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In the ongoing drama surrounding what may be the most ambitious piece of Barack Obama's social agenda, Massachusetts Congressman Barney Frank and Illinois Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr both held town hall meetings the other day on the proposed health care legislation. Jackson's town hall, while peppered with protesters out front, was a study in how to hold a well-orchestrated public event.
On the East coast, Barney Frank, however, had to take the reigns of his town hall, calling out a woman who compared the proposed health care legislation to Hilter's Nazi Germany. Frank told the woman that "trying to have a conversation with you would be like trying to argue with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing that."
In other health care news, rumor is that Obama may try to take a health care reform bill through congress without Republican support. The president says that he is "absolutely confident we are gonna get a bill, and I hope it's bipartisan." Congressional Democrats echoed that sentiment. "It is fair to say the White House and the Senate Democratic leadership still prefer a bipartisan bill, and neither the White House nor us has made any decision to pursue reconciliation yet," said Jim Manley, a Reid spokesman. "We will not make a decision to pursue reconciliation until we have exhausted efforts to pursue a bipartisan bill. But patience is not limited and we are determined to get something done this year."
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I love the right wing nutters who got all offended by Barney Frank putting this imbecile in her place. Anyone invoking Hitler/Nazis/Third Reich/Holocaust in a debate about health care reform is deeply unhinged.
The Democrats need to nut up, 70 seat majority in the house, 60 seats in the senate, popular president? Come on now.
The GOP has nothing to offer people but more of the same (there is no republican plan, nothing, nada, zilch) terrible status quo.
Balls check Democrats. Balls check.
Step 1 for the dems...pointing out that we already have health care death panels in this country...they're called insurance companies
Right on.
Personally, I think the Democrats need to call the bill "The America Plan". Yeah, that's right, like "the patriot act" it's an exercise in branding. Can't you see Fox News' cast of clowns denouncing "The America Plan". High comedy ensues.
That chart posted the other day is one I've forwarded to some older family members who were sketchy about Health Care. Almost all of them (including a couple die-hard GOP lifers) said they saw nothing wrong with that plan and hoped it passed.
Getting the facts, not the bullshit crazy psycho Palin nonsense soothes a lot of people.
I frickin' love Frank.
What I want to know is, how do I find out about these townhalls? The loonies with the Hitler posters seem to know about every one, but if all of us knew, the Youtube videos would look a lot different.
It's called getting organized. The nice thing is, they've done the work for you, figuring out where the next protest etc should happen. All you need to do is plug into their network.
It's also called google :)
Per the "conservatives for patients' rights" (wtf) site, the next IL townhalls are:
Rep. Danny Davis
• 08/22 09:00 AM: State of the district Town Hall - Malcolm X College, 1900 West Van Buren, Chicago, IL, 60612
• 08/29 09:30 AM: Town Hall - 2nd Baptist Church of Maywood, 36 South 13th Avenue, Maywood, IL, 60153
Rep. Janice Schakowsky
• 08/31 06:30 PM: Town Hall - Niles West High School Auditorium, 5701 Oakton Street, Skokie, IL, 60077
I will never tire of watching that video clip. All of these wingnuts need to be treated like dining room tables from now on.
When they can start asking intelligent questions, or bring something reasonable to the debate then they can start being treated like human beings.
Until then, rock on Barney!!
Jesse Jackson, Jr.'s meeting was the exact opposite of a "Town Hall" meeting. It is better described as a gospel revival meeting.
It was packed with supporters showing a religious zeal for one side of the issue, with Jackson speaking like a bombastic preacher.
Jackson's funniest comments were about the public option being as good as the Post Office. He stated that the Post Office is the only thing keeping FedEx and UPS from charging $100 per letter.
The idiocy of his statement is plain to see.
Funny, opposing people who make analogies to Hitler and lynch congresspeople in effigy is "religious zeal." The fact is, 66% of Americans support a public option, and the Party of No is doihg all they can to further marginalize themselves. The turnout at Jackson's meeting just reflects that.
The above commenter is misrepresenting what I wrote. I wrote about Jesse Jackson's meeting, NOT the Barney Frank meeting where the nutty woman had the Hitler sign.
By the way, 99.9 per cent of Republicans would disapprove of that nutty lady with the Hitler sign. But the left-leaning media present her as your typical Republican.
"99.9% ... left-leaning media ..." Give me a fricking break. Please, say "Obamacare" again so I can laugh at you. What's your plan Ward? How do you propose to insure all the people in this country who are bankrupted or die because they lost their job, got hit by a drunk driver, or got sick? You my friend think you're insured but that can change in the blink of an eye under our oh-so-great system.
"....66% of Americans support a public option..." is in one of the comments above.
That is just plain wrong. An NBC News poll of two days ago found that only 43 per cent supported the public option, while 47 per cent opposed the public option.
Please, if you are going to post comments, do not included misstatements of fact.
Sorry, something ate my link, and on further reading, it's 72%, I had 66 from some other reading.
Why isn't a "Town Hall" meeting Ward? Just because people who don't look and think like you weren't there.
Your link to your source for the "72 per cent" figure was an article in the New York Times from June 20, 2009.
Meanwhile, the figure that I gave is from two days ago, August 18, 2009. Which figure do think is more reliable?
Also, important for us to consider is the TREND. The trend is going further and further AWAY from support of the public option.
Largely because the Democratic party has done a piss-pour job of explaining the public option in any sort of detail. The right has been relentless in calling it everything Nazism to Socialism to Ism-ism.
If people understood what the public option is, what it will actually DO, I think support would jump.
Jess nevins is correct, especially with his first sentence. The Administration and its supporters need to stop focusing on the opposition, stop wasting time questioning the origin, motivation, or intelligence of the town hall zealots, and instead stand up and explain the damned thing in language that makes sense. Obama made a huge mistake in not strongly taking the reins on this, and zealots have filled the vacuum with inanity and non-sequiters. Now, if it's not too late--and I'm very worried that it is--he needs to stop this crap about what he may support or what might not be essential and instead pin down the main talking points of a single, specific proposal. And then he has to say very loudly and eloquently that this is what it is, this is what we're getting, and this is what it means. He needs to understand that you can't sell a car by saying it may or may not have wheels, depending on whether other people want them.
Can you provide a link to this poll?
By your logic, Ward (i.e., most recent poll=best poll) this one is better still (it came out today), and it shows 77% approval of a public option (Question #2). The most recent version of that NYT poll, conducted at the end of July - 66% support for a public option (warning, pdf). It's question #49.
People who support healthcare reform that includes a public option need to worry more about getting the plan right - the people are, by and large, already on board with the idea.
Why is it Obama backers never feel there can be logical, reasonable arguments to his various plans? Instead they always spout off something like "DAMN REPUBLICAN NUT JOBS ARE SCARING EVERYONE AGAIN!" It never ceases to amaze me how elitist democrats always claim to know what's best for their minority and less educated members.
The new battle in politics are between the straight liberals and fiscal conservative democrats that are dividing the big Dem tent created in the last election. Go too far off the elite left end, and the Dem proletariat may not follow. As for the GOP, they are moving toward a regional, more right-wing party which will make up about 25% of government, and many of their backers want that.
"Why is it Obama backers never feel there can be logical, reasonable arguments to his various plans?"
I make this point often, and you're right. The fault here is with the administration for failing to sell the thing. Unless Obama's supporters--and I count myself as one of them--can accept that fact and move beyond it, they will lose and lose big. And if they do lose big, it will be another generation before we talk about this issue again.
The party of "no" can never win, unless their opposition reduces itself to the party of "You're an ignorant pawn for saying no."
I am not an Obama supporter and I do have problems with his plans. The problem with conservatives opposition is that their opposition is irrational and not rooted in any kind of fact, on top of that they offer no feasable alternative. Morally and intellectually bankrupt in every way. "The market will sort it out" is not a legitimate answer unless you're a 21 year old Paultard.
Why is it Obama backers never feel there can be logical, reasonable arguments to his various plans?
I'm not an Obama supporter. Didn't vote for him, don't agree with many of his policies, he's a moderate centrist Democrat, I'm not.
I support health care reform. And the GOP supports...what...nothing? There is no republican plan. Nothing. That's sickening (heh) when you think about the fact that 1/3 of bankruptcies in this country come from medical costs, many of those people are actually insured or that 50 million Americans have no insurance at all. The GOP has NOTHING to say to that? Save that they want to protect the Managed Care Cartels from actually doing what we pay them to do.
Instead they always spout off something like "DAMN REPUBLICAN NUT JOBS ARE SCARING EVERYONE AGAIN!"
Because people showing up with guns and signs with hitler/obama on them, shrieking at their congressmen about imaginary death panels are more newsworthy (i.e. better visually) than rational debate. The media thrives on sensationalism. Hence, the antics.
It never ceases to amaze me how elitist democrats always claim to know what's best for their minority and less educated members.
Yes, like access to health care. What a bunch of monsters.
The new battle in politics are between the straight liberals and fiscal conservative democrats that are dividing the big Dem tent created in the last election.
You mean the "blue dogs". Please, the unions are pulling rank on those bozos HARD. You think they're going to buck the AFL-CIO? And swine will take flight.
Go too far off the elite left end, and the Dem proletariat may not follow.
Fuck you and your communist-baiting bullshit. All this talk of socialism and communism, any of you been to a communist/fascist/socialist country? I've been to China and Cuba and Myanmar. You sound like fucking children making those comparisons.
As for the GOP, they are moving toward a regional, more right-wing party which will make up about 25% of government, and many of their backers want that.
A nice block of crazy. God, just move to Texas and secede. Within a month it'll be "Two men enter, one man leave!"
Democrats, including some of the commenters above, present themselves as the Party That Cares, while calling the GOP a bunch meanies.
That approach is not working. The health care debate shows that people don't like being called "heartless." For folks in the middle or on the fence about the public option, the sanctimonious Dems are driving these people into the hands of the GOP.
the sanctimonious Dems are driving these people into the hands of the GOP.
lol [citation needed],
You live in a fantasy world Ward. Nothing like a bunch of rabid racists screaming about socialism and Hitler to attract centrist Democrats.
FWIW, I don't think the leaders of either party care much about anything except appeasing their corporate bosses and getting campaign money.
You mention a "..bunch.." of rabid racists,etc. That kind of criticism does not work. One nutty woman with a Hitler sign does not define the anti-public-option crowd.
It certainly defines the most vocal and outspoken and it's hardly one example. Similar wing-nuttery has taken place at pretty much every one of these events. Never mind the people coming with guns..