arne Duncan declined to accept an award earlier this year because of all the gun deaths of CPS students. It was noble gesture. I would say these three deaths are also on CPS' hands because of the built in incompetence to be found on a daily basis in this organization. Unfortunately, any investigation in CPS will just further hamper whatever work the remaining competent people are doing. Maybe somebody will follow the trail. Perhaps some of the people who okay'd the trip have okay'd other trips with dangerous or little supervision policies. When I was in 8th grade and I went on an overnight field trip to Washington DC, there was 24 hour supervision. Was there such supervision on this trip? Look closely at the environment trips like this one are designed in. You will see how dangerous it is for the kids at CPS. And it's made more dangerous by lazy and incompetent "yes" people who are rewarded by moving into higher and higher decision making roles, regardless of merit.

jennyblur

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:42:40 -0600

Sometimes you don't get the answers WITHOUT filing a lawsuit. It's called "discovery".

bobnweave

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:38:34 -0600

Jennyblur, it's one thing to want answers; it's another to want the cash.

jennyblur

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:26:24 -0600

The thing about so-called "frivolous" lawsuits is that they are HUGELY publicized on the front-end when they are filed and then when they are rightly or not thrown out, not a mention is given, leading to the mistaken impression that this is a nation of crazy, irresponsible idiots. So, just like everyone remembers the drunk girl who fell through the sky light and sued, no one can remember exactly what the outcome of that case was. Bottom line: Probably single-mother sends her kids to camp. They die. She wants answers. Like any suburban parent wouldn't act the exact same way.

BeeRockafeller

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:15:04 -0600

You guys didn't get the memo? In the 21st century, nothing is anybody's own fault! That personal accountability stuff is soooo last century.

DaleyGrind

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:13:51 -0600

1-4...Yes, yes, yes, and yes. This was the fault of the kids themselves. Throw the case out before a settlement is offered.

Ingrid

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:13:14 -0600

I think that everyone who read that story when it first came out knew there would be an eventual lawsuit. Big surprise. Nobody wants to see teenagers die, but do these parents even 'get' the concept of personal responsibility? These were 16 and 17 year olds for crying out loud, they were not in kindergarten. There was a case recently here in Illinois where a teenaged girl got drunk and she and her friends climbed on top of some building and she fell through a sky-light and died as a result. Her parents sued, of course, and I believe it was either thrown out or they lost. Which is the rightful outcome of that story. How does one even THINK of suing when your kid goes out and does something completely stupid, of his or her own volition and gets hurt in the process? What are we teaching our kids? It' just infuriating.

Navin

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:04:25 -0600

Hopefully this will be thrown out.

moustache

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:03:54 -0600

Yes this is sad, but it's not the camp's fault. Maybe Vision Quest should be suing the parents for not teaching their children common sense which led to bad press and a damaged boat. Kids do stupid things, unfortunately this ended in 3 kids dying, but its not the camp's fault. Nothing like trying to profit off your children's death. Sad all around.

Von Erich

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:53:24 -0600

The body isn't even cold and the ink is drying on the Complaint? Only in America. Apparently they didn't teach responsibility at this Leadership Camp. And let's sue the shit out of a camp and group that is designed to give inner city children the same chance more privileged have. That way, that camp can close, all the kids are back in the ghetto, and their parents can whine about inner city communities being ignored. F that. The toys are being picked up and everyone is going home. Spoil the fun for the ones that follow the rules so they can be pissed at the ones who broke them. I apologize for the rant. Tort is a plague worse than AIDS. These kids didn't have to die, if they had common sense and respect for authority and rules. Maybe kids at retreats should be locked up in cages. It may be inhumane, but at least they would be safe. New invention for the recession that will make you rich: Cellophane wrap for children and for an extra $5, a tether.

Slaphappy

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:43:52 -0600

A sad situation to be sure, but this is a frivolous lawsuit and ought to be thrown out.