Aldermen Propose 8:30 p.m. Curfew for Kids 12 and Under

Yes! It's more of the dreaded NANNY STATE gubbmint trying to tell errr kids what to do and think! Ya let these damned dirty worthless bureaucrats git their grimy hands on kids, and next thing you know, a plurality of voters will be pulling the lever for a DEMOCRAT in a presidential election! I mean can you imagine?

(Disclaimer: The above is more a dig at wingnuts than the article here.)

How effective is the current curfew?  Is it enforced?  I personally know of kids under 17 out past curfew and there's never been a question from authorities.  The police have better things to do.

As others have pointed out, this is more an issue of parents not being responsible -- or, to be blunt, being blatantly stupid.  That 9 year old who was shot over the weekend was up and outside at 2:30 in the morning.  WTF? 

The thing about the curfew isn't that the police are necessarily out doing sweeps, but if you have ANY contact with the police after curfew they have a basis to remove you from the street. That's how my curfew arrests all went down . . .

Julie Woestehoff of Parents United for Responsible Education questioned the possible rollback as not being the right move. “The city needs to give children more things to do rather than force them into confinement," she said.

The Chicago Park District provides a plethora of activities for kids.  Seriously, what type of activities could be offered to kids under 12 at 8:30 or 9:00 p.m.?  Most kids that age should be in bed by that time.

That's what I was thinking too. It seems like the curfew makes sense to me, if you're under 12 you can't be out on the streets without a parent present. And I don't know if I'm just from a small town or my dad told me lies, but growing up I was under the impression there was a curfew and it didn't harm me or my "rights" in any way.

Chicago D, president and CEO of Don't Listen to Stupid People said that (a) it is not necessary to provide "programming" after bed time. Kind of like the way some "kids" channels have mostly "adult" programming later in the evening, and (b) better parenting lesson one is to not let your young child out unsupervised after 8:30. Any questions?

Exactly; there's loads of kids on the South Side that you never see on the streets after dark (unless they're on the porch with their parents or something) because they have parents who actually give a damn. The parents who are letting their kids roam about at 10pm and later are going to continue not caring.

I'm sure you are correct about there being a lot of parents on the south side that are doing the right thing.  But you have to admit that many areas of the south and west sides have a much higher proportion of kids out and up too late than other areas.  That is precisely why the suggestion of the curfew is being made.

And, unlike many other posters here, I do see the problem as partly cultural. Economics and available resources are also contributing factors, of course, but to pretend there isn't a culture of neglect in some neighborhoods and family/friend circles is sticking your head in the sand.

I think the issue here is lax parenting (with some social/economic mixed in) rather than racial, but that's just me. Being a crappy parent isn't a *cough* "cultural" thing, and people who believe that it is are less likely to pay attention to the parents who are doing the right thing (or think it's an aberration) because it doesn't fit their perception of "how people in those areas act." Does that make sense?

You guys already covered this pretty well.  I guess I'd just add that I don't think bad parenting and abusive/neglectful parenting is limited to this particular area or culture.  I'm sure you can find the same problems in similar proportions in many other pockets of America populated by any number of racial and ethnic mixes.

To be honest, I wasn't aware that the word "culture" had such negative connotations in racial discussions.  Lesson learned, I suppose.

I don't like the fact that your implying I think the cultural problem is race or areas.  I think you can go to any area and race and find lots of bad parents.  Probably because a lot of parents now think they should be friends with their kids.  When I talk about cultural, I am literally talking about our entire society.  Yes, not everyone has this issue, but I believe these issues are more prevalent today than ever before.

Gotcha!

In that case I completely agree with you and I apologize; considering all the "code speak" and crap that slithers out of people's mouths in our city on a semi-regular basis my mind automatically interpreted your comment in a way that you probably didn't intend.

I don't disagree that there is a cultural issue, but I do disagree that "community leaders" ought to take the lead, and there should be a town hall and all that crap. It is just necessary to get the kids off the streets.

Gotcha.  I'd agree that the involvement of those folks would be pretty useless.  I like the idea of changing the culture, but really have no good ideas for making it happen.

3 thoughts- 1. How will they know if the child is under 12? Last I checked kids this age don't have ids. 2. How will the cops enforce this with any sort of legitimacy? 3. Why is it cops/governments job to rein in bad parenting?  Bad parenting is a cultural epidemic, and the only way to change that is to have cultural leaders instill better values in their followers.

Three thoughts: (1) if you look like you might be 11 or 13, we'll sort it out when your parents get to the station. (2) Legitimacy . . . is provided by just laws being enforced by law enforcement officers . . . so . . . what's your question? (3) It is not "reining in bad parenting" it is removing your little angel from the streets. Big difference.

1. Like they do with the 15 year olds that wander down my street at 1 in the morning. 2. To have any sort of legitimacy cops have choose to enforce it, see 1.  If they don't enforce it, it loses legitimacy, like other bad laws. 3. If your kid, under 12, is out wandering the streets without you past 11, you most likely are failing in some sort of way or another. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but you should control your kids, not the police.

Some people are good at identifying "potential" problems, some people are willing to sort out problems after they arise. I get your points, I just don't think they are particularly crucial. We do what we need to do, we fix what we need to fix.

Bad parenting is a cultural epidemic, and the only way to change that is
to have cultural leaders instill better values in their followers

That's some b.s. right there.

Your opinion is wrong.

*whoah*

About as informative and well thought out as your original post, no?  Great contributions, both of them...

What's BS, bad parenting being a cultural epidemic, or the way to fix it is to have cultural leaders instilling better values? 

What "culture" are you talking about?  Minority "culture"?

It's bullshit that any reference to culture is automatically assumed to be racist in nature.  See my below comment to Kaonashi.  It was directly referencing society as a whole.

It seems pretty obvious that you were using coded language, this story is about problems more specific to poor neighborhoods, and in Chicago's case mostly minority ones.  What cultural leaders of 'society as a whole' should be instilling better values in their followers......lol.  C'mon man..

Woah, we have a mind reader.  You obviously can tell whatever I am thinking.  Our society that loves reality TV surely doesn't use some of them as cultural leaders.  I'm sure no one bases their life choices on watching the Real Housewives of wherever, or sitcoms like Weeds, or sports stars like Brian Urlacher.  I'm sure there is plenty of shows where people see the parents being friends with their kids and think that's a great idea (Gilmore Girls).  Yes, all cultural leaders (people whom people look up to [real or fake]) are surely  only located in the minority communities.  Get your head out of your ass and stop making assumptions.  No one likes being told they are being racist by a "mind reader."

Your comment doesn't even make a lick of sense otherwise.  

"Their" cultural leaders?  Don't you mean "our cultural leaders"?.......oh that's right.  It was your statement that "their" cultural leaders needed to instill better values in "their" followers...so yeah, again, I'm wondering who these leaders are that you're talking about.

Didn't the kid from Gilmore Girls go to Harvard? Damn, you're point is made. Stupid-assed Gilmore Girls, destroying American culture.

I will say what you won't. This seems to be a bigger issue in poorer neighborhoods and neighborhoods that are primarily populated by minorities. Whether reverends and activists are the right people to change the culture is a different issue.

More than you can possibly know I hate to agree with Navin, but I think you meant "cultures" to be someone other than "all 300 millions of us."

Another mind reader.  Next time I mention culture I will be sure to say society's culture.  I had no idea mentioning culture had racial, socio-economic implications without stating a specific culture.  I thought when I mentioned it as itself it meant society.  While I appreciate the mind reading, I meant the later.  While you might think differently, I am the owner of my thoughts.  Arguing what you think I thought is pointless and asinine.

I think the problem is parents wanting to be friends with their kids, I believe it started with television, specifically shows like Gilmore Girls.  I believe when you are friends with your kids you lose your authoritative control of them.  Without that, your kids are probably running around late at night.  While having parents home (socio-economic issues) play a part.  I can assure you that there is an issue with kids out late in the burbs as well, that is why many communities have these curfews.

Yes. "Society" would be a more apt term than "culture" for what you are talking about.

So, you think Gilmore Girls was a societal game changer, huh? Not so sure about that one.

Also, having curfews in the suburbs and having 9 year olds shot in the yard at 3:20 a.m. in Roseland are not both caused by Gilmore Girls. I am POSITIVE that the man whose son was shot never, ever watched an episode of Gilmore Girls.

In any case, as you so eloquently put it, whatever.

I find it hysterical that Gilmore Girls has become a point of contention here.

Who are the cultural leaders of U.S. society as a whole anyway?

Movie stars? 

The answer is c) How about getting your head out of the "monolith" school of thinking?

ok, whatever...