Chicagoist: Scenes From the No Games Chicago Protest

Navin

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:53:21 -0600

Your post describing "the left" was quite clear. No need for me to speak for you.

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:45:27 -0600

Christ, Navin, are you just pretending not get what I have said in comment after comment? Seriously, read what I said without invoking your own biases against anyone who dares say a bad thing about your beloved left. "Seems like opposition to The Olympics crosses all kinds of ideological lines" No. Fucking. Shit. That is why if citizens who oppose the Games in Chicago--as I do--should send a clear, simple, forceful message to city leaders--if only to get it on the record--about that opposition instead of mucking it up with all kinds of other complaints. Especially at a rally billed as one to protest the Games in Chicago. What is so fucking difficult about this concept? Agree or disagree with me, but don't twist my views on this issue into something else, especially because your political sensitivities appear to be wounded. Yes, I use this issue as a way to theorize about why the left remains woefully distant from any real power in America, but that still doesn't mean you get away with putting words into my mouth. You are smarter than this. Quit acting like you are not.

Navin

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:40:05 -0600

Justify your embarrassing blanket insults and generalizations (the left!) by claiming they're really calculated criticism all you want, they're obnoxious. What difference does it make if you were at an anti-Olympics rally? Seems like opposition to The Olympics crosses all kinds of ideological lines. Don't let that stop you from patting yourself on the back though. and trust me, I had about a dozen other things I could have done after work last night--in attending this rally? I'm sure you're very important. ;)

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:25:14 -0600

And quit misreading comments just because someone criticizes the left; you often do this (at least when you are not calling someone racist). It's your weakness. As well, quit assuming my motivations and intentions, or what you think are my biases. I have made them clear in my comments.

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:22:26 -0600

Holy batshit, batman .... Here is the point, clarified for those who think they have discovered something: The left, and others, do themselves no favors when they fail to speak in anything but simple, clear ways designed to convey a clear, forceful message; power usually is not gained and held by anything but discipline and organization that involves clear aims and effective communication; for 30 years, one of the shortcomings of the left--which was on display last night, has been the inability to follow the above. And Navin, please tell: If I was so close-minded, and biased, why on earth would I waste my time--and trust me, I had about a dozen other things I could have done after work last night--in attending this rally? Yes, I love my "cowboy" term, but you also love your knee-jerk reactions to anyone who calls out the failings of the left. The proof of such failings is the utter lack of power or influence the left has in this country. Believe it or not, but I agree with much of what the modern American left stands for--mass transit, for starters, as well as hard-core green policy and something approaching universal health care, as well as much more affordable higher education and more taxes on the rich--which is why I am often frustrated at the continuing ability of the left to keep shooting itself in the foot and to keep distancing itself from power. Not that I am nearly as smart, or anywhere near his abilities, but I get the feeling you would have criticized Orwell when he wrote often about the utter failings of the left, in such books as "Homage to Catolonia" or "Road to Wiggan Pier."

Navin

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:18:08 -0600

No shit. I said as much in my comments (one of them). What are you arguing with me about this for when I agree? Read more slowly, and with less passion, next time. I wasn't arguing with you, I was pointing it out for all since you didn't actually say where he lies on the political spectrum. Quit being so nasty and combative.

Navin

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:14:04 -0600

Holy incoherence, You need to re-read your own original post. "Cowboy" I've noticed that you tend get more into name calling the more you realize you've kinda said something that was kind of B.S. Yep conservatives have really got their game tight, lets see you've got The Minutemen, The religious fanatics protesting clinics and everything else, Tea Party/Libertarian geeks with asperger's who fancy themselves as John Galt or Andrew Carnegie, absurd Zionists, hynpotized 'ditto heads' and further examples are endless. As I said, you're not really saying anything: People to the left of my center right views suck wahh..they're all the same wahh..

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:48:31 -0600

Another thing, cowboy: My beef wasn't with the sideshows, but in giving over part of the official program--whatever you want to call it--to these other causes. Why the fuck do I go to this rally to hear some hip-hop nation crap, or anti-death penalty crap? That is not the point, no matter my thoughts on those other issues. Did you read the points I and others have made, or are you just arguing from your own prejudices and biases?

jimbo

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:45:42 -0600

I came up from the Jackson blue line stop last night around 5:15 and heard the protest going on. I started walking over towards it out of curiosity. The emcee had a sound system that could be heard 4 blocks away, and the best he could come up with was, "hey hey, ho ho, mayor daley's got to go, (repeat)." What a joke.

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:44:52 -0600

Indeed. Ironic how things turn out, isn't it? But: French, like many Europeans, and Russians, are in love with documents, credentials and other forms of meaningless paper, at least more than Americans are, so that's something in our favor, I think.

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:41:36 -0600

Uh, no, Navin. I went in with an open mind. I expected to be surprised, despite my attendance at other protests that ended up the same way. But look at the history of the left over the past 30 years, and examine protests supported mainly by leftists, before dismissing my idea. Leftists have no real power in the USA except on limited local scales. Certainly there are very many reasons for this, including their missteps in organizing and protests and discipline. "Oh, and Obama and pretty much every Democrat in congress is center-right on one end to conservative on the other." No shit. I said as much in my comments (one of them). What are you arguing with me about this for when I agree? Read more slowly, and with less passion, next time.

Navin

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:19:56 -0600

And the left continues to wonder why they are mutts begging for scraps when it comes to power in this country. Idiots. I am starting to think the left really doesn't want power or change in the USA, that they much prefer to simply hear themselves talk than actually taking responsibility for problems (and no, I don't consider Obama to be that leftist--that is, part of the far left, at whom my ire is directed; if you really think Obama is far left, or merely leftist, you don't know shit about politics or history, or about socialism, communism and capitalism). I'm glad that the few goofs that *always* show up as a sideshow at *any* protest helped confirm your prejudices. One could make the exact same statements about "the right" or conservatives. Which means that you're really saying nothing. Oh, and Obama and pretty much every Democrat in congress is center-right on one end to conservative on the other.

JessNevins

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:17:37 -0600

Americans are conditioned to fear authority. French are born hating it. The nation that gave us the Guillotine is not one to trifle with. Or truffle with.

mickcube

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:16:46 -0600

what's that logo on most street signs in the loop, i think it says chicago 2001?

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:46:19 -0600

You have not lived until you've been in Paris for a few days during a transit strike, or the other strikes they have on a regular basis, or their car-burning festivals. You can bump into scores of actual, real, 100% unapologetic commies, too--not just wimpy socialists or social democrats.

DNashty

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:42:06 -0600

Four years ago, I happened to be in Paris on the day of that city's IOC tour in hopes of getting the 2012 Olympics. Now, there's a city that knows how to protest. On the day of the IOC tour, they were greeted with a massive transit union strike, shutting down the regional trains to and from the city altogether, along with about half of the Metro subway lines. Almost all of the major museums in the city either closed entirely, or closed early. (The Louvre was entirely closed except for one special temporary exhibit that had been scheduled to open on that day.) There were huge protest marches, with thousands of people, near the Eiffel Tower and the Place de Bastille. Note that the 2012 games ended up going to London. :)

JDole84

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:29:17 -0600

I don't want to define the line of effective v ineffective for American protests, but lets say somewhere after Vietnam War era. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Civil Rights movement was effective. In the past, shall we say two, decades or so though it seems every little cause gets one. And the fact of the matter is, their so numerous now that it seems they get their space, a few coppers standing around them, and they put on their show so they feel good about themselves. From my experience, if the protest has more than around 20 people, then another issue jumps right in as well and joins them. I see them as rather annoying and infective. I've not seem them change policy in my lifetime, and hardly expect them to.

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:06:40 -0600

Yeah, but I think you should look at more than just the past few days--go back a few decades, too, and include such places as N. Ireland, et al. I'm pretty skeptical about the power of protest, but they have done some good and brought about some change. And that's not even considering the U.S. civil rights movement, where protests/marches did help push some lawmakers into making the right call on certain programs/laws, and, more important, kept the issue before the American public.

JDole84

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:01:07 -0600

I can agree with you on some parts, but I looked at the Big Picture G-20 bit on Boston.com and I gotta say, well yeah they're a little more intense, but I still feel their not accomplishing anything. To much of a mish mosh of reasons for being there.

Spook

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:49:43 -0600

;-)

Spook

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:47:16 -0600

uhm as I said in my original post Its "A dump Daley Tent". Every body in (even fat abusive cops and crazies) and nobody out.

The New Curmudgeon

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:44:21 -0600

This pretty much sums up how I feel about it as well. Our city is sold off and tossed around for the benefit of outsiders and tourists as if that's where all of the income comes from. For those of us that live here, we watch city services, public transportation (to a degree), police services, education, etc. etc. fall to the wayside, with a more-than-healthy dose of corruption on the side, and we get nothing out of it. Chicago is a great, world-class city, but that does not an Olympic host city make. I think this whole idea is a little bit too small for some very big shoes it needs to fill. I'm very concerned about the rationalization that Chicago can handle the Olympics because we've held the boxing championships, or the Gay games, which was held for 8 days, was not a mainstream global event, and was held at far fewer venues than the Olympics would be. Neither of these events required the security or public transportation infrastructure that the Olympics would. The very thought that the city is using these past successful events as a reason to be worthy of the Olympics is kind of embarrassing. It makes me think of all the contestants on American Idol who were great singers in their church or school choir, but once they get in there with far better contenders, they just don't measure up. They can put all the gloss and shine they want to on this phase of the process, but it's going to be a whole different story if we actually get it. Best of luck to the city if we do and I hope I'm proven wrong, but I'm expecting problems of an unimaginable proportion if it happens.

JessNevins

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:40:43 -0600

Another thing, all those fancy videos (shot by non-local crews!) and rallies, they're about convincing US, not the IOC. On a fundamental level, I oppose the Olympics because the IOC is a fundamentally corrupt organization that answers to no one. Adding that to the Daley nonsense, hoo-boy.

Mary_Sunshine

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:31:07 -0600

Or the possibility that 5 pm is a shitty time for people who work during the day. Just sayin...

JessNevins

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:30:11 -0600

Dumb Not changing minds Does protest alone work? No. It's part of the solution though.

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:07:50 -0600

That's great about the emails, and I think an anti-Daley coalition is more important, too. But what on earth is wrong with speaking with one voice on one night about the Olympics, instead of tossing random other shit onto the pile? If people can't even organize a simple, clear, loud message around this issue, and so do under strong leadership, what chance does an anti-Daley coalition really have, then? I'm not sure I am making my point clear to you: I want many of these people--not all, but many of them--to succeed in advancing their causes. But having these types of protests might be counterproductive, for reasons Bluefailane expresses below. I suspect that most of the unorganized, randomly bitching leftist as this protest either 1) are ignorant about how power and politics work; 2) or simply don't care, as they have no intention of ever assuming power and responsibility.

Ingrid

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:03:03 -0600

Once apathy sets in, it's almost impossible to start thinking differently...speaking from experience. I'd prefer to spend my time on trying to change the things that can really be changed. I haven't even lived here that long, and it didn't take much time here to realize the truth behind this whole "machine" deal. Anyway, it's my prediction that the Olympics won't happen here. I think it's going to go to Rio. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but I don't think it's going to happen.

BlueFairlane

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:58:34 -0600

"Ever[y] protest gets crazies." Which is why protests by their very nature are dumb. The point of a protest--aside from the strange claim of serving as a networking meet-and-greet--is to make one's voice heard, but it's always the crazies who are talking the loudest and heard the clearest. The crazies become the protest's defacto representatives who ultimately merely confirm and cement the opinion of the other side. I dare say not a single opinion has ever been changed by someone chanting a slogan and holding a cardboard sign.

JessNevins

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:57:34 -0600

The problem is there are so many reasons to oppose the Olympics you're drawing from a myriad of groups. Fair housing advocates, libertarians, cops, CHA vets, it's a big weird pile. That's why making connections is so damn important. Today I've got 20+ emails from people I met up with yesterday inviting me to their events and asking about mine (I work in educational reform) it ain't alot, but it's a start. I'm more interested in seeing a coaltion form to drive Daley from office. My hope is the indictments swirling around get him, but that never seems to materialize. I think we can get rid of him, I really do.

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:55:06 -0600

Yes, that's a strong possibility, I think, and an important point. Another possibility: Most people in Chicago, and perhaps in the whole state, long ago gave up thinking they could actually change anything save for the rare election when economic problems/tax hikes/etc (or snow storms) and longstanding outrage combine for victory for non-Machine guys. I've lived in this state my whole life, and in this city for a while, and I would bet my money on this possibility, too.

Karl Klockars

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:46:30 -0600

For the benefit of JessNevins and others, I should let the record show that while I was once in favor of the Olympic bid, I actually agree with the No Games Chicago people. I don't think we deserve the Games, I don't think the city can manage to produce a Chicago-based Games with any sort of transparency, and I think this is an ego trip for the Mayor. How much has already gone by the wayside while the Mayor traipses around the planet trying to sell the world on his city? All that said, it was pretty scattershot and disappointing.

mss2400

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:45:54 -0600

Has anyone considered the possibility that these protests were sparsely attended (and then only by the usual crowd of left wing "activists") because most people in our area seem to support the Olympics, albeit cautiously?

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:41:05 -0600

Jess: Agree about meeting people. No argument there. But what about speaking clearly, and loudly, about a single issue--in this case, why Chicago should not get the Olympics? Seriously, this is basic power and politics, and effective communication. You are right: the IOC, which gave the last big summer games to a country that is one of the most totalitarian in the world, does not care about these things. But there is value, don't you think, in citizens of Chicago speaking (on the record, so to speak) in a clear, loud, simple message on the Olympics, instead of various messages about various causes? There is a difference between "noise" and effective communication*, Jess. That is my beef with many (not all) on the left in the last 30 years or so. *Effective communication tends to help one gain power more efficiently than mere noise.

JessNevins

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:36:22 -0600

Ever protest gets crazies. In 2003 the anti-war march downtown had guys chanting about "Free Tibet". @Matilda: Part of any protest is connecting people. It's that sense that you aren't the lone nut who opposes the war or the games or believes fair housing. Look, the IOC people aren't listening. These are NGO fat-cats who will be shuttled about and shown only the toniest of tourist chicago. The point is to make noise, make it early and often, making connections is part of that.

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:31:23 -0600

Jess: So you met dozens of people. That is truly positive (seriously). But networking was not the point of this protest, was it? Karl: Yeah, the No Games guy was the highlight. I almost laughed at the useless absurdity of the hip-hop crap. In sum, the disorganized, undisciplined nature of this protest led me to NOT take part on the march.

Karl Klockars

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:28:52 -0600

Matilda, I agree. I was waiting for the reasoned, impassioned, literate and well-researched people from No Games - like Tom, who I spoke to in the last podcast. Instead, we ended up with Flavor-Flav-like hype-man stuff. I was wondering when they were going to ask me to throw my hands in the air, and wave them all around like I just didn't care.

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:28:14 -0600

While I understand your point, and somewhat agree with you, aren't protests as much about making sure various voices are heard (ideally in a clear, strong manner on a single issue--see below) as causing immediate change? As for "modern protest," I would revise that to "modern protest in the USA." The expectations/strength/realties of protests in Europe and some parts of Asia are a bit different.

JessNevins

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:26:03 -0600

Wow. To paraphrase the old saw, a protest is like a mirror, an ass can stare in but don't expect an apostle to peer out. I met dozens of people involved in social justice, community organizations and fund-raising across the city. I made contacts I plan on using in my own efforts on this and other issues. You seem to have simply had your assumptions validated. Good times. Karl's sneering was bad enough. I saw you work for WLS Karl, the station that thought putting Blago on would be a laugh. A guy who shook down a children's hospital. Maybe I'm just not wise enough to appreciate your wit.

Karl Klockars

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:24:14 -0600

Spook, you don't own a paintball gun, do you?

matilda

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:19:26 -0600

I attended this protest yesterday, and while I expected more people, that wasn't the biggest disappointment. No, that would be the typical leftist bullshit and sloppy overreach one finds at such rallies: Why on earth was I listening to some guy rattle on about abolishing the death penalty, or other nonrelated stuff, at a rally that was supposed to be about opposing the Olympics in Chicago? Sure, I agreed with some of the other stuff, but this rally about supposed to be 100% about the Olympics, 100% about why they would do more harm than good for Chicago. When on earth will washed-up hippies, socialists, superficial anarchists, eternal grad students and other such people realize that in order to gain power, or to change anything, one must be focused and have a clear message and strong, clear leadership, not a collection of causes--that is, giving every one a chance to bitch about anything--organized loosely around the issue of the day? Did people learn nothing from the last 30 years or so of mostly GOP rule? At least those right wingers are relatively organized and have relatively clear messages and relatively strong leadership, all of which contributed to a relatively disciplined movement that greatly aided the GOP's hold on power for much of the period since Jan. 1981 (even Clinton, remember, had to deal with a GOP Congress from 1995 on). See what the cops did: Organized and protested around a simple, clear message--better working conditions through a new contract--and used the IOC visit as a hook. And the left continues to wonder why they are mutts begging for scraps when it comes to power in this country. Idiots. I am starting to think the left really doesn't want power or change in the USA, that they much prefer to simply hear themselves talk than actually taking responsibility for problems (and no, I don't consider Obama to be that leftist--that is, part of the far left, at whom my ire is directed; if you really think Obama is far left, or merely leftist, you don't know shit about politics or history, or about socialism, communism and capitalism).

Spook

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:19:22 -0600

Klockers, son, too much knuckle! you're missing the forest! Polar political ideologies linked up to dump Daley means possibly a very dead machine on Chicago’s door step. It’s like divergent European political parties taking over parliament. And I aint talking bout Parliament Funkadelics either, I’m talking about a possible end to The Machine’s Tyranny, ya heard!

JDole84

Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:11:04 -0600

Ah the modern protest. A way for people to feel important without actually accomplishing anything.