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Man, it's been a rough summer for President Obama. As if the economy hasn't given him enough problems, the battle over health care reform has turned pretty damn nasty. And now a new poll by the Tribune and WGN shows that support for Obama in his co-home state is waning a bit. Of the 700 registered voters polled, 59 percent approved of the job he was doing, 33 percent disapprove, and eight percent had no opinion. Of course, the real split comes on how Obama's handled health care.
Voters were almost equally split over his handling of health-care reform -- 42 percent approving and 43 percent against. While 58 percent approved of his overall handling of the economy, 49 percent said his economic policies had little if any effect on the job picture. Forty-five percent thought his policies had at least some impact.
Of course, as the Trib points out, even though election results don't necessarily always mirror approval ratings, the results of the poll are pretty darn close to the 2008 election results in Illinios (62-37 for Obama over McCain). So...it's nothing really, new, is it? People are pissed about health care and Obama still has pretty good approval numbers even if they're lower than the astronomical approval rating he had before.
Unfortunately for Obama, there's even more trouble brewing on the horizon: cries of "SOCIALIST!" are ringing in the hills again as the nation prepares for Obama's speech to schoolchildren this Tuesday. Save your breath, people. Obama's not "indoctrinating" your children and school districts - including Chicago - are allowed to opt out. And Presidents speaking to schoolchildren has been done before, after all. Apparently, we were the only kid in the school whose father pulled them aside one day and told us, "Never, ever trust the government" before he put a tinfoil hat on our head.
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His approval rating should be in the toilet!
He promised health insurance reform & has totally blown it!
For some weird, unexplained reason, he has been totally detached from the public debate on this.
He appears to be scared of a fight.
He's a wimp & the Sociopath Party knows it!
Indeed.
60 seats in the senate (well, 59) and 80 seat majority in the house? And Obama is skittish about offending the tin-foil hat brigade with a speech to kids about how they should stay in school? Come now.
I do love the school speech crazies though. Considering how ill-informed these parents are, I don't think these kids can afford to miss one MINUTE of schoolin'.
Of course, the liberal answer for this would be that only 59% of Illinois citizens are smart, and the people who disapprove are stupid. Obama does nothing wrong, disapproval is solely due to brainwashing by the right wing and the inability to understand/comprehend Obama's brilliance.
I love listening to liberals crow about Birthers when they have a President who appoints Czars who are 9/11 Truthers (Van Jones), who think that animals should be able to sue humans (Sunstein), and who believe that government should be allowed to dictate family size (Holdren).
It's nice to see Drudge and Glenn Beck talking points regurgitated. Saves us the trouble of venturing to those dark and tin-foil hatted sections of the internet.
Are you capable of posting thoughts of your own? Or simply the latest slander slime from the Worldnetdaily or their ilk?
Really, do you think that Obama's poll numbers have dipped because of his appointment of minor cabinet officials (most of whom occupy positions the vast majority of Americans likely don't even know exist) and not the faltering economy and health-care shouting match.
A shouting match that the GOP has started largely to, yes, scuttle the Obama administration. Sacrificing health care reform to grind a political axe? That's the GOP!
Haha. Nice resposne and typical of liberals. Attack people who spread the message rather than addressing the quotes themselves. Never mind that we have a 9/11 Truther as one of the top advisers to the President. Why does he appoint them as Czars? Because he knows they could never make it through a Senate confirmation process for a formal cabinet position and he feels comfortable that the mainstream media will not look into their past.
I did not say his poll numbers were dropping because of the Czars. Your continual finger-pointing at a hapless Republican party who has only 40 seats in the Senate shows how clueless you really are. Do you ever think that maybe Obama is doing something wrong? Do you think maybe his philosophy of a larger state role in everyday functions are not popular with the American people? Could that be? No, of course not. You need a bogeyman so you blame Glenn Beck, who probably has an audience of no more than 4 million people in a nation of over 300 million.
People generally prefer limited govt in America, much as you might not like that. Not everybody shares your high opinion of government. However, considering that you people think that a government is capable of orchestrating the 9/11 attacks and covering it up, I can see why you think govt is capable of anything.
"...you people .."
You people? Who, exactly?
That's like saying all Republicans are nuts. They are not. Only the right-wing fringe.
Advice: Learn to think for yourself. Your statements sound as though they come straight from the "So you've decided to be a Bircher" brochure. (Bircher, not birther).
Steve Rhodes said it best: if he'd done what he said he was going to do, his approval would be up by a landslide. Instead, we get this Clintonesque triangulating bullshit, "compromise" with insurance companies and their tools in the Congress, and basically the same exploitative profiteering crap that costs money and lives labeled as reform.
This guy can't win for losing.
The hysteria he inspires among the far-right is really something that has never been seen before.
Now they're claiming that he's "coming after the children".
He wants kids to stay in school.
He wants health care to be accessible to everyone.
Jeez...what an asshole.
Yeah, poor Obama. Boo hoo hoo. Your response is typical. Everyone else is stupid, its not that Obama is doing anything wrong.
The backlash on his school speech is mainly due to items on a memo that was either sent out or was going to be sent out to the schools. They included instructions for kids to write about how they can help the President. Additionally, the memo suggested that teachers hang quotes from Obama speeches in the classroom. This is what people are objecting to, and I would think you people would reject a conservative sending a similar memo.
To the extent people don't think he should speak to the kids at all, I would actually agree with you that is wrong.
"This is what people are objecting to, and I would think you people would reject a conservative sending a similar memo."
Your apparently simple mind apparently thinks that all those who oppose right-wing lunacy are full-fledged liberals. Par for the course for the fringes, I guess--or for a party apparently dedicated to purging all but the most vocal ideologues out.
How wonderfully Stalin-esque of you all.
Go back to the books and learn some history before peddling this low-grade bullshit here.
The backlash on his school speech is mainly due to items on a memo that was either sent out or was going to be sent out to the schools. They included instructions for kids to write about how they can help the President. Additionally, the memo suggested that teachers hang quotes from Obama speeches in the classroom.
Really? Here's the memo: Press Release. I don't see any of that anywhere. Did you read it first? No, wait, that would eliminate the chance to make up stuff to shout at townhall meetings on this that aren't based on fact, sort of like the health care debate.
I'm sorry, you're lying.
There was no request to "hang quotes" in the lesson plan. The point that many nutters (and they are nutters) objected to, and the White House cravenly changed, was the suggestion that children write a letter to themselves about how they can help the president.
Something I did as a child when Bush 1.0 was in office, something EVERY child since, oh, the beginning of mass public education, has done at some point or another.
The nutters are shooting at anything that moves. My fear is that they will start to take that tactic literally.
I think it's safe to say you lost the debate.
Now, go back to where you came from.
"The hysteria he inspires among the far-right is really something that has never been seen before."
To be fair, you should go back and read or listen to what right wing nuts, including the John Bircher types and those who made the "Ballad of the Green Beret" a pop hit, said about FDR and Truman and JFK and Clinton (remember the black helicopters and the Vince Foster 'murder'?)
And nothing compares to the venom directed at Lincoln, even from those in solidly Union states.
That said, I wish someone would wack these right-wing nuts back into their mole hills. No, I don't worship Obama--I don't agree with everything he wants, and I have serious concerns about his tactics and priorities, and on national security I tend toward the smart AND hawkish, like Otto von Bismarck did so long ago in his drive to unify Germany--but Christ, the right wing doesn't even know what a fucking Nazi really is, or what socialism really means. It's disgusting at the way these paranoid nuts are distorting history and making it harder to restore strength to our country. (Hint: If you don't know who Otto Strasser was, you really don't know what National Socialism really meant, and you should simply stuff those cheap Nazi references up your ass.)
I am so disgusted at these debates--important debates we need to have--are hijacked by these shouting idiots from the fringes. I understand that everyone is anxious, as there is great economic turmoil and ongoing cultural and demographic changes. But we are fucking Americans. We are better than this. We don't need to be running around like little girls and boys scared of closet-residing monsters that do not, of course, exist.
Hey, welcome back matilda.
Yes, I agree with everything you say, I should have been more clear in my post. I wasn't really thinking about anything before my lifetime (or political lifetime).
There is no doubt that Obama is making mistakes...but seriously,I don't think that anything he does is going to be met with open arms. He's brought the issue of universal health care further than anyone so far, and for that we have to give him credit.
There are too many republicans who think it's perfectly ok that just the MAJORITY of the country has health care and the MAJORITY of those are 'happy' with their health care.
Beyond that, they could give a shit. So how do you try to change the health care system up against that attitude? There is nothing you can do or say because they just. don't. care.
This is why I feel he's fighting an uphill battle and that he's damned if he does or doesn't.
"This is why I feel he's fighting an uphill battle and that he's damned if he does or doesn't."
I agree. That's why I hope he has the smarts and guts to fight hard, even if that means he lasts only one term. I don't agree with all he wants to do, but at least he has a strong sense of the major problems.
That said, I wish he had balls enough to admit that, no matter what, and because of a long, 30+ history of bad fiscal management, significant tax increases are all but assured within the next 5-8 years, lest the USA really go broke. Obama still won't talk to me like I am a thinking adult. Instead, the screaming children (Nazi!! Marxist!!! Kenyan!!! Tree of Liberty!!!) types, as usual, get the attention.
Great thinkers such as MM can go pound sand. That said, the right-wing is so patriotic--they are the ones talking about revolution, after all, quoting the Declaration and talking about King George and taking states out of the union*--then they should put up or shut up. They should act like Minute Men before it is too late. The right wing is about more than hot air, right?
Right?
*The US so far has fought two wars that kept Texas in the Union, including one where the then Republic of Texas all but begged the US for help against a then-imperialistic Mexico (go ahead, look it up). If Texas really tries to leave again, I say nuke 'em and call it a day. I'm sick of fighting over Texas. Yeah, Austin will be gone, but Austin hasn't been all that great since the mid 1990s. We can spirit Willie Nelson out by helicopter, I guess.
Your comment on Texas? Brilliant.
The GOP is, at this point, effectively leaderless. It's a party governed by volume, not by veracity. Any time the party lets people like Beck and Limbaugh and Malkin start setting the agenda it means that the leadership is in disarray. The purpose of those creeps is to drum up the base, not set policy. When they are in the driver's seat, well, see just how shrill the debate has become.
Small-government, libertarian-leaning, Goldwater conservatives have been driven from the party since Reagan. What you have now is an up for grabs leadership in a party filled with people who think that Facism(sic)=Communism=Progressive=Liberal=Obama=Hitler. That's terrifying.
I'd almost feel bad for the republicans who are looking around the Party of Lincoln and realizing just how bad things have gotten. But then, this is all a direct result of 30 years of relying on the religious right for votes.
You guys made this monster. Now you can't control it.
Yeah, it's pretty sad when Goldwater today likely would be called a RINO or squish.
Say what you will about his policies, but Goldwater at least had a brain and wasn't afraid to use his reason more than his emotions.
Christ, even Reagan, for all the hatred of him from the far left, was pretty good at trying to charm and work with the other side. He was friends with Ted Kennedy, for godsakes.
The GOP has decided to be reactionary and emotional--nothing more, nothing less. Yeah, that always works out well, even when the other side is, as usual, so damn good as shooting itself in the feet about once a week.
First instance of real political violence from the right--probably against low-hanging and relatively un-secured fruit such as a Dem congressman--likely will happen before Thanksgiving, I fear. Make no mistake, something will happen before too long.
And then the right-wingers will cry Reichstag*!!! The script is already written.
**contrary to popular myth, an insane Dutch tradesman who fancied himself a Communist really did set the Reichstag on fire in 1933, not the Nazis, even though the Nazis exploited the event.
Ah, Godwins Law :)
A law, I believe the GOP is now trying to put on the books.
I do have a real fear that something awful and violent is coming. When George Tiller was murdered that thug O'Reilly barely skipped a beat.
The right, as personified by Masked Marauder (which is my gay porn name) is just stomping around like a petulant child who has been sent to bed without dinner. For 12 years they had the house and senate. For half that time they had the white house too. And they managed to steer the ship of state right onto the rocks.
Now they're out of power, their leadership is either very old (McCain, Cheney) very incompetent (Steele) of completely out of their minds (Bachman, Palin) I think I see why they are mad.
I agree, some loon, pumped up by months of hateful venom on Fox news and talk radio, is going to do something awful and violent. They already killed a doctor (in his church!) so I shudder to think what they have in mind.
By the by, for all the crazies on the left, the most ardent nuts I know wanted bush impeached and tried according to the law. No one was talking about blood and liberty and death panels and slitting their wrists for a blood-oath to fight.
That's the difference between left and right in this country.
So because I don't immediately respond, I lose the debate? Funny. I am going to have to try that tactic.
Stealth - you're right, those items are not on the link you provide because they changed the damn thing. It appears that there were a few objections to their attempted indoctrination and end-around to reach the children without going through their parents. Here are two quotes from the original memo: 1) "Are we able to do what President Obama is asking of us?" 2) "What specific job is he asking me to do?" Give me a break, people. If a Republican were doing this, you would be screaming louder than you already are.
You are right. A few lines from a DoE press release just seals the case that the President is an Socialist Kenyan who plans to set up FEMA reeducation centers as part of the effort to turn real Americans (you know, the ones with pale complexions, shotgun racks and who live in the sunnier areas of the country) into Communists who give the Nazi salute on command, and who put up no objections when the call to prayer rings out five times a day from government-sponsored mosques. Oh, and they will watch football--we still call it soccer, but not for long if Obama gets his way--and start to measure things in godless meters, not feet, which is what Jesus would prefer we use, as the distance to heaven is still measured according to the whims of some long-dead British king. Get ready for the apocalypse.
Or something like that. I've given up trying to find the logic among all the pointless paranoia dreamt up by willfully ignorant people (who, oddly, hardly peeped about Medicare Part D or the billions wasted in Iraq so that we could kick some Arab butt, or even the warrentless wiretaps instituted by Bush that violated the Constitution.)
Stealth - you're right, those items are not on the link you provide because they changed the damn thing.
So give us a link to a copy of the original, unchanged document. Simple enough to do right? I'm sure someone saved it to prove their point. So, link please. Or should we just take your word on it?
Can I see your birth certificate?
Stealth,
Masked Marauder has basically given away now the fact that he's a birther which basically means he's a racist unstable, village idiot. I think I'll just ignore him now. There's no arguing with that kind of lunatic, any evidence to the contrary just enforces the belief in the conspiracy.
I am just enjoying the hell out of this. You people are hysterically ranting about the GOP and complaining about the GOP's hysterical rantings. THis is priceless. I think the real problem you have with the American people is that they are not rolling over and allowing Obama to function as a Dictator. Matilda, its funny how you complain about accusations of socialism/marxism/fascism and then call me a Stalinist.
Take a step back and look at your posts. This started as an article about Obama's approval rating and you people launch into a full attack on the GOP bogeyman and paranoid fears of assassinations. Then you highlight all of the supposed right-wing violence that has occurred, fully ignoring that most violence has been perpetrated by leftists like Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, the Unabomber, etc.
You libs might want to learn how to defend ideas rather than solely relying on attacking/demonizing the opposition. That works when you are out of power, but it doesnt work so well when you are in control.
But please, keep going.
Take a step back and look at your posts. This started as an article about Obama's approval rating and you people launch into a full attack on the GOP bogeyman and paranoid fears of assassinations.
I believe the first attack launched was yours, friend.
"I am just enjoying the hell out of this. "
I have no doubt. I think we are all enjoying this, or why would keep entertaining each other.
Do you think you are the only person who likes to debate and poke the other side?
Why do right-wingers always, in mid-debate, usually have to proclaim how much they are "enjoying the hell out of it?" Is this a rule from the Bircher handbook? Are you unsure whether you are having fun or not?
Do you announce your enjoyment during other activities? Sports? Sex? Watching the the latest episode of "According to Jim"? Doing shots? Snorting coke? Jacking off? Watching birds copulate?
". I think the real problem you have with the American people is that they are not rolling over and allowing Obama to function as a Dictator."
REALLY? You are that fucking sure of yourself?
Who the fuck said they wanted a dictator? Show me ... I'll wait. Feel free to check other blogs, too. Go ahead, there is no time limit.
Oh, you can't? You mean you are trying to peddle more low-grade bullshit?
You are fighting half with us--the supposed disciples of Obama--and half with your own shadowy insecurities, it seems. I'd work on that. Maybe your health insurance would cover therapy. If not, well, you have only yourself to blame, right?
Wow, you are amazing. From looking at my posts, you are able to ascertain that I am "fighting with my shadowy insecurities." Are you a psychiatrist?
I just love that you recommend therapy for me while you people are the ones looking over your shoulder for right-wing militia members about to execute an attack. Perhaps you should take your own advice.
Nobody SAID they want a "dictator", but you people act appalled that people oppose Obama's big government policies. You think just because he was elected President we should bow down to him and sit here while he nationalizes companies, hands out stimulus money to his friends, and appoints Czars who are 9/11 Truthers.
What are we supposed to think of this? Obama had to have known he is a Truther. Is Obama a Truther as well? I think these are questions that need to be asked. What did Obama know and when did he know it?
"Nobody SAID they want a "dictator", but you people act appalled that people oppose Obama's big government policies. "
" I think the real problem you have with the American people is that they are not rolling over and allowing Obama to function as a Dictator. "
You can't even keep your bullshit straight for two posts.
"You think just because he was elected President we should bow down to him and sit here while he nationalizes companies, hands out stimulus money to his friends, and appoints Czars who are 9/11 Truthers."
Yes, that is exactly what I think. I also think we should all covert to Communism/Nazism and pray five times a day.
As far as "hands out stimulus money to his friends,"--I do have serious disagreements on this issue--but it was both Clinton and Bush who basically made the White House a branch office of Goldman Sachs.
Seriously, I hope the right-wing revolution comes (which is won't, because all the wanna-be Sam Adams out there are all talk), I look forward to street fighting against you morons. Not all "liberals"--you seem to think we are all libs--are afraid of or ignorant about firearms, my friend, especially those of use who grew up in hunting families or who have military training.
What are we supposed to think of this? Obama had to have known he is a Truther. Is Obama a Truther as well? I think these are questions that need to be asked. What did Obama know and when did he know it?
Lets take a step back. Let me ask you a question or two
-How would you reform health care?
-How would you have secured/stimulated the economy?
You don't have to outline a whole strategem, just some ideas.
Why do I ask this? Because rather than lurching from boogeyman to boogeyman (Obama indoctrinates kids! 9/11 truthers! Socialism! Ah!) just try to spell out where you disagree, simple really.
Here's Al Franken (oh noes! Liberal!) talking to some conservative folks at the Minnesota state fair. Just people, talking. No name calling, no boogeymen, no shouting "SOZIALZM! NAZZZI! SHUT UP!" or such.
This is how we can talk, this is how we can debate. But the right has chosen to panic and cry apocalypse. And our nation is all the poorer for it.
You think just because he was elected President we should bow down to him and sit here while he nationalizes companies
Which companies did he nationalize Masked Marauder?
Eagerly waiting.
*The US so far has fought two wars that kept Texas in the Union, including one where the then Republic of Texas all but begged the US for help against a then-imperialistic Mexico (go ahead, look it up). If Texas really tries to leave again, I say nuke 'em and call it a day. I'm sick of fighting over Texas. Yeah, Austin will be gone, but Austin hasn't been all that great since the mid 1990s. We can spirit Willie Nelson out by helicopter, I guess.
--- Best comment of the day, especially the Willie Nelson rescue :)
I think the problem here is that Democrats (at least at the national level) are simply incapable of governing. Their playbook will tell you how to smear the opposition (and they can be very good at it) from the outside, but when the time comes for them to actually sell their policies, they fall flat on their faces.
If you disagree, just take look at this post and the comments, and how it has devolved into attacks on Republicans, Conservatives and Christians. I think it helps proves my point. There's comparatively little discussion of what Democrats need to do to get their message across....just more of the same tired rhetoric that they used when Republicans controlled the White House.
Actually, it's almost laughable that Obama can't get health care through, given the political capital he had coming into office, and majorities in the House and Senate that Democrats haven't seen for decades.
devolved?
are you saying the posts by "Masked Marauder" were rational and intelligent and the replies to him were not? You're kidding, right?
As for the Democratic Party playbook you speak of, I thought the Republicans were the masters of FUD and swiftboating and failing because, y'know, Republicans suck at government because they do not believe in government. while the Democratic Party, when in power, act like a teenager borrowing their father's car because they're afraid of having spines.
At least 3 people posted here complaining about the Democrat majority's inaction and wishy washiness. You can ad me to that list too. So please try again Mss2400. Also, since you and Masked Marauder don't quite get it: Those critical of the mouth breathing birther/tea party mobs are not all Democrats or fans of Obama. I myself am neither.
"I think the problem here is that Democrats (at least at the national level) are simply incapable of governing. "
I agree, to a point. The Dems have proven themselves for decades the masters of the circular firing squad. Obama needs to show more fight, to say the least.
But I would broaden your point and ask: Is the country, at its present moment, really able to be governed? I am not talking anarchy, but rather the apparent paralysis of our political leaders and federal, state and local bureaucracies, to rise to present challenges. For instance, there is a very close and clear relationship between revenue and income, and though the majority of Americans for the past 30+ years have resisted real cuts in entitlements, defense and other programs, those same Americans have resisted all calls for significant revenue increases--otherwise known as tax hikes. That is a massive contradiction at the heart of our system.
Obama's ratings are down because he fucked up the health care debate by being too vague in the beginning and letting the GOP "fill in the blanks," so to speak. It's that simple.
But I think the bigger problem in the health care debate and the country in general is that conservatives and Republicans need to get over it. Barack Obama is our president. He was freely elected. The same folks who held up "Sore/Loserman" signs after the 2000 election debacle need to follow their own advice, calm down, and come back to the table so we can have rational discussions again.
Oh, and Masked Marauder, please don't pretend we're all Obama sycophants, because we're not.
Oh, right. You people really critical of Obama.
May I ask - why do you care whether or not Republicans come to the table to discuss healthcare? You don't need them to pass the bill. You liberals rip them all day long, why would you want them contaminating this beautiful piece of legislation? You need to stop your own people from wandering off the reservation. If it is such a fantastic plan and morons like me are voting against our best interests (as you libs love to say), just pass it and sit back while it works wonders and produces a health care utopia, which you can then claim credit for.
I think the only reason you talk about Republicans coming to the table is to provide political cover for Democrats who vote for this abomination.
May I ask - why do you care whether or not Republicans come to the table to discuss healthcare? You don't need them to pass the bill.
I agree, I think Obama should ram universal healthcare right down their throats....
But he wont. Him and (all of D.C. on both sides of the aisle) were bought by insurance/pharma lobbyists and they'll keep up with this charade until some milquetoast "reform" goes through.
Another reason why I didn't vote for Obama.
Yeah, so about that original press release on the public school telecast... any sign of that coming down the road anywhere? I'll just wait here, mkay?
You keep implying that I'm a liberal -- I may be on some issues, but I'm not on others. But I understand that it's easier for you to make your breathless ranting arguments if you label me as such.
Masked Marauder, where is the link someone asked you for the original memo? I want to read it for myself.
Yeah, I'm kinda still waiting over here but I'm starting to think he won't let me see the proof he has. C'mon MM, be a pal. Show me the proof. Pretend it's a birth certificate... Doesn't Druge have it? Rush? Beck? No, wait...G. Gordon Liddy! I bet he has it. Ask him.
(the sound of crickets)
Try Google. Its a great search engine. With the time you guys have spent asking me to provide you with a link, you could have easily found it yourselves. Or at least an article about the changes that were made. I have seen a few of these articles today.
I have seen a few of these articles today.
Good. Then how about pointing us to one of them? Just one. It's really simple. Just a link. You don't even have to format it, just cut and paste. It's a great way to bolster your argument.
And I agree. Google is a great search engine. That's how I found my proof and presented it to you. Sigh. Only wish someone else would have the courtesy to do the same. Or the balls. Either one.
Since MM isn't capable of supporting his own argument, empty as it may be, here is the changed and original text.
No mention of hanging up quotes. The original language just asked kids to (gasp!) write letters to the President!
Letters they would never send.
Look, crazy right wing, I'm sorry to tell you, Obama is our president. That means he gets to talk to people, and if you disagree, you can respond. And you can vote against him in 2012.
Paln/Beck 2012!
Haha. Always comes back to Republicans. You are incapable of putting together a coherent argument for or against a policy supported by facts and/or logic. All you do is attack the opposition. Look how large of a portion of your comments you devoted to attacking, you people are just obsessed. I guess that is all you have when you can't defend your own ideals.
Meanwhile, we have a President who is bypassing the Constitution by appointing Czars, who earn an average salary of $172k and have a full staff. We have already found one who is a Truther, I can't wait to hear other beliefs some of them have.
We have liberals biting off fingers of town hall protesters who don't agree with them.
Can't wait to see what else he has in store.
So do you libs plan on joining OBama's brown shirt "civilian national security force?" Wouldn't surprise me.
Stealth, you don't want to mess with Liddy :)
Yeah, befuddled old men who get raked over the coals on national television without one fact to back them up scare the hell out of me.
I'm serious. Liddy (as screwed up as he is) has had people "taken care of". Dude went to jail for Nixon, of all people.
I don't think he has that kind of clout anymore, or we'd be wondering where Chris Matthews disappeared to right now.
Masked Marauder, where is the link someone asked you for the original memo? I want to read it for myself.
"Try Google. Its a great search engine. With the time you guys have spent asking me to provide you with a link, you could have easily found it yourselves. Or at least an article about the changes that were made. I have seen a few of these articles today."
Can you share the link? I didn't ask for Google. Your argument holds a lot more water if you can show me the doc.
Link, please. The full document. Not a snippet from your favorite website.
Stop looking for Masked Manhandler to provide "facts". Everyone knows that reality has a well-known liberal bias.
The original and changed text.
Well, its quitting time so I'm heading out. Masked Marauder, I'll leave you with this. I'm not an Obama supporter, and I'm not a "wing nut" - I work, pay my taxes and try to be a good citizen. I believe the majority of the problems in this country are due to both parties and career politicians.
That said, you haven't backed up your statements. You encourage me to "Google" it. What a cop out.
Here's a fun story I like to tell people. Lyndon Johnson was running for office in Texas and was behind in the polls to his opponent, a well known and respected farmer. Lyndon decided to try a dirty trick. He instructed his campaign manager to start a rumor in town that the farmer was fucking his pigs. "That's horrible We'll never convince anyone that he's doing that!" the campaign manager cried.
"Yeah," said Johnson "but let's make him deny it."
You're no better, MM.
Geez, I cut out of work early to go drink too many beers, and you attack me like this while I am away? I am hurt.
The administration changed the lesson plan. It is a fact. It happened and there are articles all over the internet about it. Why do I need to post an article about it? It would be one thing if I cited the results of an obscure study and you wanted to see that, then I would post something. Obama put out a study guide, people complained, and it was changed. It happened.
So I heard the Sox won last night but I'm not sure I believe it. Can you please post an article that proves it?
"Why do I need to post an article about it? It would be one thing if I cited the results of an obscure study and you wanted to see that, then I would post something."
Because you said in the original memo that Obama quotes were to be hung around the classrooms. I want to read it myself and see if that is the truth. Post the link.
Unless you're lying about it. Which ticks me off to no end, because that's how policies are being argued in this country, and we're all getting screwed as a result.
Sox score: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/gameflash/2009/09/04/25784_recap.html