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This is not the first time this has come up in Indiana. Last year a gay male student wanted to wear a dress to attend his prom, but the Gary School Corporation cited a policy that forbids clothing that advertises sexual orientation or indicates that a student’s gender is different from the student’s sex.
Students and teachers knew that K.K. Logan was gay for years. During his senior year, Logan attended West Side High expressing a deeply rooted femininity in his appearance and demeanor. At school, Logan wore makeup, accessories and clothing typically associated with girls his age.However, on May 19, 2006, Principal Diane Rouse stretched her arms across the door of the senior prom, blocking Logan’s entrance because Logan was wearing a dress. Classmates and friends rallied to Logan’s defense to no avail—even though a female student was allowed to attend dressed in a tuxedo.
The goal of the Lebanon student's lawsuit is to get the court to issue an injunction requiring it to let her wear the tux. The attorney for the school said that the lawsuit is premature and that with six more weeks until prom there was plenty of time to work on a deal that would let her wear a pantsuit to the prom.
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I read things like this and really can't understand why letting a guy/girl wear a dress/tux to the prom is a big deal. Apparently, I am very blue state.
these things just make me angry. grrrrrrr.
Schools have dress codes. Minors do not enjoy the full protection of the consitution.
I very much doubt the phrase "sexual identity I reject" came out of this students mouth and I feel badly that an organization is politicizing her apparently sincere wish to go to prom.
Screw the prom. Why would such a non-conformist want to go to that tired ass ritual anyway?
It starts with this and before you know it kids are wearing whatever they want to prom. Weird clothes, weird colors, hats, walking sticks, kilts. Then they'll want to play their own music, not appropriate prom music. And then they might even stop coming to prom altogether, instead planning their own parties instead of attending the nice boring, well-ordered, rule-bound, sanctioned, appropriate event.
Mass Hysteria. Mark my words.
Cats and dogs living together...
It starts with this and before you know it kids are wearing whatever they want to prom. Weird clothes, weird colors, hats, walking sticks, kilts. Then they'll want to play their own music, not appropriate prom music. And then they might even stop coming to prom altogether, instead planning their own parties instead of attending the nice boring, well-ordered, rule-bound, sanctioned, appropriate event.
Mass Hysteria. Mark my words.
It starts with this and before you know it kids are wearing whatever they want to prom. Weird clothes, weird colors, hats, walking sticks, kilts. Then they'll want to play their own music, not appropriate prom music. And then they might even stop coming to prom altogether, instead planning their own parties instead of attending the nice boring, well-ordered, rule-bound, sanctioned, appropriate event.
Mass Hysteria. Mark my words.
I wore my Safeway outfit on prom night. Of course, that's because I was not at the prom. I was bagging groceries at Safeway.
LOL!!
Just think of all the money you saved!!!
"The student says she is a lesbian and doesn't wear dresses because they represent a sexual identity she rejects."
So...a tuxedo doesn't represent a sexual identity? I think it's more of a "notice me, I want to be different" statement.
I don't see why the school(s) made a big deal about the guy wearing a dress and a girl wearing a tux. Let them wear what they want. It's them that have to live with their decision. To the school, this incident is just a movie of the week.
I'm a big supporter of strict dress codes in schools -- it levels the socioeconomic playing field to a degree and removes distractions from the learning that students are supposed to be doing.
But as far as prom goes, as long as tits and ass are contained and they aren't wearing a political sandwich board, so to speak, I don't care what they wear.
That's life. It's a free country, but you just cannot go around expressing yourself every time, all the time. There are always going to be times when you have to either conform, or just not participate.
They're called rules.
I think it was last year that some girl tried to get into her prom wearing a "dress" that completely violated the dress code. She was denied entry. This story made national news...the dress, what little of it there was, was really hideous, but the fugliness of the dress was not the reason. The reason was that she was practically naked. I can't remember the whole story but I think she tried to get her admission fee back and the school refused and the brouhaha ensued.
She can wear that dress anywhere else she wants, but when you're going to your school's dance you just have to abide by the rules. Same here. As much I am all about freedom of expression, I feel strongly about abiding by the rules of the school.
If it's that important, hold an alternative dance.
Every year that are kids at our local high school that piss and moan about the dress code for graduation too. It's not like they're being made to wear hair shirts...choose your battles. Spend your energy on important things.
I think to kinds prom is THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS.
I wish that I could explain to every person under the age of 18 that they simply do not enjoy the same rights as I do, based on age alone. SORRY.
The term "you give them an inch and they take a mile" happens if you don't harness them as teenagers. 75% of teens grasp that there are just motions and procedures you go through and deal with before you are turned loose in the real world. Make the most of it by laughing harder, doing better in sports, earning better grades, etc. But doing something that someone will ask "why?" later in life doesn't cross their minds. No one will ask why you went out for hockey, or why you got a B in wood shop, or why went to your prom at all. But a definite "why?" comes with being a dude wearing a dress and a girl wearing a tux. That "why?" will be "Why did you bother going at all?"
The only "why?" that came out of my senior prom was "why did that guy's date pick on his tux instead of the entire parking lot to puke?"
I don't know Ingy,
but dat dur young women is now my Hero of the Day. I think if more "adults' progressively pushed social envelopes( instead of being so freak'n
self-righteously complacent then America wouldn't be drifting toward the big ice berg in front of us. I bet at her high school she has inspired a bunch of gay kids forced in the closet to be more courageous in the state that is still known as home of the KKK, ya heard?
so Big Ups so sayith yer Spook!
Heh...I'll bet she was every guys Hero of the Day on the night she stepped out in that dress.
But I think the energy wasted on this was stupid. If you want to make a difference, protest the crappy cafeteria food, or the bad teachers or things that really matter.
I mean, seriously...what was the point of her doing this? To fight for the right of high school girls everywhere to look like a fool at prom or her own aggrandizement? Hmmmmmmmmmm.
If you read the rules of the prom (or any school dance) before you go, by purchasing the ticket you agree to abide by those rules. Showing up in a dress that is the size of a napkin is not something you need to do in HIGH SCHOOL. There is plenty of time to skank it up, and one can start the minute after graduation.
Jennyblur is right on...when you're a minor, your rights are not the same as an adult.
My kids learned this lesson very early: My house. My rules...(did I just say that?)...but, yeah...they're good kids (not perfect...but productive and know the difference between right and wrong and how to choose their battles).
@Ingrid
First, I think, Ingrid, that the young woman to whom Spook referred was the one in the article, not the one in your comment. Second, this is an important issue, if only to prevent discrimination based on sexual orientation/identity--particularly to the kids who're fighting to be able to present themselves as they want to. It's not as if this kid's trying to wear a slinky dress or violate any other rule but the arbitrary designation of what sex gets to wear which formalwear.
A standard tux is not exactly revealing.
@Stealth
Just cuz the girl is overtly nonconforming to gender/sexuality norms doesn't mean that she doesn't want to or shouldn't want to go to her prom.
@jennyblur
First, I don't doubt that the formulation attributed to the girl is the most succinct version of what she feels to be true, so to suspect others of putting words in her mouth is useless at best.
Second, I'd be interested in seeing a case that declares the constitution to not apply to minors in part or in full. Give me a cite and I'll believe it. It may be true that objecting dress codes (when applied uniformly and without interfering with 14th Am. due process requirements) does not rise to the level of a 1st Am. claim, but that's different from a failure of the constitution to apply. In this case, the school is discriminatorily suppressing her freedom of expression by adopting an arbitrary and capricious dress code for prom. Different issue entirely.
Theralin,
If I misunderstood Spook's reference, then I apologize.
And I want to make clear that if there is anyone out there who is sympathetic towards people with gender identity issues, it's me.
If this student had issues with the school's policies about prom attire, then right before prom is not the time to start trying to change it. But rules are rules. I interviewed for a job once, got offered the position but didn't accept it when it was made clear that women were only allowed to wear skirts or dresses...no pants or suits. I love wearing dresses and skirts, but I don't like being told what to wear.
But then again, I'm not in high school and I'm not a minor. And it was my choice not to take the job.
Look at Catholic schools...girls have to wear plaid wool skirts and guys get to wear pants. There are rules to be followed everywhere. That's life.
I could see this maybe being a problem if going to the prom were a mandatory requirement.
But you don't have to go if you don't want to, and if you want to go, then you have to abide by the rules the school has for everyone. It's that simple.
Two points. First, there are differences between what a parochial school can require and what a public one can (the school in the present case is public): parochial schools can require you to go to church services, for instance, whereas a public school emphatically cannot. So the comparison is not necessarily apt. Second, just because something is optional does not mean that arbitrary rules can be imposed on it such that one can do the optional thing if one follows those rules--for example, while a contract can require that anyone accepting that contract (buying a ticket to a concert or to fly or to go on a cruise; getting cell service; anything like that) go to arbitration rather than court as a first stop in disputes, they cannot mandate the jurisdiction in which one can take the company in question to arbitration or to court. In the same way, while appropriate formalwear can reasonably be required, so long as she wears appropriate formalwear (either tux or dress, in no way skanky or revealing), the school shouldn't be able to make compliance a prerequisite for attendance. While prom may not be mandatory, it's still one of a handful of the most important (in most students' minds, at the time) events of a high school career.
I'd agree that right before prom is not the time to be doing it--but to a high school student's mind, two months before prom is a world away. If she had started working on it last year, would you have as strong objections?
For the record, my Catholic high school (like all Catholic schools in Chicago) offered girls a choice of skirt, pants or split skirt.
I really admire this girl for not waiting until the last minute and then throwing a fit because she wasn't let in - it seems like she tried to work within the system and make sure her choice would be ok, and then filed the complaint when it became clear she wasn't going to be allowed to wear the tux. That shows a certain amount of foresight that many adults I know aren't capable of. And I would not be surprised if she could articulate her opposition to dress in terms of gender norms - if she reads Bust or Bitch she could easily have been introduced to the concept of heteronormitivie behavior.
I wouldn't really call dress codes 'arbitrary'. They're there for a purpose.
Hey...I give this girl a lot of credit. I actually hope that she wins her case and can go dressed as she wants.
But I also hope that if she doesn't win, that she will go anyway. Number one, because it's obvious she wants to go and Number two, sometimes we just have to compromise.
I don't think she'll win because if she does, it will open a whole new can of worms...next year guys will want to wear dresses, etc. and I just don't think that the administration is going to be open to the headaches (for them) that will follow. They're just setting precedent.
I'm sure she'll be able to find something to wear that she feels comfortable in.
I have a close friend who is a guy, who would give anything in the world to be able to change sexes.
I know that he would have loved to have gone to his prom in a dress. Because of society and family pressures, he's now married, with kids and miserable. He would give anything to be able to wear women's clothes to his workplace and out in public. But it's never going to happen for him.
This girl is stronger and braver than he was/is, and I feel for her. There was a girl from my local high school who didn't go to graduation last year because she was protesting the graduation day dress code. ONE girl out of almost a thousand students. Do you think anyone cared? Do you think this made a difference? No. It's a couple of hours out of your whole life. And now she didn't get to participate in a meaningful event with all of her friends. I admire the chutzpah...but c'mon...save your energy for the important things. This is high school. High school is not the real world.
Ingrid,
Doth thou think that her choice of clothing had to do with being Queer and living in a backwards intellectual sewer* like Indiana? You really don't think Gay Children in Indiana are watching this? I can't belive I'm standing alone on this.
Where are the Chicagoist Queens and Lesbos on this? Blueline fairy show yerself! Well maybe they are tired so as a straight brotha I'll stand as I hope they stand for me
I think its no secret that beeders( besides for yourself Ingrid make me wanna gag mostly) but as some one who wants to adopt I would be proud to adopt a child like this. She has certainly done a braver thing than most adults ever will. I can't belive you are playing hard ball on this?
* the comparison of Indiana to a sewer as oppossed to a swamp is because I love swamps, especially those in Nola and although I have never been to the Okefenokee, its on my list and is the best thing Georgia has going for it
Yeah...I totally see what you're saying.
I am playing hardball,maybe.... I guess. But I feel like I'd be saying the same thing to my kids if this were them. Life is fundamentally unfair (actually, if you'd ever ask them, they'd tell you that I tell them that all the time).
I would stand behind my kids, if this were them, but I'd also be the first one to nudge them to go to the prom anyway...even if they didn't get to dress exactly the way they wanted to.
I've also got to add here that my son would rather cut off his right arm than wear a shirt and a tie. I wanted him to go to the local Catholic high school, because it's smaller than the public school and I believed that it is more rigorous academically, but I wasn't even going to try and fight that battle of him having to wear an oxford and tie every day. I've since learned that public schools have just as much, if not more to offer and everything is fine in that regard. And I'm glad, in retrospect....saved a lot of money tuition wise!! Whew! And now that he's in high school and has matured, he will don the shirt and tie when he has to without complaint...and rips it off like acid on his body when he gets home. But I digress....
I really do give this girl a lot of credit. I think she's brave for coming out and making a stand. But like I said, if the school doesn't see it her way, I hope that she will go to her prom. There are tons of ways to wear a dress and not look like an ultra-feminine prom queen nightmare.
More importantly though, I think this is a good life lesson...you just don't always get what you want. And I hate to sound like an old fuddy duddy, because I can remember many times when I was 'that' teenager who thought that she was so righteous and just couldn't be wrong...but kids today have this problem with instant gratification. They want everything to be their way, and it can't happen soon enough.
There will come a day when she'll have to compromise. We can't all be rock stars...most of us live in the real world.
All that being said...I wish her lots of luck...I hope she gets her way (so maybe I'm not so hard-ball afterall?)..but I really, really hope she can fire up her creative juices and go even if she doesn't get her way. Is it going to kill her, for just a few hours out of her whole life, not to wear a tux?
I'm with ya on this one though, Spook...most breeders want to make me gag too.
@Stealth
Just cuz the girl is overtly nonconforming to gender/sexuality norms doesn't mean that she doesn't want to or shouldn't want to go to her prom.
Of course not. I never said that. I didn't say she doesn't or shouldn't want to. I questioned WHY she would want to go. Big difference. Cuz to me, there are very few things more conformist than a high school prom. Hell, start your own alternative prom. It's done all the time. But if she wants to go and wear a tux doing it, fine.
Because the best disinfectant is light,
The Indrig/Spook Chicagoist Grand Alliance still stand chest out and strong, aarrrrrrr!
But fear not Ingy, as sure as cps kids eat Now & Laters for dinner while posted on westside/southside corners , I'm positive that this society will force a tie (and many other marks of conformity upon your son sooner over later ;-)
Personally, it is my hope to one day (in the not so distant future) only have to wear one every month or so, unless I'm just so moved as a fashion statement.
Funny I spent my prom drinking with fellow Citizens for a Better Environment “Canvassers”
at the Barney Stone in Lincoln Park or is it around where the cubs play?. It was my first and last day (which they didn't know) as a "canvasser" But I was happy that these fine fellows were able to sneak an under age Spook into their local watering hole so I would not have to spend prom night alone. I had a great time.
Ahhhh it is my lost youth and spring’s tidings that each year brings the ghost of Shakespeare to haunt me!
"If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here
While these visions did appear.
And this weak and idle theme,
No more yielding but a dream,
I think I will drink scotch tonight!
I wonder whether the school dictates what type of formal dresses the girls should wear. Personally, I'd rather see a 17-18 year old girl in a tux than some of the "formals" I've see lately that barely cover the girl's rear end (or front for that matter).
@Spook...old Chinese proverb: It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness...
You, and mikey1 should get together and have a scotch by candlelight tonight and reminisce about skipping the prom, one to work at Safeway and the other to participate in underage drinking (which I actually spent more time doing on prom night than actually being at the prom. )
@Mary Sunshine: couldn't agree with you more. Maybe if it were put like that to the school administration, they'd change their policy.
uhhhmmmm Mother Ingrid,
my choice to "skip" prom was a scosh-ah-bit more of a COMPLICATED affair of a broken tender hearted young and innoent Spook, than a desire to partake in (as you so reckless and carelessly reduced it to) "underage drinking".
If you don't believe me, go find Maria Martinez
who can testify that, as that Dire Straits song went
“ My door was standing open
Security was laid back and lax
But it was only my heart that got broken
she {Maria Martinez] must have had a pass key made out of wax”!
And as far as underage drinking, let the Chicagoist record state, My Momma raised me better! Hell, the damage I saw every morning in the wake of empty pints and forty-ounces that reduced whole neighborhoods to modern day version of William Hogarth's painting "Gin Lane" was enough to stir me clear( for the most part) of underage drinking until I left home for the ivy towers of higher Ed.
I Madame am wounded at your belittling of my tragic prom experience more worthy of a novel written by John Knowles or maybe Cormac McCarthy- when he was still writing good literature.
Now as far as candle light with Mikey1 goes, I know I’ve promised to raise a glass with many a profound Chicagoist legend, but tonight I hope to drink and heal the wounds (that You just reopened!) with a women who, to paraphrase Shakespeare “Is a dish for the Gods, but is dressed by the Devil and speaks two languages, only one of which is verbal”
p.s
Bravo Mary_Sunshine, shine on youuuuuuu crazy diamond!
Spook...you poor thing. A broken teeenaged heart is a broken heart that one never forgets.
But I didn't mean to imply that you skipped prom only to partake in underaged drinking...I just assumed it was for some other righteous cause, such as protesting the lameness and conformity of it all. You got to hang with older, cooler dudes while I was conforming with my fellow dorks.
My mother...the biggest teetotaling shrew of all times...I drank through high school just to obliterate her!
I'm going to think about you thinking about Maria Martinez...I hope Dish can help erase the pain tonight!! Salut!!
(sniff), why thank you( sniff) Engrid, (sniff sniff)
p.s not that I'm the type to hold a grudge even against the women who broke my heart for the first time (I'm not gonna get into the anonymous poems left in the locker) but I know for a fact that Maria now has five kids by three different dudes( one in prison) and has put on an additional hundred pounds, but man, back in her day, she was something