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Englewood residents held a demonstration yesterday on 74th and Green, protesting the city's lack of effort to curb drug dealing and prostitution in the area. And the Defender reports that Englewood has some of the worst air quality in the city and the highest incidence of lead-poisoning cases of any neighborhood in Chicago — 17.3 percent of kids tested in 2003 had elevated levels.
Yesterday's protest was organized through the Chicago branch of ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now), whose members say the police and their alderman, the 17th Ward's Latasha Thomas, ignore them. Organizer William Stone told the Trib that "we make police reports and we want them responded to." Seems to be a common problem on the South Side these days.
"Generations of Success Rooted in Englewood" by David Schalliol.
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Didn't they just hold a protest essentialy asking the cops (whites) to get out after a kid was shot after running away from cops and waving a gun?
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Maybe people will help out if they feel half way safe canvasing your neighborhood and trying to make inroads out of poverty there.
I still haven't seen any of the hundreds of storefront church pastor's protesting the thugs IN the community; the same pastors who will protest any white cop who makes an arrest in the same neighborhood. When people get their priorities straight, maybe they can find ways to save the community.
Considering it will be all leveled if the Olympics happen I don't think the city really cares anymore.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Yeah why should people expect to have police protect them and treat them fairly at the same time. Oh and regarding the pastors I've seen plenty of anti-crime marches and vigils covered on the news over the years. Maybe you just prefer to view people from these parts of the city a certain way.
Excelllent, just what the Black community needs! Another protest of “No Justice No Peace”
And you may not see a store front or foundation to five story up Pastor protesting cops or thugs, but they all will be “representing” through the hood in the finest European cars, with their hand out for their Daley bread.
But who cares as Matty is right any way
p.s Oh and is that what ACORN says? How enlightened of them. Some one should smack them upside the head with a certain Taylor Branch book and I'm talking the hard copy.
I think what they are asking for is quality police protection without police abuse. Is that so wrong, spook?
Asking for more police protection while also asking for more police accountability are not contradictory proposals.
What is so hard about this?
There's a difference between asking for accountability and creating near riot levels of anger over justifiable shootings and/or arrests by police.
You see, when the cops do it RIGHT, the community gets all up in arms about the cops using excessive force on blacks, placing drugs in the community, setting up people, etc...So, if the community would let people do their jobs, maybe other people such as cops, real community activists, real pastors, would come over to try and help out. But as they see it now, they will only get lambasted for trying to help.
also guest #1's statement about not protesting the gangs in the community is about as wrong as it gets. Happens all the time - usually after a shooting.
Englewood and other communities like austin and kenwood deserve police protection and protection from police. If that is having your cake and eating it too then let them eat cake.
Matty
Lets just tell the truth o.k?
No body cares about “them”, not Alderman, the pastors, the Mayor, their “God”, Jesse Jackson, Acorn, Arnie Dunkin. etc,
Their protest amounts to nothing, except local news color filler.
I’m just suggesting that they consider either a new approach
Or resorting to approaches that have worked in the past.
Unless they put down those bibles, walk away from those “pastors” and turn those TVs off
For all practical intent they are done in this town
I agree on that point, spook - sort of.
I think what is and has been working is an emphasis on education, funding for schools, crack downs on gang activity and building trust with the community between police and residents. It's been working for years now. I mean, whatever happened to the CAPS program. Is that still around?
Unfortunately, with regard to my Olympics post, it seems one main that the city has been reducing crime in chicago is by indirectly kicking poor people out to the surrounding suburbs and/or out of state completely (via tiffs, redevelopments, eminent domain, etc...). I'm worried that with this tacit policy in place the police won't have to care much more about these neigborhoods anymore as the problem will become "self-correcting" by pricing people out of the city and/or hoping that the criminals will find it easier to operate in smaller towns with less money to fight crime.
In the mean time, people will organize and protest in the same way that they have for years and years. Each one, however, will be smaller than the one before until it is a non-issue for the city of chicago.
With the housing markets the way they are now, however, that plan might backfire (who's going to move to englewood or austin for a condo conversion?) and the city is going to have to find new, healthy and proactive ways to help these communities lest they see more problems there than there are now.
Won't there always be poor people and ghettos? If everybody was given $20,000, there will still be poor people. I don't get it. Always has been, always will be. Neighborhoods have always changed too. Where the ghettos are now, used to be where anybody who was somebody, down indiana between 18th down into 47th and hyde park area, lived. Before that it was immigrants, now a lot of it is black, projects, ghetto etc.. . Neighborhoods change, wherever black people say 'we were here first'- they really weren't, same with most other ethnic groups, there was another group in that neighborhood at some point, depends how far back you want to go.
So, I really don't by any argument that says somebody or the city is 'pushing people out'. Places and neighborhoods have never stopped changing, and they continue to change today.
>>It seems one main that the city has been reducing crime in chicago is by indirectly kicking poor people out to the surrounding suburbs and/or out of state completely (via tiffs, redevelopments, eminent domain, etc
Well I'll try not to comment on the morality of it, but yest, that is exactly how it appears to me too.
Than again, who in the world could justify the concentrated poverty of Englewood? Not soooo long ago that whole neighborhood was something other than desperately poor and black, and back then it didn't have anywhere near these levels of crime.
Englewood is truly hard to discuss with people. People like me, who say the Federal government is a huge part of the problem with public housing, can't explain Englewood so well, what with its lack of public housing.
Nope. Englewood is just plain poor. And violent. From the police perspective, a fairly popular perception is that Englewood has more "mentals" than any other police district in the city. From my experience, that is just about accurate.
So you have a neighborhood where the police don't live, where the lawyers and teachers don't live, where really none of us live. And somehow the police are supposed to go in there and fix everything that's wrong?
No way. They'd be better scattering the residents of that neighborhood to the four corners of the world, bulldozing the whole thing, and starting over. Perhaps with an eye towards not concentrating so many poor and directionless souls so close together.
"No way. They'd be better scattering the residents of that neighborhood to the four corners of the world, bulldozing the whole thing, and starting over. Perhaps with an eye towards not concentrating so many poor and directionless souls so close together."
Yeah, but all that is is displacement. People will just move to maywood or harvey. Then they'll be out of site and out of mind. Doesn't really fix anything now does it?
and i apologize for the "they" comments. I mean people who live in englewood, austin or lateral areas specifically.
Naw Matty, by "scattering the residents of that neighborhood to the four corners of the world", I literally meant at least "scattering the residents of that neighborhood".
Some one should smack them upside the head with a certain Taylor Branch book and I'm talking the hard copy.
Some should whack Spook upside the head with my copy of Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky
Some should whack Spook upside the head with my copy of Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky
Someone should whack Kevin up side the head with Spook and Alinsky.
How many times have I read that the war on drugs is racist. That we are locking up these poor minorities for drugs for no reason.Now some residents want more drug dealers locked up. No wonder police are miserable they cant win. I bet its the poor SOB working a police car in Englewoods fault that the air quality is bad and that the kids have elevated lead levels. The bad police are causing the pollution and force feeding the children lead paint. Maybe the residents need to look at there children who are the ones selling drugs and do something about it. Maybe just maybe you tell the little guy not to eat paint chips. Maybe a little tough love when your kid is a punk instead of its everyone elses fault. Dont let your kids sell drugs and dont ignore it if your nieghbor sells drugs. A hell of alot more money for social services goes into englewood than money comes out in taxes and it is all wasted until the residents themselves deciede enough is enough. Hopefully these residents want real change and are ready to WORK FOR THAT CHANGE.
Hopefully these residents want real change and are ready to WORK FOR THAT CHANGE.
As hard as you work for the services you receive?
Matty
lower Crime isn’t the only “thing” indirectly linked to poor people being forced into the Apartiedville of the South Suburbs. Notice how the schools that improve academically are those that get the extra funding and happen to be in gentrifying neighborhoods.
And you speak of an “emphasis of police working to build trust” in the hood, yet you don’t know if CAPS still exist. Police only build trust with those part of the gentrifying movement. Honest cops will tell you that the department is the Daley’s army of Gentrification. It’s the new comers that attend CAPS meetings where they let police know what home or condo to protect.
And let’s not leave out Daley’s “reconstitution” of local schools that force those “none achieving” students- under 16 -and their families out of the neighborhood.
And you ask “who is gonna buy an Englewood (next to the University of Chicago!) or Austin (next to Oak Park!) Conversion?” Check out both of those neighborhoods during the day. Those condos are not cheap. Heck I know U of C professors living on 63 and Blackstone. Yea it may not be white yuppies now, but honestly Black Buppies are often equally as uncaring and sometimes more so.
As to your comment that “people will organize and protest in the same way that they have for years and years. Each one, however, will be smaller than the one before until it is a non-issue for the city of Chicago.”, this is blatantly false and a prefect example of why liberalism is moral cowardly equivocation. I don’t mean to be insulting but it’s important to be honest, if things are gonna change
Yes “they” have been organizing and protesting in the same way for years, which is why things have only gotten worse for poor folks. Their bankrupt leaders only use half of the model. Protest were never meant to be a media event onto themselves, but a tool leading to a much bigger event
Folks really need to start thinking critically and analytically or they will be ethnically/economically cleansed right out the doors of Chicago. I’m just saying is all
I'm with Spook to a point, much more so than the rest of those with quasi-liberal talking points. What I'm not with is the idea that the po pos is Daley's gentrification army. It isn't. They do not like Daley in any way, shape or form. Why? Because they - the po pos - are working class. They are getting priced out of the city too. They will not live in Englewood, nor should they. But for people coming onto the job, how are they supposed to afford what's left of the Southwest Side? Have you looked at the prices of homes in Mount Greenwood, West Beverly and Morgan Park? They're not falling, and the reason is because the po pos have to have somewhere to live in the city limits. And because of that, those prices have risen and are not susceptible to the current downturn. As far as ethnically-cleansing neighborhoods, I have to say you're all off base. It's not a concerted effort by anyone when land is in the hands of private entities. Note that while the areas of the former sites of the infamous CHA high-rises may look pretty, they're still housing 1/3 of the people who lived there, and another 1/3 of them are subsidized so that they are affordable, and the other 1/3 is market rate. I'm just saying is all.
Hey spook that area around 63rd and blackstone is getting real nice and its very expensive. The police do hate Daley though ask any of them how long they have to wait for a new contract. Most cops hope Daley meets bill wirtz real soon. The reason for gentrification is alot of people want to be near downtown now. Work or play downtown is happening now and the areas in the city with easy acceses are costing more.
Spook: Do you even know any cops?
You really think the cops are working that hard to price themselves out of Chicago?
Do you actually believe what you write?
Don't worry: Pretty soon the cops, along with most working class people, won't be able to afford to own in this city anymore, and Chicago will continue its longstanding effort to follow the example set by NYC.
Guest 22
You’d be surprised at the type of community a Spook keeps.
Heck I even know -probably- Chicago's only Conspiracist Theory Cop. Who gave me my only copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" I kid you not! :-)
And as far as all "Five-O" not liking Daley, This is the importance of critical reflection Guest 20. Many people are in Daley’s army for many different reasons. And many of those soldiers hate him, they just don’t have other options at any given moment. I think it would be safe to say that many cops have more in common with those that they "police", as oppossed to those that serve, which is why honest and socratic dialogue is so important especially in these times
Guest #20, I can add to or subtract from a few things you write:
>>What I'm not with is the idea that the po pos is Daley's gentrification army.
Absolutely 100% correct more or less. Its not the police driving poor people out. Its prices and government subsidies. Here are a few things that used to be in the south loop/near south side that are no longer there:
Numerous SROs in the area of Roosevelt and State/Wabash/Michigan. A high rise section 8 building at 7th or 8th and State. Soon, the Pacific Gardens Mission. Completely crime infested "senior citizens" CHA buildings at 20th and State and 20th and Clark, each of which had numerous shootings until each year until they were completely emptied. The trick is, government can add something relatively positive (say, a police station at 18th and State, or extending the coverage of the 1st Police district from 18th street south to Cullerton or Cermak), and government can subtract something relatively negative (say, by emptying the infested "senior citizens" CHA buildings at 20th and State and 20th and Clark). They can change school boundaries, add nice parks, train stops, all kinds of things. All of this happened.
And sometimes, you just need that first trigger in desirable real estate to start events in motion.
It sure as hell was not the CPD that contributed anything significant to the gentrification of the south loop/near south side, nor Wicker Park, Bucktown etc. In some cases they contributed (some more than others), but in no case was it a major factor in the overall trend.
>>It isn't. They do not like Daley in any way, shape or form. Why? Because they - the po pos - are working class. They are getting priced out of the city too.
That, but not just that. They also deal with a completely corrupt leadership imposed on them by Daley and co. Anyone think Cortez Trotter has a college degree yet, though its required for anyone else now to receive a promotion? Anyone ever think twice about Cline pleading the 5th in a Grand Jury 20 years ago? Hanhardt? Nobody could rationally justify more than 5 of several dozen in "exempt" ranks in the CPD, but the press in Chicago doesn't really ask for justifications. The police are disgruntled for every reason possible. Incompetent OPS, horrible hiring and promotion standards. Completely incompetent political bosses. You name it, but its not just pay.
>>They will not live in Englewood, nor should they. But for people coming onto the job, how are they supposed to afford what's left of the Southwest Side?
Suggestion: get 50 of your closest friends from the academy, and make an agreement to target and buy in a very enclosed area close to the edge of the ghetto. Nothing is going to make a ghetto become a not-ghetto than 50 young police officers moving into 3 or 4 blocks of single family homes. I'm not a city employeee, but I'll sign on at #51 if its east of the Ryan and north of 60th street.
>>Have you looked at the prices of homes in Mount Greenwood, West Beverly and Morgan Park? They're not falling, and the reason is because the po pos have to have somewhere to live in the city limits. And because of that, those prices have risen and are not susceptible to the current downturn.
If anyone wants to really see something crazy, compare prices of homes in Mt. Greenwood (60655) to prices of homes in north Beverly (the northernmost part, with the mansions on triple lots, just south of the Dan Ryan Woods). Architecturally significant treasures on triple lots in north Beverly are in some cases 750K or lower. 2 or 3 bedroom Georgians in Mt. Greenwood are at 350K and higher.
>>As far as ethnically-cleansing neighborhoods, I have to say you're all off base. It's not a concerted effort by anyone when land is in the hands of private entities. Note that while the areas of the former sites of the infamous CHA high-rises may look pretty, they're still housing 1/3 of the people who lived there, and another 1/3 of them are subsidized so that they are affordable, and the other 1/3 is market rate. I'm just saying is all.
Here you are a bit off. 1/3 is the replacement number. They sure as hell aren't replacing all the units that were torn down in the Taylor, Taylor Extension or Stateway Gardens projects. Plus, if you suddenly start enforcing lease terms (no felons, work requirements) etc., you definitely cut down on a lot of the bad influences that result from the government subsidized housing. All in all, I think your 1/3 estimate is about 2-3 times too high. The Taylor ghetto is gone, and it won't be back anytime soon.