Chicagoist: Actress in Blackface Causes Stir at Goodman Theatre

Spook

Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:59:30 -0600

Hey Matilda! Bobby Rush got your page dear! He said sorry for not paying child support for ya. Had he knew that you would turn out to be arrogantly stupidly as oppossed to being just stupid like him, he certainly would have seen to it that you got into special ed program at CPS Navin I agree with you, having a discussion on Chicagoist about race is like debating a bunch of white angry 14 year olds from a trailor park. But I would like clarification from Roche Schulfer on how it "undermines racist and sexist stereotypes through the use of masks and Japanese theater techniques." I just don't get how Blackface does that and its not explained so I'm wondering if its just about shock value? Also google a book called "Black Like You: Blackface, Whiteface, Insult & Imitation in American Popular Culture" It was a pretty interesting book on the subject Spook out

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:25:51 -0600

I would certainly be curious to hear more as to why this group came to their conclusions, especially if they didn't know the context of the portrayal. It's not them or the play that irks me though, it's some of the comments.

Amber

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:48:07 -0600

No no no, when I say that it's "telling" which racist symbol creates the most offense, I don't mean that it shows which racial group can't take a joke or whatever. I mean it's sort of revealing which racial wounds are more raw and painful, so to speak, while others seem to pass under our notice. As for white men dressing like geisha's, I don't know about it being "a thing". I was just referring to the way this play was staged: two characters on stage - one a white woman playing a black man, and one a white man playing an Asian woman. The geisha is a piece of Japanese culture that has become iconic, in the way the minstrel shows were an iconic way of whites looking at blacks. The geisha is certainly not as insulting of a portrayal as the minstrel shows were, but it's still a sort of patronizing western veiw that oversimplifies a culture; characterizing the Japanese as sort of quaint. I hope that makes more sense. I do think it is petty, however, to condemn the blackface without having even seen the play. I feel it's clear within the context that the play uses blackface as a piece of our history that can still tell us about a past that we're obviously still dealing with.

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:31:28 -0600

Ingrid, It's one "group" that's complained, not "groups". I'm not sure that the anecdotal political feelings of immature high school *kids* are very relevant. Sorry. Just want to point out again that it's the typical (damn uppity blacks) responses that I take issue with, not the play.

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:18:55 -0600

Now you've lost me. White people dressing up as Geisha's has the same historical context as white people putting on black face? Furthermore white people dressing like Geishas is a thing? Asians are less petty because in this case *one* black group complained, apparently as elected representatives of the U.S.'s African American population no less? Is that the gist of most of these posts? Seems that way.

garlic

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:47:36 -0600

looks like amber already asked my question. Which means this is more of the "I haven't seen it, but I don't like it because of something I've taken from knowing a tiny bit about it"

garlic

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:44:09 -0600

Is identity politics a theme beyond the casting of this individual role? If so, ok. If not, it seems odd to do it in a single instance.

Ingrid

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:37:04 -0600

How do you know what I complained about or not? I'm actually quite a letter writer about things that work me into a lather. I just think that the groups that complain about racism against blacks should be vociferous about ALL racism and they should focus on things that really matter, not this play. This kind of behavior continues to feed into the problem. There are black kids at my son's high school who walk out the classroom screaming that the teacher is a 'racist bicth' when they get sent out for bad behavior. Kids get away with misbehavior like crazy because teachers are afraid of being called a racist. This is why I have a problem with this particular instance. Spend all the energy on real issues.

Stealth

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:24:30 -0600

Do these activist groups complain when tv stations air Barefoot In The Park and see Mickey Rooney portraying a Chinese guy like he's some kind of a spastic mental midget? Do you know for a fact they didn't? Even on SNL and MadTV they do horrendous caricatures of Asians. I never hear even a whisper of protest. Not even from you? Then how "horrendous" could it have been if you yourself didn't make a "whisper"? Did you write a letter? Make a phone call? You don't have to be Asian (or black) to complain about something that is offensive to Asians or blacks. I've written more than a few letters and made a couple of radio talk show phone calls regarding the (thankfully now defunct) Chief Illiniwek and I'm about as Native American as Columbus. At least I think so.

Amber

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:10:39 -0600

I just think it's telling that the blackface in the production is what gets all the attention, while other provocative elements seem to get no response. For example, the other main character in the play was a Man, dressed in a Japanese Geisha costume. It's the same gender/race bending; a white man puts on the trappings of an Asian woman. The Geisha, too, plays on patronizing, oversimplifying western stereotypes of Asians, as the blackface does. But the blackface is the only one of many many racial/gender transgressions in the play that people think should not be allowed. As a whole, the production takes a variety of racial and gender "norms" and stereotypes (some of which happen to be from a recent past that we obviously would prefer not to remember)and inverts them, making them appear strange and questionable. And as for the blackface, I think we should all remember that we don't erase a legacy of racism in our country by simply hiding its symbols.

Ingrid

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:25:37 -0600

http://sitemaker.umich.edu/psy457_tizzle/asian_american_men

Kaonashi

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:21:36 -0600

Ingrid: If you haven't seen POCs bitching about the unfair treatment that Asians receive in the media you are clearly looking in the wrong places. The difference is that these folks are working WITH Asian activist groups (as opposed to these groups expecting others to do the heavy lifting but HEY--different rant, different day). I can send you some links, if you'd like. :D

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:03:28 -0600

I'm not sure what your complaint is. I don't think people should be pressured into taking things out of circulation either but parties are free to complain if they want. The beauty of our system. I was under the impression that Song of The South was most likely removed because as times changed Disney probably didn't want to have that hanging over their heads. Anyway I'm not sure it's germane to talking about black face in a modern play. Which *again* I'm not casting any judgement on. I don't know what you mean as far as SNL and MADTV are concerned, I've never noticed anything deliberately mean as you would describe. Satire's often employed to lampoon the ignorance of other's who *are* actually mean and racist of whatever. I see what Amber's saying and I also see how that could be misunderstood, it's not like everybody's going to get somebody's somewhat esoteric vision.

Ingrid

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:55:14 -0600

Navin, Doesn't matter if it's old or not. The fact is, you can still see the movie. I once tried to rent the movie "Song of The South" and was told that it was out of circulation because of complaints from these groups that it was racist. I don't know if it's still out of circulation. And I don't call SNL or MADTV making Asians look stupid satire.

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:50:51 -0600

Ingrid, You're talking about *old* movies. As for SnL and MadTv, that's satire. Again, I haven't seen this so I can't know either way, I person just find some of the comparisons being made kind of ridiculous.

matilda

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:50:18 -0600

How dare you offer a reasonable comment based on fact and personal observation of the issue at hand. As a ranter, I am morally offended.

Ingrid

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:47:44 -0600

Good points Amber. I don't find this offensive in the least. There is much more offense in the art world, in my opinion...things like a giant red, metal heart sculpture recently selling for something like 27 million dollars. On a smaller scale, it could have been sold as a Hallmark ornament. Do these activist groups complain when tv stations air Barefoot In The Park and see Mickey Rooney portraying a Chinese guy like he's some kind of a spastic mental midget? Even on SNL and MadTV they do horrendous caricatures of Asians. I never hear even a whisper of protest. There is nothing deep in those 'performances', nothing that sparks one to think about the deeper issues of identity there...just out and out offensive slapstick. I call this another digging for boogers episode.

Amber

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:36:59 -0600

I actually saw the opening performance of this at the Goodman last night. First of all, people seem to be ignoring the fact that this is not only a white actor in blackface, but ALSO that this is a woman portraying a man. The performance seems to point to broader questions of IDENTITY politics, both in terms of race and gender. The fact that a white woman performs the role of a black man is, I assume, intended to call into question assumptions of what makes a person "authentically" a specific race or gender - is it nature or a system of social codes? To what extent are what we mean by the concepts of "race" and "gender" something that is performed rather than innate.

Kaonashi

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:35:00 -0600

Matilda: From my understanding the role has always been played by a Black Actor. There's also not a shortage of fine actors of color (some classically trained) that could have been cast. I'm going to go with artistic interpretation with a side order of controversy and BS.

matilda

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:29:35 -0600

Not to be overly cynical, but has anyone considered that one reason--out of many, perhaps--Third World Press is doing this is to generate some advertising that could lead to more book sales? Even the so-called "progressives" are not above such a tactic.

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:21:38 -0600

Well two things are certain: That picture's frightening & They'll probably just sell more tickets.

Kaonashi

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:20:02 -0600

It might have some artistic merit (as I haven't seen this particular production), but I admittedly would make a few assumptions about someone who would find this play "joyous entertainment" based on the first few acts alone. What REALLY sucks is the fact that their next stop is HONG KONG. Because it's really not enough that we have our BS stereotypes here; we have to import them elsewhere!

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:12:01 -0600

Umm 30's cartoons. Anectodotal evidence........complaining minorities...

UTV

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:09:43 -0600

Having taken a couple of theater courses, I'd say that it was most likely an artistic choice by the director. I haven't really been able to find out much about her thought process through rudimentary Googling, but that's what I would guess. They put on this exact show in Philly a year or two ago, though. I imagine they ran into some issues there as well.

matilda

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:01:38 -0600

I'm just guessing, but perhaps they went with the best actor available and affordable, or because the narrative called for a non-black actor? Does anyone know more?

Von Erich

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:00:42 -0600

Go to Charleston Illinois (EIU) during the off-season. Jamie Kennedy had a real influence down there.

Von Erich

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:58:12 -0600

Magical Maestro, a Tex Avery cartoon with Spike the dog may be one of the best and funniest cartoons ever made. But minority groups have a fit over it. It is in the Library of Congress, because of its diversity. But if you pay attention to the cartoon, the only racism in the whole act is the making fun of white people.

PumaConcolor

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:54:18 -0600

Jones doesn't say that blackface is equal to lynching. Their "emotional connotation" is the same.

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:50:45 -0600

I should have said "ethnic group" as oppossed to just "race" above.

Kaonashi

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:49:09 -0600

Very amusing...and annoying.

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:48:01 -0600

I'm being replied to before I even post?

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:46:38 -0600

He's trying to suggest that they both have the same level of offensiveness thus share a similar history. This also assumes that whites haven't been the dominating power in this country (world). It's a typical thing that people do. I don't know what to make of the show personally. The producer's excuses sound a little dubious though as Stealth pointed out I wonder how they would fly if some other race was being interpreted. But, hey I haven't seen it so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Kaonashi

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:43:25 -0600

Is there...oh I don't know, a particular reason why they went the minstrel route (as opposed to using a Black actor/actress for this role)?

UTV

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:42:14 -0600

Is there anything that man can't do?

Stealth

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:40:18 -0600

Thank you Navin. On another website, nearly every counter argument mentioned White Girls, as if that one stupid movie evened the table. LOL While I agree with the producer that to criticize it sight unseen may be wrong, I have a whole list of reason why I'm not a fan of this, but I won't bore anyone. Suffice to say I never cease to be amused by the fact that every minority group who complains about something like this is told to chill out. And the people telling them to chill out all seem to have the same ... characteristic. But I won't tell them to shut this play down or boycott it.

matilda

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:39:47 -0600

And what about white guys from the 'burbs driving around listening to gangsta [sic] rap and talking as though they grew up in Englewood? Where does that rate on the scale of racial outrage and offended sensitivities?

matilda

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:37:38 -0600

I think you might be missing the point. I see no evidence this is some plantation entertainment designed to insult blacks. Do you? No, I've not seen the play. Have you? I think we get into dangerous areas when people try to shut down art because it might--might--offend, or because it has a superficial similarity to another disgusting practice. I think the "White Chicks" comment is more apt than you give it credit for (here you go, making me defend something related to White Chicks. Nice move.)

Tower18

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:36:58 -0600

If blackface is equal to lynching, does that make indoor tanning equal to...separate water fountains? I mean, what? Whether you agree or not, their point was fairly coherent until they compared art to real and atrocious injustices.

Retardo Montalban

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:33:03 -0600

It's pretty great right UTV? Unfortunately my name isn't Disbled Montalban. Besides, if Ted Danson can do it well...

Navin

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:30:10 -0600

Where was this guy when White Chicks came out? Yes the nearly 200 year long practice of black guys dressing up like white women has been particularly damaging to white people on the whole.............

Von Erich

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:17:20 -0600

Where was this guy when White Chicks came out?

UTV

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:05:02 -0600

Hahaha. I enjoy someone named Retardo entering the debate on what should and should not offend.

Albanyparkour

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:45:40 -0600

Lets not speak in pejoratives here. This is one group who sound more confused than anything. Anyone who would ban art they haven't experienced because it might offend is ignorant, which along with hydrogen, is one of the most common elements in the universe. (Apologies to Flaubert)

Retardo Montalban

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:37:45 -0600

See: Al Jolson in The Jazz Singer

Stealth

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:30:53 -0600

Yeah, me too. BTW, I'm starring in a production of Fiddler On The Roof in the 'burbs with a large prosthetic nose. You should come check it out. I've hoping to undermine racist and religous stereotypes.

matilda

Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:06:16 -0600

I always chuckle whenever people--black, white, Indian, Martian, whatever--demand that art conform to the value of superficial affirmative-action thinking. Paging Bobby Rush ....