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An Aurora teen was sentenced to 27 days in jail for posting what prosecutors called threats on his MySpace page. The 15-year-old East Aurora High School student agreed to a plea bargain today, having already served that time. He was also sentenced to 21 days of electronic home monitoring and a year of probation, during which he's only allowed to use the internet for homework.
The teen's Feb. 17 post lists particular students he felt wronged him and then says: "think again about another person u hurt think about what could and might possibly happen u could get shot with a 9 mm in the head or back." The post also said the student would not hurt anyone. [Beacon News]
Poor taste, maybe, and if we could we'd criminalize the use of "u" instead of "you," but is that really the same as a threat? Initially, the police didn't even charge him with anything, and he said he was just blowing off steam.
The teenager's trial started March 12 and, through his attorney, he argued the posts were protected by his First Amendment rights."You absolutely don't have the freedom to say whatever you want," [Kane County Judge Wiley] Edmondson said Monday. [Daily Herald]
We get why schools have to take threats seriously, but holy overreaction, Batman.
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i don't even know what to say about this.
except maybe mediation by law enforcement is not your first stop in these situations. try parents--> mental health care provider instead. while this kind of post should be deeply, deeply troubling and taken VERY seriously in our current environment, you can't go around throwing kids in jail for hating their on peers and choosing really inappropriate language to do so. isn't that pre-crime?
i'm trying to think how many of my flippant statements could've landed me in jail circa high school.
of course, that was before columbine.
yeah, i don't even know what to say about this.
Students' constitutional rights have been severely limited by the Supreme Court, especially - if i remember my First Amendment class properly - in the situation of provocative speech. I'm very much a fan of keeping children safe while they learn and grow and all that good stuff, but at some point we have to realize that we're affecting their view of the political system and their role in it, setting them up for feeling like non-participants and enhancing the sense that a single actor can accomplish nothing in this system. It promotes the idea of the state as an oppressor, which it often is, but which is definitely something the state should not aim to instill in its youth.
I bet the kid is going to be much more balanced after this.
Seriously, it's like they're trying to make him hurt people.
"You absolutely don't have the freedom to say whatever you want," [Kane County Judge Wiley] Edmondson said Monday.
Wow. I get what the schools are concerned about and all, but coming from a judge, that's a pretty powerful statement that just SCREAMS for ACLU involvement.
Marcus; Sorry, but its true.
Regardless of how you feel about this case, there is a lot of well established law to back this up, maybe not the sentence however.
If you take it out of context like you just did, sure, sounds like a crazy kook judge, but if your talking about in public high school, then its true. Teachers can't say whatever they hell they want either.
Mepps, my personal confused reaction to this is, "But..he wasn't AT school...?" So this seems, yeah, overreaching. I do want kids to be safe. I'm just pretty sure throwing the kid in jail did not do him any good. No, they shouldn't threaten people. But why does he go to jail, when I (at 28) could write the same crap about my coworkers and be fine?
I'm not taking a big stance here, I honestly don't know all the legal background and statutes and all that. It just feels squicky, that's all.
Why didn't they call in the kid's parents, sit them down and say "We found this, it's alarming, what can we do about this?" Like sane, rational people.
Instead you get a kid who now has a record, has spent time in jail and likely been the target of harassment and ridicule at his school.
This moral panic bullshit over school shootings has got to hit a wall at some point right?
And of course, his fellow students are so much safer.
And that Judge apparently skipped the 1st amendment in law school. Easy to miss, it's in such small type.
The argument could easily be made that by venting about school, but not at school, his case is distinguished from the usual line of First Amendment-children at school case. Might get him nowhere though, I dont see a state appellate judge being convinced.
The First Amendment doesn't protect a "true threat", which is described as when a reasonable person making the statement would foresee that the statement would be interpreted by those to whom it is communicated as a serious expression of an intent to bodily harm or assault. (I stole that last part from some Judge, so don't blame me if it sounds wordy)
I just hope the kid's neighbor isn't a killer.
I'm all for First Amendment rights, but school shootings are an epidemic at this point. We might want to consider that perhaps in the past we haven't taken threats like this seriously enough.
The constitution isn't supposed to bend though, just because school shootings are a problem. There are other ways to handle the problem, ways that don't diminish the First Amendment (like what simple creature said, for starters).
If a student can even be considered a reasonable person, which is highly questionable (and im not sure its the standard applied in school related first amendment cases), its highly irrational and perhaps even schizophrenic to say in your myspace post "im not going to hurt anyone" or something to that effect, but then still be able to reasonable interpret that as a true threat.
GL:
Yeah, but this is a case of the letter of the law trumping good common sense. This kid would have been better off if his parents and the school had addressed this. This might have been a threat, though I'd argue it's not, but calling in the cops? Tossing a kid in jail? Silliness.
Marcus: Try yelling fire in a crowded theater and see where that gets you.
Or, publish a newsletter that accuses, without proof, that you think Mayor Daley cheats on his wife. Bonus points if you write an editorial saying how much you hate Daley and will do anything to see him destoryed. Then go and distribute your product.
I think you would very quickly find the (reasonable) limits of the 1st Amd.
Okay, I'll admit maybe I was over-reaching a bit myself, and I acknowledge that yes, there are precedents restricting certain forms of speech (such as slander and threats). I guess I have to say that I agree with the people who pointed out that throwing the kid in jail should not have necessarily been the punishment. There should be SOME sort of punishment but I think throwing a kid in jail for 27 days is an over-reaction. I'd be really interested to see if they did any kind of psychological evaluation on the kid to see if he was any real threat to anyone before they made the decision. School violence IS a big problem, these kind of threats need to be taken seriously, and if they can stop something before it happens, then we're all the better for it.
I'm with celerysalt here. There are any number of things I said during adolescence that could have gotten me thrown in jail by today's standards. Did I ever act on any of them? No. I was a hormonal, moody teenager blowing off steam. Just like millions of others. Read the journals and diaries of America's teens and I'm sure you'll find similar sentiments in a lot of them. If this kid really WAS a threat, then there are much better ways to deal with this than throwing him in jail. And if he's NOT, well, there are better punishments for this kind of lack of judgment than a month in jail.
@simplecreature: Why didn't they call in the kid's parents, sit them down and say "We found this, it's alarming, what can we do about this?" Like sane, rational people.
I agree with the sentiment, but all too often parents don't want to hear it, or refuse to believe that this is going on with their kid. I don't know if that was the case in this situation. I think what happened here was definitely over the top, but unfortunately parents cannot necessarily be relied on to address things like this with their kids.
@ml180
I agree with you there about parents not wanting to hear it. We've seen the "good kid" defense with the Crane Tech shooter. Certainly there are no easy answers here.
I figure it may have been a personal issue with the student and school counselor until the parents of the offended child got involved. That's the only time you will see something done about this. A student can say the same thing to a teacher and still be sitting in class the next day.
There is a novel by Joyce Carol Oates called "Big Mouth, Ugly Girl", I remember I bought it on tape and my son and I, when he was in middle school listened to it on car trips. It is written for the pre-teen, teen age group.
It should be required reading for kids today. It's a riveting story about what can happen when you are overheard making idle threats.
If this is another case of a helpless kid being bullied and everyone, teachers, parents, etc., turn a blind eye, then I feel for the kid.
There are still many, many adults who think that bullying is a harmless right of passage that certain kids need to go through.
Not true.
I think that all school should institute a zero tolerance policy for bullying.
why are so many of you under the assumption that this was an idle threat?
why does a 15 year old know what a 9mm is?
Hmmm...I think this is more something the school could have looked into and then determined through some meetings with the Dean/Counselors if they needed to get the authorities involved.
To share a story of over-reacting. My boyfriend's brother set off a "stink bomb" at his school. No bomb-like explosion, just some stinky product they had put together.
The school called his mother and told her he had "SET OFF A BOMB AT SCHOOL" and tried to expel him. They also had him illegally interrogated by police without a guardian. His mother managed to save him from expulsion by threatening to sue for their egregious rights violations.
you really think that was an overreaction in your boyfriend's brother's case?
You think a non-explosive "stink bomb" that makes things stinky is the same as setting off an explosive BOMB that kills people?
Sorry but that sounds completely insane to me. I mean...should putting soap in your school fountain be a felony? Letting loose 3 pigs marked "1" "2" and "4" punishable by death? Whats next?