Brizard Floats Pay Raise to Teachers In Exchange for Longer School Day, Year

I know my teacher friends spend a lot of time, energy and their own money on whatever the educational fad of the day comes out of the Board office. No, they don't have a lot of discretion on day-to-day activities.

Well, either they are lesson-planning, or they are not. If there is no discretion, they are implementing.

From what I know of my friends' classrooms, they have a lot of discretion on a day-to-day basis, but less in the expected learning outcomes.

I like that Lewis called for "better school days." I was under the impression that elementary teachers generally have significant discretion as to the day-to-day activity in their respective rooms. So, does that mean that teachers had the ability to have "better school days" and have not until their feet were to the fire? What does this mean?

The teachers are definitely going to come out of all this with a worse deal than they had before. However, I still have not seen any proposal from the teachers that is about the kids rather than the union members. This "better school days" thing seems hollow to me. What is the teacher's argument for continuing as we are?

keep in mind kieller that we don't pay into social security - all we have is the pension, which the city continually does not contribute to and which I will be contributing to in MUCH greater proportion of my take home than any MF payin into SS in the years to come.  Also, I have to question your math work there on the 2% raise for an extra  270 hours per year.  2% of anyone's salary with CPS divided by 270 is a pittance even Oliver Twist himself wouldn't take.

My issue is not with the longer school day, or even the fact that I won't be paid for it.  I'm paid well.  However, a longer school day means a lot more work for a elem. teacher than a HS one.  Rahm is pitting the K-8 against the 9-12 teachers with this superficial initiative that is more a placation of the streeterville tourists and paranoiacs, a boon to the policia,  than a tested measure to raise student aptitude.

 a placation of the streeterville tourists and paranoiacs, a boon to the policia,  than a tested measure to raise student aptitude.

I'm not saying Royce is wrong, but I am also not saying I have any idea what that is supposed to mean. Placation of Streeterville tourists, paranoiacs etc.? How about this: CPS parents want more in-class time. They are not satisfied with the schools. Think of it as trying to placate them.

I'm assuming royce's point could be paraphrased as, "Adding 90 minutes to the school day won't have any meaningful impact on the quality of the education that CPS students ultimately receive." I'd really like some more info behind that because, on its face, it sounds absolutely fucking idiotic.

Even when I try to be sympathetic to the CTU I end up just shaking my head and wondering how they've made it this far . . .

Which really is a shame, because every (well, except one, I guess) CPS teacher I've ever met has seemed to have been pretty... not insane.

Yes. I have had CPS teachers explain to me that their concern about more "accountability" is not that they were unwilling to work, but that the "leadership" would not be able to actually evaluate them, etc. That strikes me as a very reasonable concern. Especially from people doing great things at bad schools in bad neighborhoods. Then I hear some idiotic Karen Lewis quote and . . . I hate CTU again.

The math is simple, using CPS's own numbers:
Starting Salary /(# of weeks * days in week * hours per day), this of course doesn't include extra time for people that care about their job, but no salary job does...
50577/(40weeks*5days*6.25hours)=40.46
50577*1.02/(40weeks*5days*(6.25+1.5hours))=33.30

I didn't say that is a stark pay per hour decrease, I was just comparing to another profession's pay per hour.

Also, I agree that your 7% pension might not be there, but those of us that pay the social security tax shouldn't bank on that either if you are under 35.  That's 6.2% (lowered to 4.2% for this year due to a 1 year tax break expiring in Jan. supposedly).

I've been hearing "it's not going to be there when you turn 65" since I was under 35. There's an easy fix--drop the cap where everyone in the US pays SS only on the first $110K they make annually.

I'll believe ss reform will happen when I see them put out any other meaningful tax, or healthcare reform.  Right now, I think its best for everyone to bank on it not being there.

Or means test when it gets to be time to collect. Or both.

Nor is it for other professions, and all jobs suck.  I have a lot of respect for teachers and many of my friends.  Just a quick perspective based on "salary" work hours.  According to the CPS HR website, the starting salary of all teachers is 50577 with 7% pension.  At the hours that they base that on 40 weeks and 6.25 hours, that is ~40 an hour.  Increasing the school day while giving them a 2% raise is ~33 an hour.  Yes a huge decrease.  But now compare that to an mechanical engineer, which is considered a higher paying job.  The average pay in chicago is 52546, give them 7% for bonus and matching 401K (a little high most likely) and 40 hour work week.  That is ~27 an hour and the retirement money isn't guaranteed and for the most part, the benefits are probably a little worse.  They also don't have an opportunity for a summer job.

We already know you're an idiot. You can stop now.

How am I an idiot, because I can analyze numbers?

Because you think teachers only work when they're in the classroom.

No I am not that stupid, I'm sure many teachers log extra hours.  But so do nearly all salary jobs.  But they log a majority of their extra hours for just 9 months, most jobs do it all year.

Hey Kieller.  I don't think of our retirement is guaranteed. I think it's hanging by a thread.  Though we have been making our payments, Chicago really hasn't since 1995.  When I started teaching in Chicago in 2001 it was 95% funded.  It is now down to 58%.  In Springfield, they are making plans to stick us into a 401K.  It's not bad if you have social security, but a 401K will put us completely at the mercy of the market. 

As for the hours that teachers work compared to other professions, I saw the stats in the Wall Street Journal this year.  http://blogs.wsj.com/economics...

I think that's pretty average.  

This seems like a reasonable deal.

Wait, so...you agree to add the equivalent of an entire extra work day onto your week, and in exchange, we'll give you half of the cost of living raise you were contractually obligated to receive in the first place? Yeah, great deal.

Work closer to an actual 40 hour work week for only 9 months a year. Yeah, I would find that reasonable.

I was wondering how much actual time this adds to a teacher's work day, as opposed to just class time. You have to have lesson plans for that extra 90 minutes. And you have to grade papers churned out in that extra 90 minutes. I'll bet they're adding about 3 hours of work to the work day for half of the raise they're supposed to get.

You know, a teacher's workday doesn't end as soon as their students leave school. A 60-70 hour workweek isn't unheard of from teachers that really care about their students--or about the same number of hours grading, giving feedback, meeting with students, and constructing lesson plans as the number of hours spent in the classroom.

I'm not unsympathetic to that. But when you look at the issue from the perspective of bringing the CPS day length up to parity with most other school districts, that position falls apart pretty fast.

And I'm not against extending the school day. I'm also not against year-round schooling. What I do take offense to is the idea that teachers clock in when their first class begins, clock out when their last class ends, and don't work as hard as those with 'real' jobs in the private sector. I feel it creates a polarizing argument that contributes to the anti-union demonization on one end, and the bullshit union positions at the cost of students on the other end.

Oh don't get me wrong: I'm not one of those "You only work 5 hours a day!" people. Not at all, not by a long shot.

My only point is that in light of the fact that CPS days are meaningfully shorter than many (most?) other districts, pretty much all the arguments against extending the day disintegrate. Put another way, to the argument "90 additional minutes of classroom time equals more than 90 additional minutes of work", my response wouldn't be, "Yeah, but look at us non-union folks and the hours we put in, ya goons!" Instead, my response would be more along the lines of, "Yeah, that sucks, but... well, too bad. It's time to welcome your district into the norm." 

Union/anti-union's got nothing to do with my sentiment; it's just an issue of CPS just being well below the norm -- as compared to other school systems.

For some odd reason the "like" function doesn't work for me on Chicagoist, but I "like" this. People who think teaching is an easy job (a) do not remember their own schooling, and (b) are idiots. By the same token, people who think the status quo is working are crazy. It just seems as if there is no good faith common ground or trust at this point.

Never mind that they have to basically be daytime parents for a lot of parent's special little brats.

That's called the job, and they spend four solid years, plus student teaching figuring out that *GASP* there will be kids there! If they don't like "special little brats" teaching was probably a poor choice.

"CTU spokeswoman Stephanie Gadlin said in a statement union President Karen Lewis does not want to be part of a publicity stunt."

Oh, sweet Jesus, yesterday she demanded that CPS stop doing business with banks that hold mortgages that may be in foreclosure. Today she does not want to be part of a publicity stunt. Teachers, FYI, the more of Karen Lewis taxpayers see and hear, the worse for you. Jackie Vaughn she ain't.

You know, D, CTU is fighting an uphill battle with media image, and both Brizard and the mayor know it. - Chuck

Too many CTU wounds are self-inflicted. They are starting this fight with poor leadership making stupid demands. Brizard is disturbingly easy to take shots at, based on his pay and apparent lack of performance in Champai . . . no wait, Rochester (same size city, right?) and these brain donors are making demands about banks. Just terrible.