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Ever go to take a leak in a public restroom only to be greeted with the comment that you're "in the wrong one"? If your answer is "no," you're in the majority on this issue, but for others, this isn't the case. For those whose outward appearance for whatever reason doesn't jibe with traditional understandings of gender, being accosted while trying to use a restroom is an all-too-common experience. In an effort to combat the harassment of their community, a new Chicago-based activist group, Genderqueer Chicago, is launching The Toilet Revolution this Saturday. Organizers are urging participants to use the "wrong" restroom in various public spaces as they go about their business all day. And the encouraged response if given a hard time by other restroom patrons? "It's just a toilet."
In an e-mail message, organizer Peter Noble said Saturday's "city-wide theatre event" is just the beginning of a campaign to further spread awareness of the issues facing Chicago's genderqueers, an umbrella term encompassing all "who identify as genderqueer/genderf***/bi-gender/transgender or otherwise gender-non-conforming," according to the organization's website. "I see a world where these castes and categories we've boxed ourselves into will become dramatically less important. Where there is no longer a struggle for us all to simply 'be,'" Noble said.
So, if you see an unexpected face in a restroom while out and about this weekend, relax: It's just theatre. And it's just a toilet.
Post By Joseph Erbentraut
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I'm all for equal rights, but this is ridiculous.
First of all, I'm sure that if I walk my happy ass into a women's bathroom, I won't be greeted with a chuckle. "It's just a toilet," yeah right.
But anyway, my feeling is this -- if you walk around with a look that's purposefully gender neutral or the opposite gender, don't get pissed when people react negatively when they think you're going in the wrong bathroom!
I just don't think this does the LGBT community any favors.
Agreed, bathrooms aren't a free for all or a place to make a point about your gender identity. From the website it sounds more like they're trying to annoy and challenge people while they're trying to take a leak rather than foster any sort of understanding.
Don't mind me, ladies, it's just a toilet, and I'm simply engaging in a bit of "theatre." Anyway, don't blame me. I'm here on behalf of the genderqueer/genderf***/bi-gender/transgender/otherwise gender-non-conforming community.
Something tells me that would not play out quite so rosily as Mr.(dare I presume a gender?) Noble seems to think.
Women are encouraged to climb up and perch themselves on the urinals to use them. If queried, "It's just a urinal" is the recommended response.
Somebody's going to get charged with something.
Having worked with someone who was M to F preop (and seen corporate bathroom fuckery up close), I can understand what they're trying to do here.
I just don't think that this is the best course of action to take.
i'm behind doing outrageous things to make a point. sometimes, it's the only way to draw attention to a matter/cause.
unfortunately, americans are still pretty prudish and weird about sex and stuff so there can be a lot of fetishism around bathrooms. i'd hate to see some creeps taking this as a great opportunity to be in a women's bathroom just ... cause. not for theater, not for a cause ... just to be a fucking creep.
also, the woman urinal thing doesn't quite work. i've actually done it (you turn around and the urinal is actually the right height to use it as a toilet), but you still have to take your pants off .... so, i'm not going to drop my drawers in front of a bunch of guys. i'd use the toilets in a men's bathroom if i was going to do that.
i just see a lot of opportunity for stuff to go wrong here. however, i am in favor for a lot more unisex bathrooms. ... if guys learn to put the seat down after they pee.
Which leads to a completely different discussion: Why should guys be solely responsible for the movement of the seat? Women can put it down as easily as we can lift it, and neither party has to put that much effort into it. I've never understood the animosity connected to this issue.
It's simple.
You're the one who puts it up to pee, right? Then you should be the one to put it back down when you're done. It's just manners.
And it's such a simple thing to do just to be respectful.
My ex was bad about putting the seat back down. Once, I got up in the middle of the night to pee and didn't turn on any lights. I almost freaking impaled my head on the towel rack while falling into the toilet. You, as a man, don't have to risk being impaled just to pee in the middle of the night.
And anyway, it's just being nice. It takes a nano second to do something just to be nice. Why would you make a big deal about doing something so simple?
Question: if you go into a bathroom and the seat's up, do you put it back up when you're done? My guess is "probably not."
;)
But again, why is down the default position? Why are men the only ones expected to be courteous? Why are men the only ones expected to take a nano second to be nice?
And why was it so hard for you to flip on a light? Why should your ex take responsibility for your lack of coordination? Just asking. :-)
Who has the bigger chance of impalement when they get up to pee at night?
Women have to sit on the toilet every single time they use it. It's just a small act of kindness for someone else.
I mean, I bring you a beer before you even ask...can you just put the seat down?
But still, I ask the same questions. Why, as the person who risks impalement (I'm not quite sure how that works), do you not take measures to prevent said impalement? As the person being impaled, I would think it would be in your interest to be the person taking the initiative. You are correct, in that women have to sit. It's their biological need. Why should we, then, be responsible for taking measures to facilitate your need?
Again, it takes as much effort for you to move the seat as it does for us. Why do you expect us to take the action you need taken? Why is down the default position?
Jesus people, did you all escape from the set of a mid 90's sitcom?
Impalement? Where the hell do you live, a sword factory?
You know what?
Why don't you sit down on the toilet tonight, in the dark, when you think the seat is down and have a towel rack that is right next to the toilet and have said towel rack slice your head open on the way down? It might as well be as sword factory.
And it's just about being nice. That's all it is. I'm a nice person, I like to do nice things for people, so I guess I'm just not getting where your astonishment about this is coming from.
If you're living in the same house with someone, it's just a nice thing to do. It's nice that the seat is always down for when guests come over or just for the people who live there.
It's called good manners. That's all it is. Good manners. Sometimes good manners requires a second or two of extra effort...but don't make this into something more than what it is.
Good manners. It's nice. That's all. There is no thesis to be written.
Just be nice. That's all I can say about it. Just be nice. Is it really so hard?
And it looks nicer to have the seat down too.
I'm beginning to think that pulling down a toilet seat is really, really hard.
Three out of four uses for the toilet seat require it to be down. So why not just leave it down?
Kaonashi is right...I guess it's just too hard to do this (for some).
My son has no problem with this, so it will be a nice thing for any future girls he ever rooms with. Hint: girls like guys who are nice and who have manners and who treat their mothers with kindness and respect.
And also, seriously...it just looks better when it's down. Bluefairlane, if that makes it any easier for you to deal with...don't think of it as doing something nice for the women in your life. Think about it in a decorating sense.
And for the majority of men, especially when you live with women, when you go to take a piss, the seat is already down...it's even down if the last person to use it was you and you dropped the kids off at the pool...so, if it's down when you arrive, put it down when you leave.
Just because it LOOKS better. You don't want to go around wasting time being nice, afterall.
"I'm a nice person, I like to do nice things for people, ..."
Unless it involves moving a toilet seat. Then you only expect others to be nice.
Really, the thing I can't get about this issue is why it's an issue. I've known many women who treat a raised toilet seat as if it's the lead-lined lid to a nuclear reactor. I don't get it.
And you know, I've frequently sat on a toilet in the middle of the night (guys can't do everything standing up, you know), and I've never had a problem. And if I did, my house has this newfangled thing called electricity.
It's not such an issue for you when you go to pee, since you're already standing up and all, when the seat is already up and you have to put it down.
You're not at any risk of falling into the water or hurting yourself, right?
And if you're not peeing, then it would be nice if the seat were already down, right?
Sooooooo....just leave it down all the time! It's just logical.
Gosh...I honestly don't see what the big deal is. If I had my son read this thread, he wouldn't even believe it. It's such a non issue with him.
@Scooter Libby...your comment is exactly why I don't think this whole unisex idea is a good one. I used to work in a restaurant where the waitresses had to clean the bathrooms. The first time I had to clean the men's room, I swear I almost quit that job right on the spot. It was fucking disgusting. I thought I was going to die.
The worst thing about the women's room was just lots of paper all over the place.
As far as I'm concerned women are just powdering their noses in the restroom and thus the toilet seat will stay in whatever position I leave it in.
Am I the only person who puts the LID down after she uses the bathroom? Good lord, why do you need to see the toilet bowl? When I flush, I put the lid down -- so stuff doesn't spray everywhere. So I expect to lift the lid and sit down -- and my husband is trained to put the seat AND the lid down.
I think this is a cute idea. Bathrooms for bodily waste. A toilet is a toilet. How many times have you been at a club or bar and seen some stupid line for the women's restroom while the guy's bathroom is free and clear?
Single occupant bathrooms are even stupider. I worked in an office building with a male/female toilet on each floor. No urinals, just two identical one person toilets. People used whichever one was free, until the building company put up some ridiculous sign about "inappropriate use of toilet facilities" and threatened to fine or evict tenants who did not use "the appropriate bathroom".
Seriously, I don't get nude on the toilet and in my lifetime I've seen maybe 2 actual penises in a men's room. Both at a single cubs game where some drunk bleaher bums were trying to pee on each other.
It's a toilet. Do you business and move on.
Ingrid, there are way too many guys who don't put the seat down to piss in a public toilet. I wish they would get seats that spring up automatically when you get off it!
Well, there's 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Will the two of you shut the fuck up already with this up/down toilet seat bullshit?
As for the gender issue, all of you people who think it matters which toilet is which, or who think that because everyone's still prude about this it's just gonna make things worse, you are THE TARGET of this protest. Of course you think it's a bad idea, but guess what? It's gonna happen anyway. The rest of us are sick and tired of being held in judgement by a complete stranger for the "sanctity" of a FUCKING TOILET, so now we're gonna do something about it.
Grow up.
Hey johnny, it's called having a discussion and we'll shut the fuck up when we shut the fuck up, not when you say to.
"As for the gender issue, all of you people who think it matters which toilet is which, or who think that because everyone's still prude about this it's just gonna make things worse, you are THE TARGET of this protest. Of course you think it's a bad idea, but guess what? It's gonna happen anyway. The rest of us are sick and tired of being held in judgement by a complete stranger for the "sanctity" of a FUCKING TOILET, so now we're gonna do something about it.
Grow up."
A few things:
1. This is what counts as a protest these days? My, how the standards have degraded since the 19th-century labor marches and the civil rights sit ins.
2. Encouraging acceptance of those, for better or worse, occupy the fringes of society will hardly come about about trying to piss of people trying to piss or squeeze a loaf.
3. I think you hold yourself in rather high esteem, and suggest a little practice at being humble.
4. Target? Yeah, target random people instead of trying to educate them always works out well, doesn't it?
Before you accuse me of being a prude or Nazi, please note that I support the rights of transgendered and the like. I just don't want someone of the opposite gender pissing or shitting next to me. Sorry, but that's just how it goes.
Now go change the world, you latter day Dr King!!!
I sincerely doubt 10 minutes of your life is all that valuable, johnny.
It's important because no matter who you are, no one wants to end up doing the toilet bowl assdunk because someone left the fucking seat up!
"grow up"?
One of the first parts of growing up is realizing you don't get to make the rules for the world. You live in a society, so you respect the rules of the society. One of the rules of society is that women (and some men, for that matter) don't want to be in a public toilet with strangers of the opposite sex.
I don't know why you feel the need to subvert this. Its such a childlike attitude.
People on the fringe of the center are either angry that they're not part of the mainstream, or angry that the status quo isn't incorporating their point of view. Therefore, they engage in extreme tactics like this simply to attract attention and testify to their own terrific uniqueness.
This is why PETA, Critical Mass and LGBT organzations are increasingly becoming asshole magnets. Outsiders are the ultimate snobs.
I'm sorry that gay people wanting their civil liberties offends you so much. I guess advocating for a gender-bias free society where everyone is free to live and love as they wish is kind of annoying.
It's just like the PETA people comparing chicken-farming to the Holocaust, or Critical Mass clogging up city streets on dangerous leader-less rides.
You're right. You knobhead.
Yeah, that's exactly what Muck said, right?
This silly little piece of performance art and annoyance is hardly the Stonewall riots, pal, or the AIDS marches and activism of the 1980s. And I can't imagine that this type of protest will result in any changed minds. It likely will result in a few fights and some disorderly conduct arrests, along with a cheap sense of martydom for a few misguided participants. (Or, more likely, will result in nothing--not even a whimper, much less a bang.)
Mind you, I'm one who has no problem with people being whatever gender they want to be, and having all their rights protected while doing so.
Finally, if the main beef of this group (is it really a group, or just some bored brats) is to widen access to public toilets, then perhaps things aren't as bad as one might assume. This is trivia pimped up as serious social activism.
I'm sorry that gay people wanting their civil liberties offends you so much. I guess advocating for a gender-bias free society where everyone is free to live and love as they wish is kind of annoying.
Give me a fucking break. You always chime in on topics like this and turn everything into a pissing match. "See, see, I care the MOSTEST about gays and lesbians!!!"
My gay sister can't marry the woman she's lived with for years. I greatly wish that weren't the case. But dopey pee-pee games like this will only serve to solidify people's misbegotten prejudices that the LGBT community is collectively a bunch of perverted weirdos that are not to be trusted.
Some "in your face" tactics can work, but this isn't one of them.
Another problem with this bit of pointless acting out is that it seems to have perpetuated the myth that "transgender" is the same thing as "homosexual." Personally, I don't think this is a significant issue, but even if it were, it wouldn't be a gay issue.
No, to most bigots we're all just queers.
1. You tell 'em, Ingrid. I have when someone on a message board tell people to shut up. Skip over or stop reading, douchenozzle. Who the hell is making you read?
2. This whole toiletseat thing is ridiculous. I have to check to put it up so why can't women check to put it down? Hell, you got gravity helping you too. In the fight for gender equality, this is wasted energy.
3. This whole thread sounds like a routine from The Chuckle Hut in Cincinnatti, circa 1983.
the reason why putting a toilet seat down is so much worse than putting it up is because the underside of a toilet is so effin' nasty. hairs, piss, etc. gross. i just don't feel like i should have to deal with it. ultimately, if you wanted to, you could sit down and pee. it's not unheard of. so, i just think it's common courtesy to put the thing back down.
Hi. Wow.
Let's not forget that all of these things are important to all of us, and I think that at the core, most of us just want to feel safe and comfortable in the restroom, yes?
I really appreciate the concern. But I think that we are creative enough as individuals and a society to come up with something that's more inclusive.
Do you ever feel like people place unreasonable expectations on your because of your assigned gender? Well, what if those expectations prevented you from being able to pee in public restrooms?