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When we spoke with Rick Klein about his online Museum of Classic Chicago Television (colloquially known as Fuzzy Memories) for this Chicagoist interview, one of the things that was mentioned was the way that WGN-TV was barring his site from posting TV clips from the station.
Klein started taking the fight to Chicago's Very Own yesterday, posting a request for readers and fans to send messages to WGN kindly requesting that they allow Fuzzy Memories to post things in his collection from the station like promos, news clips, and movie bumpers from years gone by.
The argument from the peanut gallery is always "It's WGN's creation, and they can do with it what they want!" And that's true - WGN has the rights to do what ever they want with their own content, and they say they have an exclusive association with the struggling Museum of Broadcast Communications. But if the MBC isn't doing anything with it, and the content is gathering digital dust in some darkened corner, what's the harm in allowing another non-profit organization to host them for all to enjoy?
WGN's attitude and position is a lose-lose situation all around. Fans don't get to see the classic content, WGN loses out on having the attention paid to their old product (with no effort expended on their own), and Rick is left with a gaping hole in his online collection while his tapes are enjoyed by none. An email to General Manager Marty Wilke might help the situation, but like Rick says, "be polite and respectful."
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I think it's very telling that the MCCTv has been working for over a year behind the scenes trying to get WGN to take part in any kind of dialogue on the matter.
They don't want to cause WGN to lose face, but a public wake-up call is the next logical step to WGN's stonewalling tactics.
I wish WGN would explain their stance on the preservation of their history. Maybe then we would understand why they feel only the MBC can accomplish this and any other museum is somehow considered a threat.
I'm a big fan of MCCTv and have been following this for a while. I think it's important to point out that the content we're talking about isn't even full shows - we're talking about vintage graphics and promos and station ID's. It's not like they're looking to post entire episodes of Bozo or anything - the clips are usually under a minute long.
I actually don't understand why it doesn't simply fall under the heading of Fair Use, since the clips are brief and identified. The MCCTv has even gone through the process of obtaining non-profit status and now officially exists to serve the public interest.
It's really a shame, because I've seen the clips in question (before they were taken down) and it's really wonderful stuff - Frasier Thomas introducing movies on "Family Classics", old news intros and show promos - things that, for me at least, connect me to my childhood in a visceral way nothing else does. I watched these very clips when I was a little kid, and somewhere in the dark recesses of my psyche is something that's triggered when I see them again. It's gotten me addicted to the MCCTv.
Also, the material in question is material that the MBC doesn't even have or have access to. This is all material that was preserved by people at home on their VCR's and preserved and curated by Rick Klein. Even if the MBC were up and running, this material would not be available, so they're trying to suppress it permanently.
I really hope they can resolve the issue and peaceably coexist, because the MBC and MCCTv both serve a great purpose and are very much appreciated by former childhood TV junkies like me.
The MBC (or as Steve Dahl calls it "the trunk of Bruce Dumont's car") is a joke. MCCTv has been working hard to make real pieces of broadcast history accessible. The MBC site is awful and features such amazing history as episodes of the West Wing and Roseanne. Oh the memories!
The MBC has long been little more than a fundraising shell-game. For 60 bucks you can go see Bill Jackson and Dirty Dragon or drop some change on the MBC DVD store. That's not about history, that's not about preserving great old broadcast memories. WGN is a venerable broadcast institution, they shouldn't put all their historical eggs in Bruce Dumont's rickety basket.
Pardon me for murdering that metaphor.
I have been following this for the last couple of days and it's very obvious that the same 6 people keep posting the same comments, over and over. From what I've heard, the MCCTV posted material before they asked permission to do so, and now that their hand was slapped by a large media conglomerate, they are pleading their case to the public. Who in their right mind thinks that bullying a large corporation like The Tribune Company/WGN will make any impact whatsoever?
This is less about the MBC, a 25 year institution that has a very large online presence and has been serving Chicago and beyond for years. It appears that "Fuzzy" started their site with any cooperation from the broadcast community, and now when it's too late, they are acting like the victim. No one has the right to display the content that belongs to others, especially when they don't go through the proper channels from the beginning. No one owes you or your website anything.
Not sure why you have made Bruce DuMont out to be the bad guy here. He has built and incredible institution that is respected both in Chicago and nationally. I have attended MBC events and am a member of their online community. I have also visited your website and found it fun and entertaining, but your bashing is unwarranted and mean-spirited and must be coming from within your organization.
I'm trying to understand your criticism regarding the home page of the MBC's website. On their main page, they have a clip of "Roseanne" which premiered 20+years ago this month, 40 Years of The Brady Bunch, the 50 Year Anniversary of The Twilight Zone, etc.
They also talk about a release party event they had with the US Postal Service and the Nielsen Company for the commemorative television stamps that were released this summer. You can view the top moments in political history, documentaries on Civil Rights, the Vietnam War etc. In December, they are honoring a Chicago legend, Bill Jackson with a public event. Their Radio Hall of Fame event is in November.
I'm sorry, but is there something wrong with the historical nature of what they are doing as a museum? I'm sorry, but the entire world isn't clamoring over promotional footage from Channel 32 in the 1980s.
"Fuzzys" homepage talks about a "Channel5 Meditation Station Sign Off" (with comments by who appears to be the gentlemen commenting in this article), some White Sox footage that I'm sure the MLB would love to shut down, "The Baby Doll Polka Club" and more. You talk about the MBC's fundraising, it's public programs and online store. They are still running an educational museum online. "Fuzzy" is asking for $10-$30 donations to sponsor videos. It appears that only 5 videos are sponsored, 2 by the same person. Where does that money go?
If you like the content on one website versus another, visit the site you enjoy. Your bashing is nothing short of immature. This isn't about one museum over another. From what I've read, "Fuzzy" didn't go through the right channels to use other's content in the first place.
Again, enjoy the site that provides the entertainment and education value that appeals to you. Don't immaturely bash the work of other public institutions and the hard working people that are involved. It reflects poorly on you.
I have been following this for the last couple of days and it's very obvious that the same 6 people keep posting the same comments, over and over. From what I've heard, the MCCTV posted material before they asked permission to do so, and now that their hand was slapped by a large media conglomerate, they are pleading their case to the public. Who in their right mind thinks that bullying a large corporation like The Tribune Company/WGN will make any impact whatsoever?
This is less about the MBC, a 25 year institution that has a very large online presence and has been serving Chicago and beyond for years. It appears that "Fuzzy" started their site without any cooperation from the broadcast community, and now when it's too late, they are acting like the victim. No one has the right to display the content that belongs to others, especially when they don't go through the proper channels from the beginning. No one owes you or your website anything.
Not sure why you have made Bruce DuMont out to be the bad guy here. He has built and incredible institution that is respected both in Chicago and nationally. I have attended MBC events and am a member of their online community. I have also visited your website and found it fun and entertaining, but your bashing is unwarranted and mean-spirited and must be coming from within your organization.
I'm trying to understand your criticism regarding the home page of the MBC's website. On their main page, they have a clip of "Roseanne" which premiered 20+years ago this month, 40 Years of The Brady Bunch, the 50 Year Anniversary of The Twilight Zone, etc.
They also talk about a release party event they had with the US Postal Service and the Nielsen Company for the commemorative television stamps that were released this summer. You can view the top moments in political history, documentaries on Civil Rights, the Vietnam War etc. In December, they are honoring a Chicago legend, Bill Jackson with a public event. Their Radio Hall of Fame event is in November.
I'm sorry, but is there something wrong with the historical nature of what they are doing as a museum? I'm sorry, but the entire world isn't clamoring over promotional footage from Channel 32 in the 1980s.
"Fuzzys" homepage talks about a "Channel5 Meditation Station Sign Off" (with comments by who appears to be the gentlemen commenting in this article), some White Sox footage that I'm sure the MLB would love to shut down, "The Baby Doll Polka Club" and more. You talk about the MBC's fundraising, it's public programs and online store. They are still running an educational museum online. "Fuzzy" is asking for $10-$30 donations to sponsor videos. It appears that only 5 videos are sponsored, 2 by the same person. Where does that money go?
If you like the content on one website versus another, visit the site you enjoy. Your bashing is nothing short of immature. This isn't about one museum over another. From what I've read, "Fuzzy" didn't go through the right channels to use other's content in the first place.
Again, enjoy the site that provides the entertainment and education value that appeals to you. Don't immaturely bash the work of other public institutions and the hard working people that are involved. It reflects poorly on you.
d joseph - You're so right - if only fuzzy had asked permission of wgn first, everything would have been peachy. Everyone knows how gracious and easy a company like Wgn and Tribune is to deal with, so it would have been a snap. Especially since he was starting something from the grass roots level, they would have been particularly understanding.
Wgn loves to say Yes. Yes, yes, yes. They aren't one of the most rigid and controlling places to work for in Chicago, with their employees often afraid to talk to outsiders. They're wonderfully accomodating especially when it comes to granting a diehard fan the right to show 30 year old clips of their work. (and they are REALLY helpful when the person isn't connected and doesn't have a big name and family history)
There was a rumor going around that Wgn used to give the other tv stations a hard time about using their Cubs highlights for their 10pm news, which would mean they didn't even understand Fair use, but that was just a dirty, untrue rumor. No idea how something that unbelievably false could have been started, as if many employees had experienced that treatment. It's crazy.
Some spoilsports have also said that a place like the Chicago History Museum often pulls their hair out over how rigid and difficult Wgn and the Tribune are when they are trying to get permission for filmmakers to use some of their Wgn newsreel collection - often making the person wait months and months after a simple request, but this has proven to be just another unsubstantiated rumor.
Some nattering nabobs of negativism have said that folks at WGN NEVER answer their phones nor do they return calls/e-mails - but that's just crazy talk.
I can't understand why fuzzy didn't just ask permission before he created his site that's a loving tribute to the past of Wgn and all the other local stations.
the world may never know.
To d joseph and DueceBrumont,
I really need to inform you guys as to what really happened and what's going on!
In regards to WGN clips that were removed...Bruce DuMont notified WGN. He wanted WGN to have them removed! He had wanted ALL the stations to freeze Rick out! Before that, nobody said anything! Larry Potash showed the MCCTv during a WGN Morning News segment a little while back. Several WGN Employees have expressed appreciation for what he's done. It's hard for me to believe that upper mgmt at WGN didn't know about the site!
The Tribune Co. (WGN-TV's parent company) fired off an angry letter to Rick insisting that the WGN clips removed, otherwise the Tribune would use legal action. They gave Rick a couple of days. They also had angry words calling Rick a "thief" and a "pirate." This doesn't sound like a professional legal firm that sticks to the facts. They were insulting Rick intentionally!
How do I know these things?
The MCCTv has informed several people that they can PROVE the above mentioned.
In addition, I saw ALL the documents. What WGN, The Tribune Co., and Bruce DuMont did / wanted to do-I SAW the letters with MY OWN baby blues. (For the record, I am NOT an employee of the MCCTv. I am however, a fan who appreciates what they do!
Now the MBC...
They're not doing so well right now. While you can see several videos on their Archive page, you can't walk into the MBC and look at broadcast artifacts. They have NO home...alot of items are in various warehouses! What good does that do?
Mr. DuMont decided to go on a promise from Blago and then have the museum built without the promised cash in his hand.
That was a stupid move!
You NEVER, EVER take a politician on just a promise! No matter WHAT party he /she belongs to! You DON'T DO ANYTHING until you have the cash in hand! While yes, Blago did make a promise and then broke it, Mr. DuMont made a very serious mistake...and should have known better!
The point that WGN loves "yes"...
That's BS! Anybody who has posted WGN material other than WGN on You Tube were forced to have it taken down!
The "fair use" was designed so that stations could air material from different network or station WITHOUT asking permission. They can do this as long as any video is brief and at source of the video is credited. Otherwise it would take days or even weeks before permission would be granted.
The MCCTv does exactly the same thing. It doesn't air entire shows, only brief vignettes and then credits the station they came from! Nothing different from the TV stations! And by the way, several other sources use "fair use" on their internet pages! So really why should Rick have to ask?
The MCCTv uses home recordings off Beta and VHS tape. Therefore, WGN doesn't have to provide the museum with anything!
While WGN has an "exclusive agreement" with the MBC, It's a good thing that the MBC doesn't have an exclusive agreement with WGN. Otherwise, they wouldn't have any equipment, pictures, etc., from the other stations in town.
Annd as far as WGN reaching Rick...they haven't! he hasn't received any word from them once they he took the clips down! That was April, 2008! Let's see...18 months?
And as far as the comment that there are only a few that keeps posting on various sites...obviously YOU READ them.
So what's the problem with us posting?
Rick isn't trying to harm the MBC in any way. Or WGN for that matter! And neither than I. Yes, WGN has a right to say what can and cannot be used by anyone. But why must they be the only station in town who has to block Rick from posting short video clips! The Museum is a recognized non-profit! It's ALL LEGAL! There are more than one built museum on this planet. Why can't there be two?
Since MBC is a true non-profit,they should be proud to welcome another non-profit!
And last but not least-I am NOT an employee of the MCCTv. I am a friend of Ricks and I support his efforts!
Now everyone knows the truth! :)
"The MCCTv should have asked first and now WGN has a right to be stubborn forever" seems to be the new front in this argument.
Are you even aware of how YouTube handles rights issues? Basically, they allow everything up and won't take videos down unless the rights holder makes an official request. I am sure WGN is aware of this, since they must have a dedicated team of people who make this request daily (and yet take advantage of this in their news shows with the work of others). It's how things work in the 21st century. As someone said, you can't put the information age genie back in the bottle.
Here's the timeline:
- The MCCTv had WGN videos up.
- The MBC "told on them" by writing an impassioned letter to all area stations to deal with this perceived threat (to the MBC).
- WGN is the only one who responded (with lawyers no less).
- The MCCTv respectfully took the videos down.
- The MCCTv worked hard to overcome the issues mentioned by the lawyers.
- WGN hasn't re-engaged in the conversation in over a year.
Is there some sinister behind-the-scenes plot with a bunch of "Chicago" type stuff happening at WGN? I hope not, but I have a feeling we'll never know.
The point is "Too bad, you had your chance" is not a mature position for the World's Greatest Network to take. It's not in anyone's interests (besides the MBC), to continue with a "take my ball and go home" attitude.
All the MCCTv wants is a dialogue and a willingness to cooperate. There is no ill-will here, unless is comes from the spin control department of the MBC. They seem to actively take an interest in hurting an organization whose mission is historical preservation just to remain the only game in town, and that is not going to change their reputation in the industry they say they represent.
The MBC should have nothing to do with this situation. If this issue brings up criticism of the MBC from many directions, they should take a hard look at themselves and try to grow from the experience.
There are a lot of people who like seeing commercials,bumpers movie intro's and station I.D's from the 1970's and 1980's. MCCTv provides a excellent service and has uncovered stuff from WGN and other Chicago stations that would probably had been lost if not for Rick "FUZZY". As far as donations go and where the money goes,It is "VERY" expensive preserving this material,VCR'S(VHS and BETA),computer equipment, software,enhancers,DVD recorders,media,purchasing old tapes,you may have to buy 50 tapes to find 1 or 2 that has anything good on it. I would think WGN would be flattered that MCCTV is working hard to preserve their glorious history. WGN is a icon,a pioneer in superstations. They don't seem to have this material. MCCTv is growing everyday by leaps and bounds. Rick preserves this material as a labor of love and his enthusiasm is why MCCTv's following has grown in a short period of time and will continue to grow.