Chicagoist: Random Return of the Drinking Age Argument

smussy

Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:47:47 -0600

CL: perhaps that was poorly written. my point is that if people are allowed to get at their potential alcoholism sooner with no restraints, they might hit bottom sooner. it absolutely, no questions asked, is different for everyone. it's a mystery to exactly what makes people give up at any certain time. the treatment center thing was to say that if potentially more people were going to run into troubles with alcohol, it would be good to have places for them to go to. it's just a thought. nothing too set in my mind.

Karl Klockars

Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:40:46 -0600

Slaphappy: I've thought about the military question for a while, and as soon as I get that Senate seat, I'd put forward this legislation for debate: An exception of drinking age is made for anyone under the age of 21 if they have a valid active-duty military ID. If you want to sign up for active duty military and join up Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines/Coast Guard, I don't have a problem with you getting a beer when you're out on leave. The idea really is ridiculous that if we're going to entrust you with defending the freedom of the country, that we can't also entrust you with the responsibility of picking up a 12'er of PBRs and a handle of Beam.

Slaphappy

Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:33:56 -0600

The other problem with lowering the drinking age to 18 is that now you have high school students that are legal to drink. If you think high school drinking is a problem now, wait till that happens. I agree that 21 doesn't work and is an insult to, say, 18-year-olds in the military. It's a problem with no easy answer. I do agree with Smussy that DUI laws ought to be insane. In some states, you have to get popped for it five or six times before it's a felony.

CL

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:57:59 -0600

"first of all, we need to make sure we have more funding for treatment centers and such. it's great if this makes some people hit a bottom quicker. god knows i know a LOT of people who have had a sober 21. but, let's not assume that everyone will drink responsibly *or* end up in treatment. plenty of people will just drink like madpeople." I know this from having friends who had problems with drinking.....getting more treatment centers/funding them more will not make a person hit bottom quicker. Hitting bottom is an individual thing. It's a psychological thing that you can't throw money at.

bunnybear

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:21:13 -0600

Another thing I find in Europe is that the social stigma attached to drinking and driving is much more significant. This and very strong penalties could work to keep things in check. Of course there's also responsible parenting. If your kids understand that if they overindulge they aren't going to be crucified at home, they are less likely to get behind the wheel and get the car home "no matter what". Kids (and parents) need to realize that calling home for a ride or spending the night at a friend's when they are over the limit is the right thing to do...and they shouldn't be punished for making that decision.

Stealth

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:59:24 -0600

Stealth, I know people in their 20's who still haven't figured that out. And people in their 30s and in their 40s and in their 50s... The problem I was trying to allued to is that the younger we are, the more likely we are to think we are invulnerable, hence the continuing to think that you can win out over drinking rather than the other way around when you're 18. So you keep drinking. That belief that you're invulnerable to drinking's power dies out as you get older, so yeah, SOME people in their 20s and and 30s, etc., think they can still pound them down and walk away unscathed, but not as many as in their teens. Ask yourself how many of your friends still get wasted like they do when they were in their teens and early 20s. And now think about all those times you all did something stupid in you teens while drinking and now you look back and say "Man, how did we get away with that?" Those types of instances are far fewer when you're 20s and 30s, etc. for most people

smussy

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:56:17 -0600

well, i don't have a problem with this with a few stipulations. first of all, we need to make sure we have more funding for treatment centers and such. it's great if this makes some people hit a bottom quicker. god knows i know a LOT of people who have had a sober 21. but, let's not assume that everyone will drink responsibly *or* end up in treatment. plenty of people will just drink like madpeople. that said, people in europe DO get to drink younger, but i also think they have some crazy strict drinking/driving laws. like one time and you don't drive anymore? something super harsh. so, open the gates, but let's make DUI laws ridiculous so people think twice about getting in their cars loaded (teens and adults alike).

CL

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:08:22 -0600

To amend my comment a bit----enough kids are the cause of car accidents when they are stone sober. This is why I'm 22 and can't rent a car until I'm 25.

Ingrid

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:06:53 -0600

Stealth, I know people in their 20's who still haven't figured that out. There are stupid people in all age groups, but everything I've read about this issue leads me to believe that it makes sense to lower the age.

CL

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:05:43 -0600

Lowering the drinking age to 18? Sorry kids, the answer should be no (I sympathize....I'm was 18 not too long ago). One of the many reasons they raised the drinking age in the first place is because of the amount of kids who drove under the influence, thus causing car accidents and further increasing insurance rates. http://www.oyez.org/cases/1980-1989/1986/1986_86_260/ The above link goes to South Dakota v. Dole. This was a Supreme Court case in the 80s where South Dakota challenged the Federal Government on a condition regarding its minimum drinking age laws. If a state did not adopt 21 as the minimum drinking age the federal government would withhold five percent of Federal Highway funds. The relationship between drinking and driving was the basis of raising the age and making the age minimum nationally uniform: "This goal of the interstate highway system had been frustrated by varying drinking ages among the States. A Presidential commission appointed to study alcohol-related accidents and fatalities on the Nation's highways concluded that the lack of uniformity in the States' drinking ages created "an incentive to drink and drive" because "young persons commut[e] to border States where the drinking age is lower." Presidential Commission on Drunk Driving, Final Report 11 (1983). By enacting § 158, Congress conditioned the receipt of federal funds in a way reasonably calculated to address this particular impediment to a purpose for which the funds are expended." I know one of the arguments is "well, they do it in Europe....." Yeah, they do a lot of things in Europe that we don't do here. For instance, they don't quite drive as much as we do. The point is that they gleaned their laws to fit the situations they are in. In sum-- Wisconsin: Stop serving underage schmucks who will drive back to Wilmette after they get wasted.

Ingrid

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:04:47 -0600

Drinking age should be lowered. Marijuana should be legalized. Imagine how many less arrests and hassles (especially getting caught having a beer in your fridge on a college campus) would happen. Not to mention it would open up tons of space in jail for more serious criminals.

Stealth

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:02:08 -0600

The problem with drinking at 18 is that you conclude that since one beer made you feel good, 21 should make your feel GREAT. I guess that mistake can be chalked up to experience, but even when I made the mistake once at 18 I continued to think it would be different the next time.

Crackalack

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:57:16 -0600

ha, great article Karl. One issue -- I believe the preferred nomenclature is "dirty thirty."

Albanyparkour

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:56:41 -0600

I support your initiative Karl. Coming from Irish stock I was allowed to have a beer at table on the holidays as young as 14. Tasted like shit and I went back to my soda. In college I discovered my drunk-on of choice (bottle of Jameson and four-six Guinness) and then I UNDERSTOOD drinking. The "forbidden" nature of drinking when you're a teen would be diminished by a lower drinking age. But a society that fetishizes children and adolescence isn't going to be forward-thinking on this.

Mary_Sunshine

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:52:17 -0600

Sweeps.