Celebrate Chicago's Bike Culture With CPR's Hubs & Spokes

You could say that about practically every discussion. Most conversations either turn into A) arguments which often stray far from the topic, or B) circle jerks.

I don't think I said that, but thanks for playing.

""self absorbed misanthropes who hate on everything?"

you talk like an eighth-grade girl, in the phrase "hate on everything." Grow up.

What's next: OMFG!!!

Some of the best South Park episodes are the Cartman hippie-hating ones :)

In my experience, there's a tremendous amount of overlap in the two groups. Most local bike culture enthusiasts I've met -- and I've had opportunity to meet a lot of them -- have been self absorbed misanthropists who hate on everything.

Mind you, I'm a fairly obsessive bicyclist myself. I just never felt an urge to join bike culture. More, I never really felt welcome. My bike's not cool enough.

Because he/she asked a legitimate question?

Why can't more bikers understand this simple reality: If more bikers obeyed traffic laws, more non-bikers (who vastly outnumber bikers) likely would grow to respect, trust and perhaps even support bikers and their ideas, policies, etc. I don't bike, but I support the idea of more people biking, and would like to see more of my tax dollars used to support biking in Chicago. That said, my support has been cooled down because I see no evidence that the larger biking community thinks obeying traffic laws, which bikers must do under the state laws, is a vital issue. Bikers have become villains to many in this city thanks to the reckless behavior of assorted jackasses, and the silence on this issue from the larger biking community. That means less support for bike-friendly policies, even with our biking mayor.

No, not all bikers are jackasses (nor are all drivers or pedestrians or cabbies or groundhogs or whatever). But there is at least a strong, stubborn minority that doesn't seem inclined to accept that simple reality and would rather "war" against the car culture. Sorry, but that's a war the bikers will not win (perhaps they don't really want to?). Until the larger biking community does more to reign in the jackasses, more mainstream support will be slow in coming.

And before you make assumptions, I don't drive, and haven't owned a car in years, and that's from personal choice, not financial shortcomings.

Because he/she asked a legitimate question?

No because he/she was being a trolling jackass. Much like the first person to comment on any bike related post (in this case you) is *always* some jagoff complaining about how all the bikers run stoplights.

Until this city gives drivers tickets for all their incredible reckless driving, tickets pedestrians (like yourself) for constantly jaywalking and wandering around in the stret, and cyclists for running lights (and such) then nothing's going to change.

If you want to see a city with a huge amount of cylists where all those things are pretty well enforced, see Portland OR. Cyclists follow the rules pretty well BUT drivers are also ticketed for poor driving around cyclists and pedestrians, that's something that does not happen here. There's also virtually no effort by the city to educate the public on the rights of cyclists. Thus you get results like drivers (and biker riders!) in Humboldt Park who think you are not allowed to ride in the street and should be on the sidewalk.

Can you imagine a car at a stop sign waiting for you to completly safely cross the street to the other side before accelerating? That's a ticket in other places.

First, you really, really have a problem when people voice contrary opinions, especially about bikes and race.

Second, I don't jaywalk. Really. Believe it or not, but I think I was born with too much German in me--if you've ever been to Germany, you know what I mean. Please don't assume.

Third, I went out of my way to say that only some bikers are jackasses, not all, as you charge. Are you still learning to read? Hint: Don't read what you think is there, but what really IS there. It will help us all in the long run.

Fourth, your argument again boils down to: "Well, some drivers are jackasses, so bikers can be, too." That is the logic of a child, and a stupid one at that. How about we all make an effort to obey the laws? How about we do what is right even if others choose not to? Again, I must urge you to grow up. Trust me, it's a lot better when you do. You can still be cool and hip, and ride your bike, but your logic will much, much stronger.

Fifth, you apparently miss my whole point that bikers, who are a vocal but small minority, need more mainstream support to make Chicago even more bike friendly, but are unlikely to win that support anytime soon without at least pretending to care about traffic laws and the stubborn minority (note, I did not say 'all') that apparently takes glees in breaking them in extremely reckless ways (leading to deaths like the one last week vs. a cab). That's not my problem, that is yours, as a biker.

Sixth, if we don't 'talk' anymore today, have a great weekend. Seriously.

I wasn't calling you a jaywalker I was saying 'pedestrians' like yourself, and it's funny to hear you throw around accusations of immaturity when your whole entire post is so calculatingly disingenuous. Let me create this giant strawman of a reckless bike *community* (your creation there) that I can insult and attack but: Oh, at the end I'll just put in the 'not *every* biker is a jackass (just most of them) disclaimer. tee hee.

I made no such argument about people being allowed to break the law, again a strawman of your own making. I did say that in order for mutual respect to even start to be attained that the law must be enforced on all and then I gave an example of how that works. You had little to reply in that regard.

That's not my problem, that is yours, as a biker.

I'm also part of the pedestrian *community*, like you, and part of the driver *community* as well. Hey, at least I know what I'm complaining about.

Face it, you're just being an obnoxious jag, as I said earlier. Let's take a look at your mature and reasoned views on biking:

Let me guess: A bunch of like-minded people patting themselves on the back for doing something (in this case, a very decent and wise thing), offering no new insights or information or advocacy ideas. Yawn.

How clever! Very pleased with yourself I'm sure ^

Your basic childish beef with cyclists revealed:

You can still be cool and hip, and ride your bike

It would behoove all cyclists to make sure they keep eyes on the backs of their heads AND obey all traffic rules to the letter because in the end, the only thing a cyclist can do to a car is dent it with their bodies.
You're never going to win with a two ton piece of machinery.

The problem is that Chicago has created a culture in which NOBODY follows traffic laws, be they car drivers, bicyclists, pedestrians, skateboarders, roller bladers, hover craft pilots, whatever. The city has nurtured a culture in which everybody in every mode of transportation seeks only to occupy whatever space they wish before somebody else grabs that space, regardless of who should rightfully take that space according to law or etiquette. So when a bicyclist sees a post on here or elsewhere crying about bicyclists failing to follow the law, they naturally assume a certain disingenuousness on the part of the poster and respond accordingly.

I'll be honest, I don't stop at every stop sign or every light. I do slow down, I look both ways for cars and pedestrians, and if it's clear, I go. I've observed many, many cars do the same thing. That's just the traffic culture here, and those who fail to follow that culture are as much in threat of being run over as those who fly through intersections as if they own them.

My personally philosophy is that I'll do whatever I can without being run over, without threatening to run over or impede the progress of someone with the legal right-of-way, and without putting myself at risk of a ticket. If all modes of movement followed this philosophy, we'd all be better off.