Chicagoist: City Cutting Side Street Plowing

duchee3247

Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:12:27 -0600

i am so angry about the city cut on salting side streets, i watch cars spinout within inches of hitting my car, the worst part about it is we can't do a thing about. well when someone hits city property when spinning out then, maybe they might take notice ahd come by and salt our side streets.

Navin

Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:40:53 -0600

Not too mention that bikes use those streets too.

mikely1

Wed, 03 Dec 2008 09:33:23 -0600

Yeah, because all of our food is delivered on CTA trains. And all the CTA buses have a magic feature that allows them to float over snowy streets.

cozynite

Wed, 03 Dec 2008 09:27:43 -0600

Didn't a bunch of incumbents lose to new people this past election? What happened to all of them wanting a new way to run Chicago? Not plowing the side streets will be a huge money waster for companies around the Chicagoland area. Many people need to drive to work or for work and not plowing will add in wasted time and wasted money. Absolutely ridiculous. I think the aldermen should take a paycut ($92,000 a year? Really?) and think about what this city needs, rather than what they want.

Sears Tower

Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:17:15 -0600

Good riddance to side street plowing. Hopefully main roads and ambulance routes will be next! Streets are for cars. Cars are for suburbanites. If you need to drive your precious car, move your big butt to Naperville and drive to Applebee's for their new glazed portobello soy fries. Otherwise, be thankful they are deicing the CTA train tracks.

Albanyparkour

Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:14:01 -0600

@Skaterina: 49-1, that was the vote to approve this abortion of a budget. The wards are so ridiculously gerrymandered incumbents can only lose in the most egregious circumstances, and they're always running against other machine/machine-approved candidates. The time is coming when the people of Chicago will wake up to the fact that they are no longer living in a democracy, and haven't been for some time. That will be a bad day at black rock.

skaterina

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:33:42 -0600

Again, the overuse of tax-increment financing districts is at least partially to blame for the city's current financial problems. So much of our tax funds are being funneled away for Daley's pet projects that the city is reaching a breaking point now. Yes, the recession and decreased tax revenues don't help, but we would be in a much better position now if almost one-third of the city had not been incorporated into TIF zones, with more on the way. There will be a City Council hearing on proposed TIF districts along the portions of 31st Street and Archer Ave. west of Halsted as well as other proposed new districts on Monday, 12/8. We can't afford to give up any more of our tax base to these slush funds over which we have no oversight or control.

jimbo

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:06:00 -0600

@chicagoarmstrong Those streets, as well as everything between Wells/Armitage/Halsted/North Ave. will get plowed.

Albanyparkour

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:02:35 -0600

Oh and the streets of all the Aldermen and their critters? How much you want to wager they are bone dry?

Albanyparkour

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:59:00 -0600

Ald. Ocasio is a lion among mice. That budget was pure bullshit and will end up hurting this city in a time of economic crisis. @dopplerd: Thanks for posting that. I lived near a salt pile, up on Kedzie, and the run off would soak into the ground for blocks around. It was never covered and as kids we could see it shrink and expand from our back yards. Say a major winter storm hits and people are trapped in their homes, like the one in '79. My parents took care of a 25 unit building and those people were locked in for 3 days. It nearly killed my dad digging out people's cars just so they could use them to clear the streets. You get something as bad as that, and Mayor Maynot sputtering on camera? Maybe that would be the end of him? Nah, he's gonna be in office til he has a grabber like the old man or decides to retire. It's disgusting.

chicagoarmstrong

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:50:39 -0600

So, aren't all of the streets in the Gold Coast (like Scott, Astor, Goethe, Ritchie Court, etc.) all side streets? And does anyone really think those streets will not be plowed?

dopplerd

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:42:04 -0600

"That’s why we have to start really thinking about how we plow every day.” -Richy Daley Glad to hear that after 19 years in office he has started thinking about realizing efficiencies in snow plowing.

Stealth

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:39:45 -0600

Ald. Billy Ocasio on the recent budget. I'm not claiming he's some sort of genius but what does he have to gain by criticizing the budget.. well, other than a homeless women's shelter. "Ald. Billy Ocasio (26th) cast the only vote against the budget. He was one of the few aldermen who dared to speak out against the mayor’s budget. He argued that most of the layoffs affect not the desk jockeys, but "people who do the work and get paid the least." "We find millions of dollars in private and public funds when it comes to places like Millennium Park, the 2016 Olympics or Buckingham Fountain. But when it comes to finding….$75,000 for a woman’s homeless shelter, the city says it’s an ongoing process. We all know what that means. It means no," Ocasio said. "For the reasons mentioned — the wrong people being laid off, my community being taken for granted, all of the false promises and the fact that this administration believes that everything and everyone is expendable — I vote no." Story

dopplerd

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:26:33 -0600

In the past by the time the streets and san plow trucks started clearing side streets the storm was over and the side streets was already a rutted mess. By the way they rarely plow the side streets just dump a bunch of salt on the snow. In fact the drivers usually drop the plows before "going inside" to make the giant trucks easier to navigate on the narrow streets. The biggest thing that could be done to improve the efficiency of Streets and San is to divide them into logical geographic districts. Currently each ward is its own streets and san office. The ward boundaries are gerrymandered to all heck so the plow trucks are assigned to a route that is all over the place to fit the ward boundaries. A plow truck might only be on Western Ave 4 or 5 blocks before turning off on to sunnyside or some other minor street. Lake Shore Drive is the only street in all of Chicago that has a designated snow fighting crew. The second improvement is in the equipment the City buys. They have like 273 of the biggest trucks available with a front plow that sticks no less than 8 feet in front of the truck's bumper. Most other places use underbody plows that are easier to control and do less damage to streets. Of course if the streets had less damage, who would fill the pot holes? The proper fleet would be a combination of large plow trucks with underbody plows assigned to runs on the major arterials, smaller heavy duty trucks again with under body plows and F450 type trucks with commercial plows for smaller streets. Third, how about covering the salt piles the city uses. There is one in a parking lot at the lake front and Montrose that is not covered and is above storm drains that flow directly into Lake Michigan. There is another one near the river where city workers just dump the chunks of solidified salt (from exposure to the elements) directly into the river. Finally there is not a single calibrated Raven box in all of Chicago. A raven box is the control box for the salt spreading. The Chicago way is to just drop as much salt as possible with out regard to how much the salt costs or if the road actually needs salt. So due to the lack of proper maintenance and training the city literally dumps millions of dollars on the streets unnecessarily. Toronto instituted a training and calibration program for its fleet of plows and saved a few million in salt cost and overtime in just one year. Sorry for the long rant but this is something I know a little about and frustrates me to no end when I see the waste, incompetence, and indifference from streets and san. In short there are many areas where service can be maintained or even improved while saving money.

jimbo

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:25:50 -0600

@Blue - This isn't a matter of, "well we don't have the revenue, so we have to cut services," coming out of City Hall. This is a matter of them knowing that if they cut wasteful positions, they lose votes, which keeps this piece of shit (Machine) moving. There is absolutely no reason why a city that taxes the crap out of everything should be forced to cut services rather than employees.

Stealth

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:23:50 -0600

Yeah, all avenues for revenue haven't been explored, Not "all avenues for revenue", all avenues of WASTE. Big difference. I'm not opposed to raising taxes if it's needed for essential city services. But as I implied before, prove to me all of the fat has been cut... We haven't even scratched the surface and I'm guessing most of the people here are aware of that.

BlueFairlane

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:11:09 -0600

Everybody wants low taxes. Everybody wants cheap city services. Nobody accepts that you can't have both, especially not in a place as massive as this. Yeah, all avenues for revenue haven't been explored, and yeah, there's a lot of waste in city government. I'll agree that the SUVs are a horrible idea, and that some people need to be making less money. But I can't imagine that plowing and parking are the only areas that are going to be cut. We have to start somewhere, and this is as good a place as any. We as a nation need to face facts. We can't have all the things we want anymore. We've already spent ourselves into the ground. Now it's time to pay for it.

Navin

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:06:39 -0600

Mich, They don't plow my actual street either but they usually plow the more *arterial* side streets around it. I don't really expect mine to be plowed because it's not one that really needs to be.

Stealth

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:58:32 -0600

Amen Navin. All this talk of "the city is broke, etc., so better than laying off firement." Does everyone REALLY think that ALL other avenues have been examined and that all non-essential city expenditures have been purged? Prove to be that they have and I'll be all for a raise in parking meter fares. When they roll back that recent raise that the Council gave themselves, come back and talk to me...

dayofthedaleks

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:58:09 -0600

This may be what finally gets Daley out of office. If you aren't clearing the streets, you aren't getting re-elected.

sfmoe

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:55:44 -0600

Chicago is the first city I have lived in that has to deal with snow fall. The question I have is, if they cut back on plowing side streets, what will it do to the productivity of the city, someone mentioned above that prior to the 80's side streets were never plowed, on that note prior to the 80's the population was considerably less and work habits were considerably different. Apples and Oranges.

mich

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:49:52 -0600

My street is never plowed anyway, so I guess nothing will change for me.

Navin

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:46:33 -0600

I imagine an independent auditor could come up with plenty of unnecessary jobs to cut that happen to belong to relatives and cronies of city big wigs.

Not_another_username

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:15:03 -0600

I agree with the can of Treet up there--there's no money. They have to make cuts. Better this than laying off firefighters.

mss2400

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:01:31 -0600

Here's a news update: Recession and unemployment means less tax revenue for the city...that means that the city will either have to find different ways to raise revenue (i.e. sell the parking meters) or cut expenses (i.e. plow sidestreets less) or a lot of both. Of note, prior to the early 1980s, Chicago's side streets were NEVER plowed. They were a lot like Chicago's alleys are today -- Frozen ruts that are almost impossible to drive in. Personally, I think that the city goes way overboard on the salting and plowing of streets anyway. We get one little snowflake, and they mobilize the entire Streets & San fleet.

Stealth

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:46:19 -0600

More money (parking meter costs) for less service (no side street plowing). This city just keeps getting better. I think FINALLY people will be fed up enough with Daley to vote against him in significant numbers. IF there is the proverbial "viable candidate". Not just another of the schumck aldermen who have been in the council for decades and give some half-hearted run for the office.

tecki

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:46:04 -0600

Well, I'm not an expert, but the main concept is that the mayor and city council make policy and serve as the representatives of the people, but the council hires a professional administrator (the Manager) to run the day-to-day business of the city. This takes a great deal of power away from the mayor (which, I think this city needs) making the mayor more like a chairperson of the city council and a ceremonial figure. It isn't perfect, of course. The previous Charlotte City Manager (I think early 2000s?) got in some hot water over some e-mails, but overall, the system seems to work well, and certainly better than Chicago's. I think Baltimore has the same system as Chicago, and that city has at least as many problems. But the other places I've lived, which I think all have a Council-Manager system, seemed to be better-run. It may not be the solution to Chicago's ills, but worth some public debate.

Von Erich

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:42:51 -0600

If they are not going to plow side streets in a timely manner, then they should remove snow zone parking signs. Did Picardi take a page out of Mayor Bilandic's rule book?

matty

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:37:11 -0600

tell me more tecki...

tecki

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:35:41 -0600

I wonder if Chicago would be better run under a Council-Manager system. This style of urban government was created to remove politics from daily city administration, thereby reducing corruption, etc. I have only lived in a couple of cities that use it, but they both seemed to be better-run and less corrupt than Chicago (or at least, less obviously corrupt).

julsf3

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:22:28 -0600

This city needs a planner. Someone who can look at all this craziness and say, "hey, this is crazy". People that live on side streets need to get their cars out, too! Hey, we need to have our employees that remove snow work! Hey, do we REALLY need this SUV's? This city is making me crazy.

matty

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:18:19 -0600

I hate this city

Navin

Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:15:25 -0600

I'd be intrested to know how much money, productivity etc. is lost by having side streets that aren't easy to get through.